France fuel protests: Macron drives ahead amid unrest - Page 9 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14972032
@Steve_American

You stated in reply to me that;

Sir, several decades ago I equated the situation in the world then as being like a game of Risk; with a difference.
. . Which is the Lighter fluid rule, which gives each player a cup with 3 oz or 70 ml of lighter fluid. And some kitchen matches. If at any time the player is not happy with the way the game is going he can dump the lighter fluid onto the map and pieces and light it with a match.
. . Therefore, I don't see much chance of a war between Fr. & Ger.


That would be a good result of your analogy if people were rational actors, but they by and large are not.

What you say there in the end is how it has been done in the past. But, for 100+ years wars cost more then you can steal by winning. Also, there is a strong trend toward the nation that starts a war with a near equal being the loser, not the winner.


People do not change, collectively they are often selfish and predatory, particularly in an Socio-Economic environment that only serves to encourage selfish and predatory behavior.

Where I live the elites don't need a growing profit margin.


They all do need a growing profit margin, or will need a growing profit margin, at some not too distant point. To not need that growing profit margin for a time means that the equilibrium is maintained by an enormous theft of money from the workers/consumers, and the resulting human misery accompanying that theft is somewhat hidden.


They seem to understand that the real goal in the game is to earn more status than all the other elites. Status damages others not any at all. Unlike underpaying workers so much that the economy is undermined. So, as long as the elites can live the good life, they don't to earn and keep more money every calendar quarter. They just need to show other elites that they earned more than most other elites.


That time period, where it looks more like Thorsten Veblen with his ''conspicuous consumption'' was right than Karl Marx, is soon to vanish, it is unsustainable. And actually, Veblen and Marx do not exclude each other in the slightest.

The greedy capitalists of the West are well on their way to destroying the world's economy, then the world's climate, then technological civilization, and finally (maybe) humanity itself. The rest of us MUST straighten them out. Teach them that they can compete for status instead of money they have no use for. [When you have a wealth of $1B dollars, what more can you buy with another $10M dollars?]


''Teach''....

In the current situation in France, macron has made concessions, but until he raises taxes on the corps. and the rich; there is no way he can pay for any concessions. The EU rules don't allow endless deficit spending, so he must offset concessions with taxes on someone. So far he refuses. So far the rich refuse. This is the heart of the problem.


Not quite, the heart of the problem lies in and with the Laboring Classes, who sweat and bleed and suffer in generally dumb anguish for century after century so others can live well. But sometimes they rise up, and then there's hell to pay.
#14972067
. . . . Steve_American wrote: "Sir, do you consider me one of 'those people'?"

annatar1914 wrote:I don't imagine you're one of the European Elites of the less than 1% of humanity that constitute the true puppet masters running the show in the Western world, so probably not.

Yes, and historically speaking those non-violent measures are used in the run up to war to gain advantages and buy the time necessary to demonize the particular opponent in question.

This is due to the principle of the falling rate of profit as understood by most Socialist thinkers. Capitalists find ways to increase their profit margin. generally at the expense of the worker. But since workers are also intended in the System to be buyers and consumers of goods and services, a cut in worker pay means a crisis of overproduction and lost profit.... And all of that is eventually ''solved'' by war, with the destruction of countries and regions and the looting of resources.

Everyone,
This is a perfect example of why you need to be careful in using pronouns in a reply.
Especially in the 1st sentence of the reply.
Every pronoun you write should/must have an antecedent contained in what you wrote. If you don't do this how can the reader know what you are referring to with your pronoun?
How many of you knew or realized that annatr1914 meant the 0.1% of people who run the West?
I certainly had zero idea that that meaning could possibly be what he meant.
#14972084
Steve_American wrote:. . . . Steve_American wrote: "Sir, do you consider me one of 'those people'?"


Everyone,
This is a perfect example of why you need to be careful in using pronouns in a reply.
Especially in the 1st sentence of the reply.
Every pronoun you write should/must have an antecedent contained in what you wrote. If you don't do this how can the reader know what you are referring to with your pronoun?
How many of you knew or realized that annatr1914 meant the 0.1% of people who run the West?
I certainly had zero idea that that meaning could possibly be what he meant.


Not quite sure why you decided to go back to ground we already covered when I believed I had already explained something rather clearly, and what's more, to your apparent satisfaction. But, I had also made myself quite clear who I meant in the same sentence of which you quoted the first part;

It always comes down to force with those people, it seems. I think leaving the EU is the better option, because the EU is turning out to be the enemy of it's member nations, save one...


If the EU is the enemy of it's member nations for the most part, and only represents the .01 % of Europe's peoples at that, then I think I've made myself clear as to who I think has been the major problem with France and the rest of Europe.

So, shall you reply to my previous post?
#14972156
@annatar1914,
Your post is timestamped 1hr:20min. before mine.
Sorry, I just didn't see it. You need to remember I'm 12 hours from NYC time.
I was just saying that the use of pronouns makes the reader really have to remember what you said yesterday.
Apparently I failed to join your points together properly. You could have avoided it by being more explicit.
I'll reply to you other reply soon.
#14972157
@annatar1914,
You wrote: "They all do need a growing profit margin, or will need a growing profit margin, at some not too distant point. To not need that growing profit margin for a time means that the equilibrium is maintained by an enormous theft of money from the workers/consumers, and the resulting human misery accompanying that theft is somewhat hidden. "

I have said the from 1000 to 1500 AD, there was not a lot of growth in profit margins. The economic and social system survived this. It could do this again.
I have also said, that for the last 40 years real wages in the US have been flat.
This was a great theft from the workers.
Where I live now, the elites don't seem to need that. Here the Gov. doesn't tax me hardly at all, just a VAT.
My wife says most of the taxes are paid by the elites/rich.
And yet, the roads get repaved, new street lights are installed to make them continuous along the highway 15 miles from the nearest town, the police never give out traffic tickets or parking tickets, the Gov. raised the retirement pension (nobody paid into a fund for this), it raised the disability payment too, it provides some free rice and cooking oil every month, etc.
The private economy has money to tare down old buildings and build new ones.
The economy seems to be doing fine. However, I don't speak the language so I might be wrong about that.

Maybe, if you did more than simply assert that all capitalists for all time must have a growing profit margin then I could be convinced by a good argument.

BTW, on the internet, I don't think that anyone can assume that the lack of a reply means that the other party has agreed with you.
For me specifically, 90% of the time I will say that's a good point rather than walk away.
#14972163
@annatar1914,

You wrote: "@Steve_American

You stated in reply to me that;

Sir, several decades ago I equated the situation in the world then as being like a game of Risk; with a difference.
. . Which is the Lighter fluid rule, which gives each player a cup with 3 oz or 70 ml of lighter fluid. And some kitchen matches. If at any time the player is not happy with the way the game is going he can dump the lighter fluid onto the map and pieces and light it with a match.
. . Therefore, I don't see much chance of a war between Fr. & Ger.

You wrote: That would be a good result of your analogy if people were rational actors, but they by and large are not.

I wrote: "What you say there in the end is how it has been done in the past. But, for 100+ years wars cost more then you can steal by winning. Also, there is a strong trend toward the nation that starts a war with a near equal being the loser, not the winner.


You wrote: People do not change, collectively they are often selfish and predatory, particularly in an Socio-Economic environment that only serves to encourage selfish and predatory behavior."

-------------------------------------
OTOH, the Cold War ended without nuclear bombs dropping. So, there is some hope there will be no wars and no nuclear bombs will be dropped in Europe.
#14972166
Actually an interesting discussion on the topic of France and Macron.

If Macron survives this and turns it around either by changing policy or whatever other means but does it in a satisfactory manner. Does it mean that he will become the De Facto leader of Europe? (The same way as many magazines imagined it)
Most of the greats are acknowledged by their achievements in a certain timeframe and their relevance to the rest of the region or world.

Isn't this exactly the problems of Europe manifesting themselves so if Macron manages to settle them then he will become a person of imitation for other leaders in Europe aka De Facto leader of Europe.
#14972174
JohnRawls wrote:Actually an interesting discussion on the topic of France and Macron.

If Macron survives this and turns it around either by changing policy or whatever other means but does it in a satisfactory manner. Does it mean that he will become the De Facto leader of Europe? (The same way as many magazines imagined it)
Most of the greats are acknowledged by their achievements in a certain timeframe and their relevance to the rest of the region or world.

Isn't this exactly the problems of Europe manifesting themselves so if Macron manages to settle them then he will become a person of imitation for other leaders in Europe aka De Facto leader of Europe.


That made me laugh. Macron will sit it out and become a lame duck like Hollande.
#14972453
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Macron dosent decide anything he is there as a representative of the elites
he will be replaced by someone else if shit hits the fan just like what happened with hollande and Sarkozy

Macron tried to stand up to Trump on the climate change bullshit. But I think Macron's problem is that he does not know shit.
#14972687
Zionist Nationalist wrote:I really hope those yellow vest movement will grow here I will join them aswell at the fist opportunity
the cost of living here is much worse than france people here are apathetic this is not good we are being fucked in the ass by the government and none is doing anything

Why don't you move?
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