[Drlee]

You have an emotional need to see trans people as sick and deluded. I simply do not share it, and I see this paradigm as transphobic.

You just simply refuse to read the OP. So off you go with your usual insults.

Pay attention.

It is not an emotional need to see "non-binary" people as sick (and delusions are an illness by the way) it serves a rational purpose. It is one thing for me to claim I am a bird but quite another to ask for an insurer to pay to glue feathers to me. It is not birdphobic for someone to think that my bird delusion might be treatable pathology but to seek a professional conclusion before the government buys the feathers. It may be that the correct treatment for my dysphoria or disorder may not be to glue feathers to me no matter how hard I cry for them.

It is compassionate, kind, caring and perfectly acceptable for me to urge the medical community to do proper research before it goes off half-cocked applying treatment. Patients want a lot of stuff. Frequently they want the wrong stuff. Now you may be certain of what treatment these individuals ought to receive but something tells me that your certainty is not grounded in science.

[Pants-of-dog]

You just simply refuse to read the OP. So off you go with your usual insults.

You never answered my question:

If somene presented an argument that implicitly presumed that all Christians were deluded and sick, would you consider that a logical criticism of Christianity or an example of bigotry?

Pay attention.

It is not an emotional need to see "non-binary" people as sick (and delusions are an illness by the way) it serves a rational purpose. It is one thing for me to claim I am a bird but quite another to ask for an insurer to pay to glue feathers to me. It is not birdphobic for someone to think that my bird delusion might be treatable pathology but to seek a professional conclusion before the government buys the feathers. It may be that the correct treatment for my dysphoria or disorder may not be to glue feathers to me no matter how hard I cry for them.

How does this have anything to do with the OP, or with me pointing out when @Verv makes transphobic arguments?

It is compassionate, kind, caring and perfectly acceptable for me to urge the medical community to do proper research before it goes off half-cocked applying treatment. Patients want a lot of stuff. Frequently they want the wrong stuff. Now you may be certain of what treatment these individuals ought to receive but something tells me that your certainty is not grounded in science.

If you assume I have any claims or certainty about the medical treatments required, you have misunderstood my arguments.

Please note that the person in the OP was never able to get surgery, probably because of the medical professionals involved.

[Drlee]

If somene presented an argument that implicitly presumed that all Christians were deluded and sick, would you consider that a logical criticism of Christianity or an example of bigotry?

Strawman. Try this on someone else. Stick to the topic at hand.

Besides. Nobody is presuming anything except those who presume that non-binery gender (in all of its many flavors) is completely normal and not worthy of research before action.

Please note that the person in the OP was never able to get surgery, probably because of the medical professionals involved.

Correct. But he did get powerful drugs. Powerful and dangerous drugs. He did not get the surgery because he stopped pursuing it.

[Pants-of-dog]

Strawman. Try this on someone else. Stick to the topic at hand.

If you want to discuss the fact that I am pointing out the transphobia inherent in @Verv‘s arguments, then be prepared to discuss why I think his arguments are transphobic.

Besides. Nobody is presuming anything except those who presume that non-binery gender (in all of its many flavors) is completely normal and not worthy of research before action.

Since no ine has argued that, I will move on.

Correct. But he did get powerful drugs. Powerful and dangerous drugs.

Yes, he did bully that nurse into it. This seems more like a criticism of how overworked medical staff are, instead of political correctness run amok.

He did not get the surgery because he stopped pursuing it.

No. He pursued surgery for several years without success, according to the “article” in the OP.

[Drlee]

If you want to discuss the fact that I am pointing out the transphobia inherent in @Verv‘s arguments, then be prepared to discuss why I think his arguments are transphobic.

For the zillionth time. I want you to stay on topic and leave transsexuals out of it.

Yes, he did bully that nurse into it. This seems more like a criticism of how overworked medical staff are, instead of political correctness run amok.

Nice try. Won't work. WE ALL know that she did not cave because she was tired.

The subject in the OP said:

I should have been stopped, but out-of-control, transgender activism had made the nurse practitioner too scared to say no.

I assume you have some evidence to contradict that?

No. He pursued surgery for several years without success, according to the “article” in the OP.

Wrong again. From his aricle:

Only one therapist tried to stop me from crawling into this smoking rabbit hole. When she did, I not only fired her, I filed a formal complaint against her. “She’s a gatekeeper,” the trans community said.

And then:

Two weeks hadn’t passed before I found a replacement therapist. The new one quickly affirmed my identity as a woman. I was back on the road to getting vaginoplasty.

...yet nobody except for the one therapist in Pittsburgh ever tried to stop me from changing my sex. They just kept helping me to harm myself.

So I guess you didn't read the article after all.

Let's not any of us forget that this man claims that a lack of scientific rigor and candor on the part of the medical community harmed him profoundly.

And this is what many of us are trying to say. Kaiserschmarm and I have been particularly vocal about this subject. There is a tendency for the medical community to not attempt to treat the dysphoria or other condition and just say WTF. We are transitioning children before puberty without a shred of medical evidence that it is the scientifically correct thing to do. And in the face of the established fact that, absent chemical or surgical treatment, the majority of childhood gender dysphoria cases resolve to the birth sex by age 18. It is a travesty.

[Pants-of-dog]

For the zillionth time. I want you to stay on topic and leave transsexuals out of it.

You really should read the “article” in the OP. The author was trans for most of their journey.

Nice try. Won't work. WE ALL know that she did not cave because she was tired.

The subject in the OP said:

I assume you have some evidence to contradict that?

Yes. I have the simple fact that the nurse was not qualified to diagnose gender dysphoria and should have referred Shupe to a qualifed specialist. And the nurse could have done this without any fear from any activists.

In fact, the nurse would have run the risk of a malpractice suit if they had not done so, and this risk would almost certainly outweigh the risk of some Twitter storm.

Wrong again. From his article:

So I guess you didn't read the article after all.

And yet, this person never got gender reassignment surgery.

How is that possible if the medical community was so fearful that they were naively acquiescing to this person’s every demand?

Shupe had the time. According to the story, Shupe started hormone therapy in 2013. There is a picture of Shupe in 2018 still doing the hormone therapy.

If it took Shupe two weeks to replace their therapist with someone who was willing to rubber stamp whatever Shupe wanted, why did it never happen in those five years?

Let's not any of us forget that this man claims that a lack of scientific rigor and candor on the part of the medical community harmed him profoundly.

And Shupe is correct on this point. They were misdiagnosed and should have received therapy for the actual underlying causes of their unhappiness.

And this is what many of us are trying to say. Kaiserschmarm and I have been particularly vocal about this subject. There is a tendency for the medical community to not attempt to treat the dysphoria or other condition and just say WTF. We are transitioning children before puberty without a shred of medical evidence that it is the scientifically correct thing to do. And in the face of the established fact that, absent chemical or surgical treatment, the majority of childhood gender dysphoria cases resolve to the birth sex by age 18. It is a travesty.

Well, I will focus solely on this story in this thread.

[Drlee]

Well, I will focus solely on this story in this thread.