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#14896376
The UK ultimatum in the case of poisoning Sergei Skripal and his daughter Julia expired: Moscow did not respond to it. The European Union, the Commonwealth of Nations, the NATO spoke out against Russia, accused of the chemical warfare in Britain.

On Monday, March 12, Theresa May, appearing before the Parliament, said that it was "highly likely" Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack. According to her, Skripal was poisoned with nerve agent called "Novichok". May concluded that if Moscow is not responsible for the incident, the poison got into the hands of others, and summoned Russia to provide an explanation. In case Moscow ignores London's demands, May has promised to take countermeasures and to regard the poisoning of Skripal as "the illegal use of force by the Russian state against Britain."

At the same time, the US Congress Senate is trying to push the president to consider the issue of imposing new sanctions on Russia. Senator Robert Menendez says that the poisoning of Skripal is the reason for such a step. In addition, according to the lawmaker, President Donald Trump should consider the issue of including Russia in the list of countries that sponsor terrorism.

Currently the situation in the US seems to be extremely embarrasing, especially concerning Tillerson's resignation. Now it appears that Tillerson's support in the "Skripal case" of Theresa May has been the last straw that has exhausted Trump's patience. All these events occur when the Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives has decided to find Trump's team innocent.

The Times reported that London could conduct a massive cyber attack against Russia's government computer networks or sites connected with the "troll factory". Measures against RT, a boycott of the World Cup and sanctions against Russian businessmen are also being considered.

At a time when the global information hysteria about the poisoning of Skripal, which is developing by Great Britain, everyone should think about why do they provoke the most powerful country in nuclear weapons. Doubtful claims to the Kremlin may result in APOCALYPSE. Any accusations, especially against another state, must be supported by particular evidence, not by assumptions and conjectures. Searching evidence of Russia's participation in the crimes incriminated to it, one can peruse the Internet, but he or she will be greatly surprised, finding only the fantastic assumptions of prosecutors and nothing more.
#14896397
CharlesLonsdale wrote:The UK ultimatum in the case of poisoning Sergei Skripal and his daughter Julia expired: Moscow did not respond to it. The European Union, the Commonwealth of Nations, the NATO spoke out against Russia, accused of the chemical warfare in Britain.

On Monday, March 12, Theresa May, appearing before the Parliament, said that it was "highly likely" Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack. According to her, Skripal was poisoned with nerve agent called "Novichok". May concluded that if Moscow is not responsible for the incident, the poison got into the hands of others, and summoned Russia to provide an explanation. In case Moscow ignores London's demands, May has promised to take countermeasures and to regard the poisoning of Skripal as "the illegal use of force by the Russian state against Britain."

At the same time, the US Congress Senate is trying to push the president to consider the issue of imposing new sanctions on Russia. Senator Robert Menendez says that the poisoning of Skripal is the reason for such a step. In addition, according to the lawmaker, President Donald Trump should consider the issue of including Russia in the list of countries that sponsor terrorism.

Currently the situation in the US seems to be extremely embarrasing, especially concerning Tillerson's resignation. Now it appears that Tillerson's support in the "Skripal case" of Theresa May has been the last straw that has exhausted Trump's patience. All these events occur when the Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives has decided to find Trump's team innocent.

The Times reported that London could conduct a massive cyber attack against Russia's government computer networks or sites connected with the "troll factory". Measures against RT, a boycott of the World Cup and sanctions against Russian businessmen are also being considered.

At a time when the global information hysteria about the poisoning of Skripal, which is developing by Great Britain, everyone should think about why do they provoke the most powerful country in nuclear weapons. Doubtful claims to the Kremlin may result in APOCALYPSE. Any accusations, especially against another state, must be supported by particular evidence, not by assumptions and conjectures. Searching evidence of Russia's participation in the crimes incriminated to it, one can peruse the Internet, but he or she will be greatly surprised, finding only the fantastic assumptions of prosecutors and nothing more.


Before we blame Russia about everything we need to ask ourselves some very simple questions:

1) Why would Russia do this to a spy who was traded for another spy 8 years ago? I simply don't get it.
2) Why use chemical weapons and not polonium again?
3) Why use an agent that everybody knows about?

Etc. There are many questions that i can't answer myself. Do we even have proof that it was the Russians? I mean like physical evidence of how it happened and who did it? What if somebody is framing Russia, i guess we just don't care?
#14896405
JohnRawls wrote:1) Why would Russia do this to a spy who was traded for another spy 8 years ago? I simply don't get it.
2) Why use chemical weapons and not polonium again?
3) Why use an agent that everybody knows about?

1) Possibly they later decided they wanted to intimidate other Russians who might work for their enemies. It has also been said that Skripal knows Christopher Steele, and might even have been involved in the production of his Trump dossier, which implicated various Russians with state connections.
2) Because access to food and drink may not have been possible. This agent was apparently smeared on the door handles of his car.
3) It's somewhat obscure; perhaps they thought the symptoms wouldn't be definite enough to be traced to that nerve agent, or that they'd get samples in time. However, given the target, the Russian state (or players with influence in it) were always going to be the chief suspects.
#14896485
CORBYN at PMQ's asked MAY the following:-

"How has she responded to the Russian Government's request for a sample of the agent used in Salisbury attack to run its own tests?


"Has high-resolution trace analysis been run on a sample of the nerve agent and has that revealed any evidence as to the location of its production or the identity of its perpetrators?

I never heard the response from MAY, but could it have been something like, "Really !, does the R't Hon Gentleman not know when something is made in 'Great' Britain, as always, he is running this country down, in this case our exports", duh.?

But, honestly, PUTIN is 100% correct in his request for 'evidence', as any country, this one included, could manufacture the nerve agent, particularly when Porton Down would probably have experimented with that cocktail, NOT that they would advertise or admit it.

The above is why PUTIN is correct, the 'evidence' could have been manufactured here in order to discredit PUTIN by doing a 'copycat' attempted murder of the father & daughter before blaming Russia.

PUTIN should level accusations against MI6 & May's government.

In this country, we believe a person accused of a 'crime' is presumed 'innocent' until proven otherwise,
The same presumption should be there when a country is accused of a 'crime'.

The existence of a nerve agent proves just that, it is NOT evidence that would stand up in any court of 'law' without proof beyond reasonable doubt, of which there is NONE.

That the nerve agent was a Russian creation, is not proof or 'evidence' of it's use by that government or state.

It's no surprise that TRUMP jumped on the anti-Russian bandwagon, the UK-USA governments regularly engage in such activities.
It happened under OBAMA when he visited Germany spouting anti-Russian rhetoric over the UKRAINE events, shortly followed by our defence minister & chancellor of the exchequer releasing £50 BILLION to pay for 2 aircraft carriers.

This is all too predictable from a 'Tory' government that cannot accept that it was the Soviet Union that played the principle role in defeating Hitler & they have never recognised the sacrifices of the Soviets in defeating fascism.
Last edited by Nonsense on 14 Mar 2018 22:34, edited 1 time in total.
#14896518
JohnRawls wrote:What if somebody is framing Russia, i guess we just don't care?


Yes, that's what's expected of you from the politicians and MSM. Just accept what politicians like Theresa May tell you, without evidence.

That's how stupid they think people are.

And they're right.

I'm with Corbyn, this is bullshit until evidence is provided, but it's obvious there isn't any because we would've seen it by now. This is like the short version of the Russians colluded / meddled in our elections, but not really it was all about some memes on Facebook that caused the outcome of the US elections and, and wait there's more if you give us time to make some new shit up...

:lol:
#14896575
At this point you have to be soft in the head to believe anything coming from Western governments about Russia. There's obviously an unstated agenda at work here that requires the demonization of Russia.
#14896582
My first impression is NOT that Putin et al are wicked, but that they did a very poor job in managing the situation. I mean, how come we don't hear the West suffering such a problem, at least not regularly? AFAIK there was only one time that the West revealed to suffer a serious loss of intelligence personnel elsewhere, in this case China.

And I don't believe political killing without a reason. If the traitors do not possess highly confidential and strategically important information there's no point to kill them, and as a former spymaster I am sure Putin knows more about this than we do. Traitors possessing such sensitive information can also be a reason. And if this is true, this can be seen as a systematic fail for Russia.
#14896591
JohnRawls wrote:Etc. There are many questions that i can't answer myself. Do we even have proof that it was the Russians? I mean like physical evidence of how it happened and who did it? What if somebody is framing Russia, i guess we just don't care?

Well, it's an odd case. First, if they are sure Russia did this, why don't they explain how and why. What is the motive?

Prosthetic Conscience wrote:1) Possibly they later decided they wanted to intimidate other Russians who might work for their enemies. It has also been said that Skripal knows Christopher Steele, and might even have been involved in the production of his Trump dossier, which implicated various Russians with state connections.

Well, retaliation is a motive. The phony dossier and all the Russia memes led to sanctions against Russia. So I can see why people would want to get payback for that. The problem is that it's not clear if it is the Russian state or if it's some Russian mafia/oligarch actors.

Sivad wrote:At this point you have to be soft in the head to believe anything coming from Western governments about Russia. There's obviously an unstated agenda at work here that requires the demonization of Russia.

That does seem to be the case, but they seem to have a difficult time explaining why Russia is so bad. From my perspective, the DNC was hacked by Seth Rich, and they more or less had him killed and then blamed his death on a mugging while blaming the hack of their server on the Russians. Just as May isn't providing Russia with forensic evidence to review, the DNC didn't provide the FBI with its server to review.

Patrickov wrote:And I don't believe political killing without a reason. If the traitors do not possess highly confidential and strategically important information there's no point to kill them, and as a former spymaster I am sure Putin knows more about this than we do.

I'm more inclined to think it is a hit by an oligarch that suffers from US sanctions if the victims were indeed sources for Christopher Steele.
#14896594
blackjack21 wrote:I'm more inclined to think it is a hit by an oligarch that suffers from US sanctions if the victims were indeed sources for Christopher Steele.


Which makes my first sentence stand: Putin and his team do not manage the situation well.
#14896595
A new article from Disobedient Media titled “Meet The Cabal That Are Framing Domestic American Activism As ‘Russian Influence’ And ‘Fake News’” shines a much-needed spotlight on the neocon think tank Alliance For Securing Democracy, which has been cited over and over and over again by mainstream news outlets recently as a reliable source of authority on all matters pertaining to Russia’s alleged interference in US democracy. Their assertions about Russia get advanced as unquestionable facts by these outlets, and before you know it everyday Americans are surrounded by screens chiming in unison that there is a hostile foreign power aggressively working to control their minds.

The problem, of course, is that this extremely influential think tank is chock full of neocons, war hawks and deep state cronies. The article details the toxic talent lineup behind this operation including Kristol, Michael Chertoff, Michael McFaul, and Michael Morell. These men have all been consistently on the wrong side of history regarding foreign policy issues and have built punditry careers advocating horrific things; Morell for example advocated the covert slaughter of Iranians and Russians in Syria not long ago on national television. As the article’s pseudonymous author Adam Carter notes, the process by which this organization reaches its findings is fundamentally secretive and could easily be manipulated to conclude whatever these psychopaths want.

Want to try some quick citizens’ journalism? Do a Google search for “Alliance For Securing Democracy”, click “news”, and document how many mainstream outlets have cited this pernicious warmongering think tank in recent weeks. These people are shaping the way Americans think and vote, and they all have the same neoconservative goal: manufacturing public support for escalations with Russia, with the ultimate goal of crippling the Russia-China tandem and securing the global dominance of the US power establishment.

#14896614
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:1) Possibly they later decided they wanted to intimidate other Russians who might work for their enemies. It has also been said that Skripal knows Christopher Steele, and might even have been involved in the production of his Trump dossier, which implicated various Russians with state connections.
2) Because access to food and drink may not have been possible. This agent was apparently smeared on the door handles of his car.
3) It's somewhat obscure; perhaps they thought the symptoms wouldn't be definite enough to be traced to that nerve agent, or that they'd get samples in time. However, given the target, the Russian state (or players with influence in it) were always going to be the chief suspects.


That is kidna my point. Russia knew they would get blamed one way or the other. So i do not see why a retired spy on pension is worth all of this. Even if he helped with the dossier, then what is the point to do it now.

On top of that, you cant simply blame Russia for the attack because they invented the nerve agent. I mean, by this logic, any VX attack should be blamed on Britain etc :eh:
#14896616
Nonsense wrote:CORBYN at PMQ's asked MAY the following:-

"How has she responded to the Russian Government's request for a sample of the agent used in Salisbury attack to run its own tests?


"Has high-resolution trace analysis been run on a sample of the nerve agent and has that revealed any evidence as to the location of its production or the identity of its perpetrators?

Exactly, at this point, Jeremy Corbyn is the only politician with integrity in the UK. He was one of a small number of Labour MPs opposing the Iraq war. History has proven him right, yet he is once again vilified by a cross-party campaign of neocon war hawks and the general public that is driven into a jingoistic frenzy by the British press.

Anybody capable of independent thinking can easily determine that Theresa May is lying all the way:

1. If the chemical weapons lab at Porton Down can identify the substance as a Novichok-type nerve agent, then the lab has its structural formula and can produce this nerve agent a mere 6 miles from the site of the incident. Hence, Theresa May is lying. The substance can come from the UK and many other countries.

2. If the lab at Porton Down can determine that the substance was produced in Russia, then it has samples of Novichoks actually produced in Russia it can use for comparison by high-resolution trace analysis. Hence, Theresa May is lying. There are stockpiles in the UK and elsewhere outside Russia.

3. If the UK has Novichok toxins, then the UK is in violation of international law and not Russia, as Theresa May claims.

In fact, Russia destroyed its stockpiles of chemical weapons last September, while the US keeps its own chemical weapons in violation of international agreements.

4. Putin may be the greatest villain in the world, but Russia has no motive. Neocon war hawks have motive, means and a track record of false flag operations, like Saddam's WMDs, for the purpose of regime change.

5. In the last 50 years, Russia (the Soviet Union) has never even admitted the existence of Novichok nerve toxins, let alone disclose its chemical structure. Why would the FSB deliver an example free house to a site near the UK's chemical weapons lab, if it doesn't exist outside of Russia? Why would the FSB supply the enemy with an actual example of such a secrete weapon? It is mind-boggling. :lol:

6. Neocon war hawks also have a long record of extra-judicial killings by drones and other means.

7. Theresa May's government is refusing to provide the OPCW (Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons) with a sample of the toxin. The OPCW is the UN body in the Hague that is the sole international authority to decide on the matter. If she weren't lying, there would be no reason to prevent an independent investigation.

8. The UK has given shelter to a large number of Russian criminals, oligarchs, spies, dissidents, and sundry shady characters. That opposing groups of oligarchs or criminals kill each other is the most ordinary thing in the world. If Theresa May wanted to do something about that, she would expel these troublemakers and confiscate their stolen wealth in the British tax havens, instead of accepting donations to the Tory party from these oligarchs.

Fun fact, we don't even know if the Novichoks actually exist:

The Novichok Story Is Indeed Another Iraqi WMD Scam 89
14 Mar, 2018

As recently as 2016 Dr Robin Black, Head of the Detection Laboratory at the UK’s only chemical weapons facility at Porton Down, a former colleague of Dr David Kelly, published in an extremely prestigious scientific journal that the evidence for the existence of Novichoks was scant and their composition unknown.

In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, ‘Novichoks’ (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the ‘Foliant’ programme, with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has been published. (Black, 2016)

Robin Black. (2016) Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry

Yet now, the British Government is claiming to be able instantly to identify a substance which its only biological weapons research centre has never seen before and was unsure of its existence. Worse, it claims to be able not only to identify it, but to pinpoint its origin. Given Dr Black’s publication, it is plain that claim cannot be true.

The world’s international chemical weapons experts share Dr Black’s opinion. The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is a UN body based in the Hague. In 2013 this was the report of its Scientific Advisory Board, which included US, French, German and Russian government representatives and on which Dr Black was the UK representative:

[The SAB] emphasised that the definition of toxic chemicals in the Convention would cover all potential candidate chemicals that might be utilised as chemical weapons. Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to “Novichoks”. The name “Novichok” is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of “Novichoks”. (OPCW, 2013)

OPCW: Report of the Scientific Advisory Board on developments in science and technology for the Third Review Conference 27 March 2013

Indeed the OPCW was so sceptical of the viability of “novichoks” that it decided – with US and UK agreement – not to add them nor their alleged precursors to its banned list. In short, the scientific community broadly accepts Mirzayanov was working on “novichoks” but doubts he succeeded.

Given that the OPCW has taken the view the evidence for the existence of “Novichoks” is dubious, if the UK actually has a sample of one it is extremely important the UK presents that sample to the OPCW. Indeed the UK has a binding treaty obligation to present that sample to OPCW. Russa has – unreported by the corporate media – entered a demand at the OPCW that Britain submit a sample of the Salisbury material for international analysis.

Yet Britain refuses to submit it to the OPCW.

Why?

A second part of May’s accusation is that “Novichoks” could only be made in certain military installations. But that is also demonstrably untrue. If they exist at all, Novichoks were allegedly designed to be able to be made at bench level in any commercial chemical facility – that was a major point of them. The only real evidence for the existence of Novichoks was the testimony of the ex-Soviet scientist Mizayanov. And this is what Mirzayanov actually wrote.

One should be mindful that the chemical components or precursors of A-232 or its binary version novichok-5 are ordinary organophosphates that can be made at commercial chemical companies that manufacture such products as fertilizers and pesticides.

Vil S. Mirzayanov, “Dismantling the Soviet/Russian Chemical Weapons Complex: An Insider’s View,” in Amy E. Smithson, Dr. Vil S. Mirzayanov, Gen Roland Lajoie, and Michael Krepon, Chemical Weapons Disarmament in Russia: Problems and Prospects, Stimson Report No. 17, October 1995, p. 21.

It is a scientific impossibility for Porton Down to have been able to test for novichoks, without possessing some to develop the tests. As Dr Black has revealed Porton Down had never seen any Russian novichok, they cannot have a test for it unless they synthesised some themselves to develop the tests. And if they can synthesise it, so can many others, not just the Russians.

And finally – Mirzayanov is an Uzbek name and the novichok programme, assuming it existed, was in the Soviet Union but far away from modern Russia, at Nukus in modern Uzbekistan. I have visited the Nukus chemical weapons site myself. It was dismantled and made safe and all the stocks destroyed and the equipment removed by the American government, as I recall finishing while I was Ambassador there. There has in fact never been any evidence that any “novichok” ever existed in Russia itself.

To summarise:

1) Porton Down has acknowledged in publications it has never seen any Russian “novichoks”. The UK government has absolutely no “fingerprint” information that can safely attribute this substance to Russia.

2) Until now, neither Porton Down nor the world’s experts at the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) were convinced “Novichoks” even exist.

3) The UK is refusing to provide a sample to the OPCW.

4) “Novichoks” were specifically designed to be able to be manufactured from common ingredients on any scientific bench. The Americans dismantled and studied the facility that allegedly developed them. It is completely untrue only the Russians could make them, if anybody can.

5) The “Novichok” programme was in Uzbekistan not in Russia. Its legacy was inherited by the Americans during their alliance with Karimov, not by the Russians.


Craig Murray Historian, Former Ambassador, Human Rights Activist


PS: It's too bad that our chief conspiracy theorists @Rugoz, @layman, @foxdemon, et. al, have fucked their own mind to the point of being incapable of thinking.
#14896621
@Atlantis i see you are as rude as always.

Funny that I am the brainwashed drone for thinking Russia most likely but you take your default position with 100 percent certainty as always.

FYI the “mainstream” is very much now the alternate narrative. People Are rallying around the Russian podition in their droves.

Not that the likes of Boris going on tv claiming “overwhelming evidence” is helpful. There isn’t.

He is right though how they are both denying and admitting g this in equal measure. Just look at the smug and sarcastic reactions and how it’s playing over there. It’s classic Russian smoke and mirrors and they are laughing their asses off at all the disputes they create. On the Russian street there is little doubt. They don’t trust their own media but they trust us less.

That is what I think this was for mainly for.

- to reenforce the Russian victim narrative and use conflict with the west to legitimise the regime

- to test the waters with a weakened uk

- to send a message to dissenters

- to create divisions within the west

- to divert attention from a lacklustre election

- to show strength and reach
#14896623
Londonistan will lose this battle. Only Russian assets of consequence in Londonistan are runaway oligarchs hostile to Putin. Meanwhile Britain's largest resource company owns 20% of gazprom/rosneft amounting to tens of billions of dollars, and has had choice dibs on arctic reserves. It might not soon-that is, if Londonistan tries to get cute. Dismissing diplomats is symbolic. Let's see if they want to play this game for real. China is itching to get britains russian resource shares and contracts.
#14896646
layman wrote:@Atlantis i see you are as rude as always.

Funny that I am the brainwashed drone for thinking Russia most likely but you take your default position with 100 percent certainty as always.

FYI the “mainstream” is very much now the alternate narrative. People Are rallying around the Russian podition in their droves.

Not that the likes of Boris going on tv claiming “overwhelming evidence” is helpful. There isn’t.

He is right though how they are both denying and admitting g this in equal measure. Just look at the smug and sarcastic reactions and how it’s playing over there. It’s classic Russian smoke and mirrors and they are laughing their asses off at all the disputes they create. On the Russian street there is little doubt. They don’t trust their own media but they trust us less.

That is what I think this was for mainly for.

- to reenforce the Russian victim narrative and use conflict with the west to legitimise the regime

- to test the waters with a weakened uk

- to send a message to dissenters

- to create divisions within the west

- to divert attention from a lacklustre election

- to show strength and reach



I find it amusing that Atlantis would cite Craig Murray and then accuse others of conspiracy theories.

Craig Murray was an ambassador but was forced to resign. He created the image that it was his outspoken defence of human rights that got him fired whereas the truth is he was caught in an affair with a Uzbek hooker. Diplomatic staff who do that get sacked for being a security risk.

Yet so many believe his self engrandizing story. Craig Murray epitomises contemporary British decadence.

Here’s a nice blog post about Murray’s past accusations.

http://hurryupharry.org/2007/06/29/ex-ambassador-craig-murray-is-a-conspiracy-nut/


Anyway, Russia did it. The threats about informants not being safe in the UK is telling. The reason why is that Mueller is getting close to some juicy goss and Putin wants to let people know it is more risky to talk to the FBI than to keep silent.
#14896653
Looks like German, France and the us are supporting the - I thought slightly premature - statement that Russia is to blame.

I suppose putin and Atlantis joint wish that Britain is isolated and punished is not quite universal yet.

Having said that, I doubt there will be any concrete actions.
#14896655
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:1) Possibly they later decided they wanted to intimidate other Russians who might work for their enemies. It has also been said that Skripal knows Christopher Steele, and might even have been involved in the production of his Trump dossier, which implicated various Russians with state connections.
2) Because access to food and drink may not have been possible. This agent was apparently smeared on the door handles of his car.
3) It's somewhat obscure; perhaps they thought the symptoms wouldn't be definite enough to be traced to that nerve agent, or that they'd get samples in time. However, given the target, the Russian state (or players with influence in it) were always going to be the chief suspects.


JohnRawls wrote:That is kidna my point. Russia knew they would get blamed one way or the other. So i do not see why a retired spy on pension is worth all of this. Even if he helped with the dossier, then what is the point to do it now.

No, I think you missed my point. It was the first sentence. Possibly they later decided they wanted to intimidate other Russians who might work for their enemies. It's not that they have some idea of 'justice', that involves killing him because they think the 'correct' state for him is 'dead'; they want to let others know that they still kill people for going against the Russian state.

On top of that, you cant simply blame Russia for the attack because they invented the nerve agent. I mean, by this logic, any VX attack should be blamed on Britain etc :eh:

Russia was not simply blamed because they invented this agent. They were blamed before anyone knew which agent it was, because of the target. Russia has a long history of killing defectors, so when attempt on the life of a Russian defector is made, you look at Russia. No one else has a motive. Putin still runs Russia by threatening and imprisoning his opponents. He wants them scared.
#14896657
Clearly the motive and opportunity Russia had makes it far too obviously a false flag attack.

Clearly this is some kind of conspiracy concocted by the governments of the UK, US, France, and Germany involving hundreds of investigators, state department officials, the thousands of staffers involved at every level of government in each of these governments all working together to pretend that this Mossad gas attack false flag was actually done by someone with a history of killing dissidents.

I never cease to be amazed that some on pofo's hatred for capitalism, western leadership, or whatever else makes them so willing to imagine that other states must therefore be the good guys. There are no good guys. Everyone is a villain. The only innocent people are the powerless, and the powerless do not run Russia.
#14896659
mikema63 wrote:Clearly the motive and opportunity Russia had makes it far too obviously a false flag attack.

Clearly this is some kind of conspiracy concocted by the governments of the UK, US, France, and Germany involving hundreds of investigators, state department officials, the thousands of staffers involved at every level of government in each of these governments all working together to pretend that this Mossad gas attack false flag was actually done by someone with a history of killing dissidents.

I never cease to be amazed that some on pofo's hatred for capitalism, western leadership, or whatever else makes them so willing to imagine that other states must therefore be the good guys. There are no good guys. Everyone is a villain. The only innocent people are the powerless, and the powerless do not run Russia.


Uk will have to present the case to the OPCW at some point. Let the OPCW decide honestly.

Putin has shown himself to be a rational actor for way to long. He simply does not do things like this without considering the consequences.
#14896660
It won't make any difference.

People were calling for the UN to decide whether or not Assad did the gas attacks and when they did declared them fake news.

Putin does understand the consequences. We will be shown to be largely impotent because we wont and can't take serious actions against the Russian state except at worst more sanctions which he could just threaten to cut off the gas to Europe over.

Putin knows exactly what position he's in, one where he can do this and basically get away with it with no real consequences to him or Russian state power. This is basically the lesson they got from Crimea and all the other crap they've pulled over the years.
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