[Patrickov]

Plus, Westerners have already proven that they will believe any propaganda their media feeds them, so the media might tell everyone to "go outside wearing a target t-shirt and stand 3 meters from anyone else" and millions would do this and get shot dead. So easy to kill passive Eichmans with no community.

For propaganda to work the first thing is that it must align with what the audience have a want or even need to believe. We sometimes find propaganda very defying (our perception of) common sense, but having a lot of audience, mostly due to one of the following:
1. The said propaganda is not that defying common sense, or
2. The world around the said audience has become very desperate (which I think is my case).

I think the quote shows a lack of understanding on how propaganda fits to the audience's perception (even by manipulation there must be something observable to them to start with), and therefore is a pathetic exaggeration.

[skinster]

[QatzelOk]

For propaganda to work the first thing is that it must align with what the audience have a want or even need to believe. We sometimes find propaganda very defying (our perception of) common sense, but having a lot of audience, mostly due to one of the following:
1. The said propaganda is not that defying common sense, or
2. The world around the said audience has become very desperate (which I think is my case).

I think the quote shows a lack of understanding on how propaganda fits to the audience's perception (even by manipulation there must be something observable to them to start with), and therefore is a pathetic exaggeration.

The most common "Need" that propaganda exploits is the "Need" to converse with other humans, or to feel like one is participating in something larger than solo survival. This is why it only works on disconnected, alienated people. (This is from Jacques Ellul's book, and is also reflected in my own personal experience observing propaganda's biggest supporters).

If one has a well-developed community, these living, breathing social actors have a great effect on one's perspective, and propaganda can't completely crush 'common sense.' This expression 'common sense' refers to the kind of wisdom one gets from speaking to other people from a wide variety of backgrounds in your community.

But today, humans in rich countries are more solo, alienated, and disconnected from these everyday conversations with a variety of others. Instead, we interface with mass media and mediated friendship connections through devices, and this makes us incredibly unwise and vulnerable to be manipulated by propaganda.

[ckaihatsu]

Instead, we interface with mass media and mediated friendship connections through devices, and this makes us incredibly unwise and vulnerable to be manipulated by propaganda.

This, though, is *itself* propaganda, and shows the typical techno*phobic*, control-freak attitude of the soft-left.

You're obviously more interested in membership in the social power structure, more than anything else, like, perhaps, *mass liberation* from capitalism's bourgeois ruling class, and all of its state racism -- the unpunished killer cops out there.

'Community' types like yourself only care about your own localist community -- you're just supporting global neo-medievalism, politically speaking.

[skinster]

[QatzelOk]

This, though, is *itself* propaganda, and shows the typical techno*phobic*, control-freak attitude of the soft-left.

To call something a "phobia," is to say that fear of that thing is irrational.

In 2020, with climate change, ocean acidity, species extinction, nuclear war, and well-masked economic predation all staring us in the face because of various technologies, this fear is in no way irrational.

Perhaps the technology of Perception Management has influenced your witless apologizing for damaging technologies? Perhaps your knowledge of Marxism has in no way diminished your admiration for power?
Or maybe, like Karl Marx, you're a comfortable upper middle class person living in the 19th Century?

[ckaihatsu]

To call something a "phobia," is to say that fear of that thing is irrational.

In 2020, with climate change, ocean acidity, species extinction, nuclear war, and well-masked economic predation all staring us in the face because of various technologies, this fear is in no way irrational.

Perhaps the technology of Perception Management has influenced your witless apologizing for damaging technologies? Perhaps your knowledge of Marxism has in no way diminished your admiration for power?
Or maybe, like Karl Marx, you're a comfortable upper middle class person living in the 19th Century?

Well, you're correct to point out that technology is a double-edged sword. I *don't* support those damaging technological practices that you've cited.

But I'll maintain my critique that many leftists are overly wary of much of *consumer* technology, which I'll argue *benefits* those who can afford it, whatever that may be.

I certainly *don't* admire those in power, or the technologies they produce -- I see technological development as being *incidental* to capitalism itself, and very *incremental*, at that.

[Patrickov]

The most common "Need" that propaganda exploits is the "Need" to converse with other humans, or to feel like one is participating in something larger than solo survival. This is why it only works on disconnected, alienated people. (This is from Jacques Ellul's book, and is also reflected in my own personal experience observing propaganda's biggest supporters).

If one has a well-developed community, these living, breathing social actors have a great effect on one's perspective, and propaganda can't completely crush 'common sense.' This expression 'common sense' refers to the kind of wisdom one gets from speaking to other people from a wide variety of backgrounds in your community.

But today, humans in rich countries are more solo, alienated, and disconnected from these everyday conversations with a variety of others. Instead, we interface with mass media and mediated friendship connections through devices, and this makes us incredibly unwise and vulnerable to be manipulated by propaganda.

I am a "disconnected, alienated person" but I also have little need of "converse with other humans, or to feel like one is participating in something larger than solo survival". As a single male approaching middle-age, I start to find out that people able to make a difference and those who aren't are completely different people, and it's usually members of the latter group who fail to recognise this fact who are the most prone to propaganda.

Stop believing the world "should" work in a certain way is a good start to develop propaganda immunity (although I obviously am not able to achieve this yet).

All in all, I will only believe that "people would throw themselves in front of nukes and drones if they are asked to" shit if I actually see that, and even by then they ask for their own deaths anyways. It can be said that I see some of those intoxicated in propaganda are beyond salvation anyways, and maybe having them sent to God's (judicial) court would make the world a better place.

[QatzelOk]

I am a "disconnected, alienated person" but I also have little need of "converse with other humans, or to feel like one is participating in something larger than solo survival". As a single male approaching middle-age, I start to find out that people able to make a difference and those who aren't are completely different people, and it's usually members of the latter group who fail to recognise this fact who are the most prone to propaganda.

Stop believing the world "should" work in a certain way is a good start to develop propaganda immunity (although I obviously am not able to achieve this yet).

All in all, I will only believe that "people would throw themselves in front of nukes and drones if they are asked to" shit if I actually see that, and even by then they ask for their own deaths anyways. It can be said that I see some of those intoxicated in propaganda are beyond salvation anyways, and maybe having them sent to God's (judicial) court would make the world a better place.

Your personal "theories" about propaganda would really become more credible with a little more reading on the subject. (Jacques Ellul - Propaganda)
I say this because you obviously have an interest in the subject, and the subject - propaganda - is too complex to get a handle on it by just observing people in day-to-day life. Observation is good, of course. But the book will introduce you to the theory of propagana - why we "need" it, who makes it, and how it works.

You'll thank me later.

[ckaihatsu]

I am a "disconnected, alienated person" but I also have little need of "converse with other humans, or to feel like one is participating in something larger than solo survival". As a single male approaching middle-age, I start to find out that people able to make a difference and those who aren't are completely different people, and it's usually members of the latter group who fail to recognise this fact who are the most prone to propaganda.

Stop believing the world "should" work in a certain way is a good start to develop propaganda immunity (although I obviously am not able to achieve this yet).

All in all, I will only believe that "people would throw themselves in front of nukes and drones if they are asked to" shit if I actually see that, and even by then they ask for their own deaths anyways. It can be said that I see some of those intoxicated in propaganda are beyond salvation anyways, and maybe having them sent to God's (judicial) court would make the world a better place.

Your personal "theories" about propaganda would really become more credible with a little more reading on the subject. (Jacques Ellul - Propaganda)
I say this because you obviously have an interest in the subject, and the subject - propaganda - is too complex to get a handle on it by just observing people in day-to-day life. Observation is good, of course. But the book will introduce you to the theory of propagana - why we "need" it, who makes it, and how it works.

You'll thank me later.

'Propaganda' can also be called 'marketing'.

And here it is, on a 'high-road' to 'low-road' taxonomy:


philosophical abstractions

Spoiler: show

[colliric]

Julian Assange Melbourne vigil:


Fuck it, i'll go.

[skinster]

[skinster]

[Stardust]

Radio Free Assange!

Introducing Radio Free Assange, a 24/7 radio program dedicated to ending the political persecution of Julian Assange.

[skinster]

Assange and Varoufakis warn why the prevailing economic crisis could lead to fascism

[colliric]

Sadly I didn't get to go last week. Friday night is after work for me.

I will try to attend one soon.

[colliric]

Enjoy. Interesting interview with his fiancee.

[Stardust]

[skinster]

[skinster]