Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15013301
Beren wrote:I wouldn't believe Hongkongers mean to make a revolution, they just mean to keep their city privileged.


Normally, if someone demands for exceptional treatment, it is problematic, right. Hence the weightiness behind the expression 'privileged' here.

But, they are literally just trying to not be subject to the tyrannical laws of Beijing that would empower the persecution of people for doing things that we all take for granted right here.

It's interesting that you would phrase it that way. :lol:
#15013302
Patrickov wrote:A revolution is only possible if you can militarily and economically match your oppressors. Clearly not the case for Hong Kong.


As i said, not necessarily. You just need to make the damage be too severe for the other side to handle it. Estonia didn't win its independence from the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union by managing to be on equal ground economically or militarily. We won our independence because we applied effort in the appropriate moments and made it very painful for the said countries to re-establish control. That can be said about many countries like India for example. If there is no net-profit of any sort from a region then there is no point in having that region. It happened so many times in history even dating back to the Roman Empire. It is not a hard concept to grasp.

That is why i am writing to you and trying to explain to you that China is limited in its actions right now. The same way the Russian empire and Soviets/Russia were busy with other things to actually stomp us out.( Let us be realistic here. Soviet Union or Russia could do it at any point militarily) Same thing is happening in China right now. China can't afford to pick a fight with the West when it needs to change its economic model. CCP is not stupid and understands this. They already have Trump putting a wrench in their bicycle wheels.( Part of the reason why Trump is doing it is because people like Bolton and Lighthizer also understand this and know that they can get away with it)
#15013305
Verv wrote:It's interesting that you would phrase it that way. :lol:

How should I have phrased it with one word then?

The freedoms and lifestyles they enjoy in HK make Hongkongers privileged in China, and the whole thing is all about that they want to keep their privileges as citizens of Hong Kong, which is understandable but hardly a revolutionary act.
#15013306
JohnRawls wrote:The longer the protests last, the higher the chance of violence from CCP side become. I do not think that they are in a situation when they can weather the storm like Macron did nor do they actually have the political savy nor the institutions/trust to do so.


I don't see violence coming from the CCP on this one. They are not going to repeat the mistakes of Tiananmen Square. Hong Kong is still too far seperated from the mainland for them to do anything without bringing down the wrath of other countries in the region. Sending the army or navy anywhere near the Hong Kong boarder is going to be an epic disaster for them internationally despite what Igor believes.

Their only option is to get rid of Carrie Lam and cancel the bill. And I actually think they do want to do that, but also don't want to admit "defeat". I think they are going to wait it out or put private pressure on the HK government to sort it out(maybe in a month or so once it dies down a little). I believe Carrie did put this forward herself as they are saying.

If there is a "crack down" it will have to come from the Hong Kong Police and Hong Kong government, and that will also make things even worse. Highly likely the HK Police force will strike rather than enforce any crackdown. They didn't even really bother turning up to last sunday's march at all after how much backlash they copped on the Wednesday decision to bring out the Pepper and Water cannons.
#15013310
colliric wrote:I don't see violence coming from the CCP on this one. They are not going to repeat the mistakes of Tiananmen Square. Hong Kong is still too far seperated from the mainland for them to do anything without bringing down the wrath of other countries in the region. Sending the army or navy anywhere near the Hong Kong boarder is going to be an epic disaster for them internationally despite what Igor believes.

Their only option is to get rid of Carrie Lam and cancel the bill. And I actually think they do want to do that, but also don't want to admit "defeat". I think they are going to wait it out or put private pressure on the HK government to sort it out(maybe in a month or so once it dies down a little). I believe Carrie did put this forward herself as they are saying.

If there is a "crack down" it will have to come from the Hong Kong Police and Hong Kong government, and that will also make things even worse. Highly likely the HK Police force will strike rather than enforce any crackdown. They didn't even really bother turning up to last sunday's march at all after how much backlash they copped on the Wednesday decision to bring out the Pepper and Water cannons.


Your saying exactly what i am saying. What they can do is very limited, especially if they do not want to admit defeat. Admitting defeat is the less costly short term but a lot more costly long term in regards to Hong Kong.(It also doesn't guarantee the end of the protest) I am not sure how much they "Don't want to admit defeat" but its a big factor. Hence i said that violence might happen but unlikely. I see it as a possibility.
#15013311
Beren wrote:How should I have phrased it with one word then?

The freedoms and lifestyles they enjoy in HK make Hongkongers privileged in China, and the whole thing is all about that they want to keep their privileges as citizens of Hong Kong, which is understandable but hardly a revolutionary act.


I would have advised you to stick to the narrative that the people of Hong Kong would be facing oppression.

This is what is accurate, and this is where our focus should be. I mean, sure, technically, the city that is not oppressed due to its political history is "privileged," but it makes it sound like the Hong Kongers are just protesting equality among cities, not protesting for their human rights.
#15013312
Verv wrote:I would have advised you to stick to the narrative that the people of Hong Kong would be facing oppression.

This is what is accurate, and this is where our focus should be. I mean, sure, technically, the city that is not oppressed due to its political history is "privileged," but it makes it sound like the Hong Kongers are just protesting equality among cities, not protesting for their human rights.

They're protesting for the privileged status of their city rather than their human rights, and they're also protesting against Beijing rather than for their human rights. I'd also consider it a Mandarin vs Cantonese conflict rather than protesting for human or civil rights.
#15013313
Beren wrote:They're protesting for the privileged status of their city rather than their human rights, and they're also protesting against Beijing rather than for their human rights. I'd also consider it a Mandarin vs Cantonese conflict rather than protesting for human or civil rights.


Define "privilege". I have a feeling that you are mixing things up.
#15013315
colliric wrote:If there is a "crack down" it will have to come from the Hong Kong Police and Hong Kong government, and that will also make things even worse. Highly likely the HK Police force will strike rather than enforce any crackdown. They didn't even really bother turning up to last sunday's march at all after how much backlash they copped on the Wednesday decision to bring out the Pepper and Water cannons.


Since at least a generation or two (of police department heads) ago the police have already been "educated" to defend the established order at all costs. Therefore, believing any strike on the police's part is, I am afraid, delusional, unless the Government pushes all responsibility on them.
#15013318
Beren wrote:They're protesting for the privileged status of their city rather than their human rights, and they're also protesting against Beijing rather than for their human rights. I'd also consider it a Mandarin vs Cantonese conflict rather than protesting for human or civil rights.


So you think that the people of Hong Kong are not interested in human rights and being subjected to totalitarian government and authoritarian Communists who are oppressing other people throughout the country...

But they just dislike Beijing, and this is a Mandarin Vs. Cantonese thing...

That is new.

Do you have some reasons to believe this that you could share with us?
#15013320
Patrickov wrote:Since at least a generation or two (of police department heads) ago the police have already been "educated" to defend the established order at all costs. Therefore, believing any strike on the police's part is, I am afraid, delusional, unless the Government pushes all responsibility on them.


Sound reasoning.

I would suspect however that the reason for their significantly visually minimal numbers on Sunday is because a good amount of those 2 Million protestors(2/7 Hong Kongers showed up) were off-duty cops, some refusing to come in on Sunday and also some higher ranking detectives. May not be a total strike(or even a formal one, just refuse to work "unscheduled shifts on my day off"), but enough to cripple any potential crackdown I suspect.
#15013321
Verv wrote:So you think that the people of Hong Kong are not interested in human rights

Are their human rights being threatened at all in this case or would the bill in question threaten the privileged status of their city only if it became law? Hongkongers seem to react to the threat to their privileged status so vigorously rather than worrying for their human rights so much.
#15013322
Verv wrote:But they just dislike Beijing, and this is a Mandarin Vs. Cantonese thing...

That is new.

Do you have some reasons to believe this that you could share with us?


The Hong Kong Cantonese will never trust Beijing Mandarins. That has been the way since 1948/9.

They will never trust Beijing Mandarin Chinese BECAUSE they are "Communist scum" and "accepted Communism". In mindset of Hong Kong Cantonese, Communist rule is being forced onto them specifically by Beijing Mandarin Scumbags(and they are right of cause!).

You are both actually correct. Hong Kongers mentally tied them together years ago, and understandably so. Afterall all the threats of Invasion prior to 1997 came out of the city of Beijing in the Mandarin language. Not to mention the British encouraged this thinking(it is after all, CORRECT!).
#15013323
colliric wrote:The Hong Kong Cantonese will never trust Beijing Mandarins. That has been the way since 1948/9.

They will never trust Beijing Mandarin Chinese BECAUSE they are "Communist scum" and "accepted Communism". In mindset of Hong Kong Cantonese, Communist rule is being forced onto them specifically by Beijing Mandarin Scumbags(and they are right of cause!).

You are both actually correct. Hong Kongers mentally tied them together years ago, and understandably so. Afterall all the threats of Invasion prior to 1997 came out of the city of Beijing in the Mandarin language. Not to mention the British encouraged this thinking(it is after all, CORRECT!).


That is a really interesting point and I can accept that this is perhaps the most accurate assessment of it.

But, still, it would be quite interesting if you could provide a source that attests to this.

I have heard that the Koreans in China are allowed their ethnic schools and the likes, and that they tend to be quite loyal to the Chinese government and do not have much, if any, suspicion at all of the Han Chinese. So, I think there are examples of ethnic minorities that have generally accepted the situation -- and it is rather ironic than the Cantonese speakers & Mandarin speakers are divided like this.

Good information.
#15013328
Verv wrote:.I have heard that the Koreans in China are allowed their ethnic schools and the likes, and that they tend to be quite loyal to the Chinese government and do not have much, if any, suspicion at all of the Han Chinese. So, I think there are examples of ethnic minorities that have generally accepted the situation -- and it is rather ironic than the Cantonese speakers & Mandarin speakers are divided like this.


In Guangdong and Guangzhou I'm sure it is slightly different where they've had to live together, but Hong Kong has been consistently under threats of Invasion and assimilation by CCP Beijing Mandarin Chinese since 1948/9 and those constant military "crackdown" threats have continued since 1997(despite being toothless threats). Alot of the older generation remembers how Queen Elizabeth II stopped that from happening and also spared it's inhabitants from undergoing the goddamn Cultural Revolution.
#15013405
The video footings from Hong Kong will convince the CCP leaders in Beijing (if any convincing is needed) that the Chinese must never be allowed to have freedom of expression. They must keep the lid on the pressure cooker even if it takes a massacre of Gargantuan proportions. Once the Chinese humanity is let loose, there will be no holding them and the old men in their forbidden palaces will be swept away.
#15013431
JohnRawls wrote:So how was it today @Patrickov ?

Keep us updated.


I don't like people putting stress on me. Besides I feel that there are some people more keen on this than I do, that I believe they can quote news themselves. Of course, I will report every pro-Chinese propaganda.

Anyway, there are new protests in that about 10,000 strength of people flood various government places on Hong Kong Island. The authorities make no moves other than "shouting profanities across the 'barrier' (in reality just normal glass doors of the government headquarters". The protesting seems more like "work" of some sort as the protesters go home at night, just like the previous ones.

I personally don't like what's going on -- either it will end violently (on the part of the Government of course), or it will fall into some kind of obscurity like the French Gilets Jaunes. After all, not everybody can afford to strike or refuse to pay tax (nobody can try to verify the latter without getting arrested IMHO)
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 30

It is very nice to look at. You just chose the wr[…]

.... What does the BBC do that is Zionist? What’[…]

It's already turned into a retarded inquisition s[…]

As David Koch, the younger of the Koch brothers, h[…]