Antifa again demonstrates its undemocratic nature - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14939340
Pants-of-dog wrote:You originally claimed that there were no reports of Patriot Prayer assaulting the police, and no reports of Patriot Prayer and Antifa clashing directly.

The complete text from your first article:

    Rocks and bottles flew through the air in Portland, Oregon, Saturday afternoon as a self-described libertarian group clashed with antifa counter-protesters.

    Police in heavy riot gear declared Patriot Prayer's rally in downtown Portland a civil disturbance and ordered everyone to leave, The Oregonian reported, after demonstrators were seen hurling projectiles into the crowds.

    "There will be a significant law enforcement presence in the area of the demonstration due to past threats and acts of violence," Portland police wrote in a statement earlier Saturday afternoon. "Persons attending any of the events should not bring any weapons or items that can be used as weapons to any of the events."

    Groups on opposites sides of a downtown street began hurling objects at each other.

    One side was chanting “USA!” "USA!" while the others chanted "fascists retreat," CNN reported.

    Portland police posted photos online of the weapons and objects seized from the crowds, many of which included the Confederate battle flag.

Please nite the bolded phrase. It clearly says that both sides engaged in violence. This directly contradicts your claim that there were no reports of Patriot Prayer and Antifa clashing directly.

Yes, my original post was partly to demonstrate how that article by the MSM(D) was a lie, that on-the-spot reports were that the violence was purely between AntiFA and the police. As it turned out, that report was a lie in detail because there was no violence between the two groups during the march, though there were some scattered clashes after the march ended and both groups broke up. And there was no reported violence between Patriot Prayer and the police at all, those marchers were actually cheering on the police that were protecting them.

And AntiFA was at it again this weekend, attacking law enforcement and the media when they were kept away from their preferred targets.

    First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
#14939370
Doug64 wrote:Yes, my original post was partly to demonstrate how that article by the MSM(D) was a lie, that on-the-spot reports were that the violence was purely between AntiFA and the police.


No. Your original claim was that the proto-fascists did not enageh in violence.

This claim has been shown to be wrong.

This new claim of yours would need evidence to support it. Please do so.

As it turned out, that report was a lie in detail because there was no violence between the two groups during the march, though there were some scattered clashes after the march ended and both groups broke up.


I have already shown evidence that this claim is wrong.

And there was no reported violence between Patriot Prayer and the police at all, those marchers were actually cheering on the police that were protecting them.


Yes, there is often collusion between proto-fascists and police.

And AntiFA was at it again this weekend, attacking law enforcement and the media when they were kept away from their preferred targets.


Please quote the text that suports these new claims.

    First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


Not only are you not speaking out for the people targeted by bigotry and oppression, but you are actually supoorting the peoole who want to take rights away from minorities and women, and accusing those who do speak out against them as being oppressors.

Finally, and most importantly, you have yet to support your claim that antifa did anything wrong.
#14939373
Obviously, the government staged the whole thing. It was a pointless diversion to make themselves feel better about losing to Donald Trump. Of course, they get cooperation from the police so that the police can get overtime pay. It's all a shakedown. The whole thing. From beginning to end.
#14943546
And AntiFA once again show their utter contempt for their nation and anyone that respects it -- even when they're on their side:

He brought an American flag to protest fascism in Portland. Then antifa attacked him

    Paul Welch came to the downtown protest Aug. 4 to let his political leanings be known.

    With pride he clutched his U.S. flag as he moved among the crowd of like-thinking demonstrators.

    Soon a group of black-clad anti-fascist protesters, also known as antifa, demanded he lose the flag, calling it a fascist symbol. Welch refused, and a tug-of-war ensued.

    It ended with Welch taking a club to the back of the head, lying on the ground in a pool of his own blood.

    Only Welch was not a Proud Boy, a Patriot Prayer supporter or among the other conservative activists who descended into the area that day, many from out of town.

    He was one of hundreds of progressive Portlanders who had turned out to oppose the right-wing rally held at the Tom McCall Waterfront Park.

    "I didn't come as a part of any one group," Welch said in an interview with The Oregonian/OregonLive. "I was just protesting outsiders coming here for their tacitly fascist event."

    Anger following the demonstration has largely been directed at Portland police, whose use of "less-lethal" riot-control weapons on counter-protesters hospitalized at least three people and injured several others.

    But others, like Welch, became targets of violence at the hands of protest participants, even as police kept rival political factions apart. A video taken of his attack has been viewed more than 800,000 times online.

    Many have assumed the tussle over a U.S. flag placed Welch squarely in the right-wing camp.

    Not so.

    "I had felt like showing that a liberal, free Portland — or any major city, really — is much more American and much more numerous and strong than any of these interloping groups," he said.

    A "slightly progressive leftist" by his telling, Welch is a registered Democrat in Oregon, voting records show. He cast his ballot for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 presidential primary and Hillary Clinton in the general election, he said.

    The 38-year-old line cook is also no stranger to street protests in Portland. He said he attended the Women's March held during the weekend of Donald Trump's inauguration.

    This summer, Welch, who works six days a week at a catering company, stopped by the Occupy ICE encampment on his days off to bring protesters water, toilet paper and sunblock, he said.

    He's no fan of Trump or the president's policies. Nor of Patriot Prayer, whose repeated rallies in Portland, Welch believes, have little purpose other than to inflame the city's liberal residents.

    "They're just offensive," he said.

    That is why Welch said he decided to show up to the counter-protest with an American flag, an emblem more common among the conservative activists than those who have demonstrated against them.

    "The right and certainly a lot of smaller groups like Patriot Prayer might rush to things like the flag and try to take it up as, 'This is our symbol exclusively,'" he said. "Part of my thinking was to take it back."

    Aside from a few odd looks, Welch did not encounter any problems when he joined hundreds of other counter-protesters who gathered at City Hall late that morning.

    In fact, Welch said, he saw several other people with American flags sprinkled among the group of progressives, union members and social justice activists.

    The trouble started as the throng began to march east along Southwest Salmon Street toward Naito Parkway about 12:30 p.m.

    As he carried his flag, two people dressed in black and covering their faces approached Welch and demanded he turn it over to them, calling it "a fascist symbol," he said.

    Welch refused, and the counter-protesters ripped it out of his hands, he said.

    Welch wouldn't relinquish the flag.

    Video captured by Mike Bivins, a freelance journalist, shows what happened next.

    As Welch and the counter-protesters wrangle over the flag, another masked counter-protester begins to strike Welch's body from behind using a weapon concealed in black fabric.

    That person then uses the weapon to club Welch on the back of the head, causing him to collapse instantly. The demonstrator with the weapon wanders off.

    "My bones turned to Jell-O and I just went down," said Welch, who believes he was struck with a metal object affixed to the end of the weapon.

    The video shows a crowd of onlookers watching as Welch lay on the ground in a fetal position. Another counter-protester, holding a shield, appears to stand above the injured man and jabs him with a makeshift weapon.

    "I remember thinking there was a very good chance that I could be beaten to death," Welch said.

    As blood began to pool around Welch's head, a group of volunteer street medics rushed to his aid, he said. Another medic eventually got Welch into a car and drove to an urgent care clinic on North Interstate Avenue.

    It took four staples to close the 3-inch gash in the back of his head, Welch said. He spent the next two days recovering from a concussion, though he was able to return to work.

    That week, Welch filed a police report. Sgt. Chris Burley, a Portland police spokesman, confirmed the bureau opened an investigation into the incident.

    Effie Baum, a spokesperson with Popular Mobilization, a group that helped organize the counter-protest at City Hall, declined to comment for this story.

    In the days since the attack, Welch has felt conflicted and a bit disappointed, he said.

    "It strikes me as the worst sort of political theater," he said of what happened to him. "It's kind of like you're playing into your opponents' hands when you do that sort of thing. That's not what I was there for."
#14943635
CNN isn't even pretending to be a real news show anymore.



Jeffrey Toobin Says Antifa ‘Widely Perceived As African American Organization’

CNN’s chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin raised a few eyebrows Wednesday when he claimed that Antifa — the violent “anti-fascist” group responsible for a number of destructive protests and counter-protests nationwide — was “widely perceived as an African American organization.”

Toobin was responding to President Donald Trump’s claims, made during a White House dinner for evangelical leaders, that a shift in power in Congress could lead to violence. Naming Antifa directly, the president added, “The level of hatred — the level of anger — is unbelievable.”

But according to Toobin, the real problem is not the many documented instances of violence perpetrated by Antifa, but the “racism” of the president. “Let’s be clear also about what is going on here,” he said. “The theme here is, ‘I’m Donald Trump and I’ll protect you from the scary, black people.'”

But then Toobin took it a step further, saying, “Antifa is widely perceived as an African-American organization, and this is just part of the same story of Lebron James and Don Lemon and Maxine Waters and the NFL players and the UCLA basketball players. This is about black versus white. This is about Donald Trump’s appeal to racism and it just happens all the time. We never say it — we don’t say it enough for what it is, but that’s what is going on here.”

The response to Toobin’s assessment suggested that Antifa being an “African American organization” was not as “widely perceived” as he may have thought.
#14943647
Those Nazis are pretty clever. Notice how they are always behind the police, not in front lol? It's pretty obvious who is protecting who.
#14944697
Freedom loving Well Regulated Militia member receives sentence for bravely practicing 1st, 2nd amendment rights.

A Maryland Ku Klux Klan leader who fired a gun at a black counterprotester during last year’s deadly white supremacy rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, has been ordered to spend the next four years behind bars.

Richard W. Preston, 53, was sentenced Tuesday after pleading guilty in May to a charge of firing a weapon within 1,000 feet of a school property. During the Aug. 12, 2017, “Unite the Right” rally, hundreds of white supremacists took to the streets with chants of “Jews will not replace us” and “blood and soil.”


Why is AntiFa trampling these brave patriots' rights??? Let them march in peace!

Also guys I'm starting to think Maz and Doug64 sympathize with nazis? I'm just seeing some kind of trend in their posting. I'm still connecting the dots, but I have a lot of material to work through from the Charlottesville thread where they spent 100+ pages mysteriously always coming down on the side of violent right thugs.
#14944777
SpecialOlympian wrote:... where they spent 100+ pages mysteriously always coming down on the side of violent right thugs.

Interestingly enough, the violent thugs attacking the police defending marchers in the articles referenced in this thread were all AntiFA.
#14944815
I'm a free speech Nazi. I'm prepared, even happy to use violence, to defend free speech. As opposed to liberals, that are happy to use violence to end free speech. From the Moscow show trials, to the Cultural Revolution, to the Cambodian killing fields, we've seen where the Liberal obsession with shutting down free speech and extinguishing individual rights ends.
#14944850
Zagadka wrote:Antifa are just as big strawmen as the KKK.

There’s an important difference between the two. On the Right the only support for the KKK and other racist groups is that they have the same right as everyone else to make their voices heard. The Right still recognizes the truth of H.L. Menken’s comment:

    The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

The Left, including the MSM(D), seem to have forgotten this. Yes, there have been a few on the Left that have condemned AntiFA’s assault on our constitutionally protected freedoms (Vox for one), but for the most part the Left’s response has been silence where it hasn’t been approbation.
#14944853
The response of the 'thinking Left' to violent attacks on conservative meetings and rallies is a real disappointment.

Fifty years ago, it was the Right who were lukewarm, or even hostile, to the principle of Free Speech. Now Left and Right have changed places.

This is because they have changed places with respect to who dominates the culture. Cultural domination is not a function of rational analysis, and is usually threatened by rational analysis.

Thus the tepid, even hostile, attitude of the culturally-dominant to those who challenge their dominance, including -- especially including -- those challenges which take place via the medium of reasoned argument.
#14944892
Doug64 wrote:There’s an important difference between the two. On the Right the only support for the KKK and other racist groups is that they have the same right as everyone else to make their voices heard. The Right still recognizes the truth of H.L. Menken’s comment:

    The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

The Left, including the MSM(D), seem to have forgotten this. Yes, there have been a few on the Left that have condemned AntiFA’s assault on our constitutionally protected freedoms (Vox for one), but for the most part the Left’s response has been silence where it hasn’t been approbation.


Please note that it is the right and the KKK and the raxist groups that bring guns to rallies and shoot or threaten to shoot their ideological opponents. This is an obvious ploy to not only restrict free speech through intimidation, but also the right to free assembly.

There is also the simple fact that all these racist right wing organisations are there specifically to take away the rights of immigrants, women, minorities, LGBTQ people, and others. Their whole point is to take away the rights of me and mine.

And let us not forget the death threats sent to university professors for saying things like “Trump is bad”.
#14944893
They show up to these events specifically to fight and worship people like obvious federal informant Based Stickman. That's why they show up armed, with body armor, and stupidly post on Discord about all the ways they plan to kick leftist ass. And they bus themselves in from out of town, in short buses lmfao, to do it.

It's almost like AntiFa/anyone who counterprotests them are members of a community acting in self-defense against violent, hateful thugs acting under the flimsy pretense of free speech. A pretense that only idiots and sympathizers buy into or advocate. Which do you think Doug64, a man who once spent 100+ pages defending the murderous Charlottesville nazis, is?

It's almost as if the origin of AntiFa in Europe is local communities defending themselves from the inherently violent ideology of right wingers.
#14947860
maz wrote:First they came for the literal nazis but I said nothing because I was not a literal nazi. Then they came for the Proud Boys...and on and on

Except nobody came yet for anybody.

You are apparently not aware about what this phrase actually refers to.

It means the police or secret police gets to your home, takes you with you, and you'll never be heard about again.

It does NOT refer to two groups protesting and fighting each other .
#15027856
And AntiFA again demonstrates why it should be officially labeled a domestic terrorist group:

‘Minds’ Event Organizers: Antifa Threatens to Burn Down Theater Hosting Debate on Political Violence

    Antifa has threatened to burn down a New Jersey theater hosting a debate on political violence, according a statement by the event organizers. The far-left extremists also hacked the theater’s official Twitter account, promising to occupy it until it cancels the event.

    The discussion, titled “Ending Racism, Violence and Authoritarianism,” was organized by the free speech friendly social network Minds.com, and features a range of liberal, libertarian, and conservative speakers including journalist Andy Ngo, who was brutally attacked and hospitalized by Antifa in Portland earlier this year.

    Other speakers include British YouTuber and recent political candidate Carl Benjamin, independent journalist Tim Pool, BlazeTV host Lauren Chen, Canadian feminist Meghan Murphy, and many others.

    A spokeswoman for Minds.com said that Antifa have threatened to burn down the theater, and are also bombarding the owners with threatening messages and phonecalls.

    Antifa have also resorted to cyber warfare, hacking the official Twitter account of the theater and promising to “occupy” it until the event is cancelled.

    An Antifa-supporting account on social media suggested that the event could be fought by “locking them in and lighting a fire.”

    In a statement to Breitbart News, a Minds.com spokeswoman said they were determined to continue with the event, regardless of Antifa’s violent threats.

    “Despite ongoing aggressive threats and alleged criminal actions taken against the Pitman Theater and our event, the Minds IRL ‘Ending Racism, Violence and Authoritarianism’ will be taking place as scheduled on August 31, 2019″ said the spokeswoman.

    “The purpose of this event is to bring together a diverse group of people with differing viewpoints – people who often have combative and unproductive discussions online, behind their screens – and have them discuss their opinions and beliefs face-to-face, where each person can see the humanity of those whose viewpoints he or she disagrees with.”

    “At this time, we are in discussion with our original venue, the Broadway Theater of Pitman, about the escalating situation, however, the event is not cancelled, and will absolutely be in Pitman in some capacity. We are exploring alternative venues, but any new venue will be in the Pitman/Philadelphia region in the event things do change. We will notify all attendees about any changes in venues via email as soon as we have more information. The safety of our attendees is always our first consideration – and having a location that is both convenient for travel as well as a conducive and safe environment is what we strive for.”
#15027896
Pants-of-dog wrote:Do you have this story from a non-biased source?

Can you direct us to a non-biased news outlet? By that I mean one that you, me and @Doug64 would all agree is an non-biased source. Or have I misunderstood the way you define and determine non-bias?
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