[Palmyrene]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/m ... s-17479751

This is the moment an arsonist set fire to a synagogue - but ensured an instant comeuppance.

Tristan Morgan, 51, was caught on camera pouring petrol on the religious building and set it alight.


But he is then seen taking the full blast of the explosion in his face in central Exeter, Devon.

The white supremacist was given an indefinite hospital order at the Old Bailey in London today.

He pleaded guilty to arson and two charges under the Terrorism Act, Plymouth Live says.

The footage, played in court, shows Morgan splash fuel through a window at Exeter Synagogue and, despite getting engulf in flames, he calmly walks away.

Morgan pats his singed head and drives off in a Mercedes Vito van.


The moment was caught on dramatic CCTV (Image: Plymouth Herald WS)
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The Old Bailey heard the defendant carried out the anti-semitic attack on July 21, 2018 - a date that coincided with a Jewish feast day commemorating disasters, including the Holocaust.

The far-right extremist with "deep-rooted anti-Semitic beliefs" laughed after he set fire to a historic synagogue, the judge was told.

Superintendent Matt Lawler, the Local Policing Commander for Exeter, East & Mid Devon said it was 'sheer chance' nobody was worshiping in the building at the time.

"Morgan is clearly very unwell and following multiple detailed medical assessments it is clear that a hospital order is appropriate. He will be subject of further assessments and close monitoring for many years to come," he said.

"The footage, which was played in open court, shows the level of planning, determination and intent by Morgan, whom the wider evidence clearly showed held abhorrent extreme right-wing, anti-Semitic, and white supremacist views. It is only by sheer chance that the synagogue was empty and indeed that Morgan himself sustained only minor burns."

Following a joint investigation by local officers and Counter Terrorism Policing South West working with the special cases unit of the Crime Prosecution Service (CPS), Morgan was charged with collecting information and encouraging terrorism.

And Morgan, of no fixed abode, will be subject of long-term monitoring by the police and partners if he's ever released.

Morgan, of no fixed abode, was given an indefinite hospital order (Image: PA)
Alistair Richardson, prosecuting, said Morgan made songs "exhorting others to violence" against the Jewish community and had an array of material that "revelled in the degenerate views of Nazi Germany and white supremacists".

He said: "He appeared to be laughing, while trying to flatten his hair, which she described as looking like it had been 'whooshed up'."

As he was put in a police van, Morgan said: "Please tell me that synagogue is burning to the ground, if not, it's poor preparation."

Later, as his burns were being treated in hospital, he told staff "it was like a bomb going off".

The synagogue, built in 1763, is the third oldest in Britain and remains a focal point for the Jewish community in the south-west.

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President of the Synagogue, Mr Richard Halsey said: “We sincerely thank the local police for their brilliant response and for their thorough investigation and support since the traumatic events of last year.

“In particular we wish to highlight how the community of Exeter has come together to demonstrate the genuine positivity in our city. We live in a wonderful place that has demonstrated tolerance and support for each other at times of need, and the whole Jewish community sincerely appreciates the support we have had from all faiths here in Exeter.

“In October we were thankfully able to return our services to the Synagogue, and in April this year we celebrated a wonderful re-dedication service.

“We are now back in our home, and it is as special as it has always been.”

[colliric]

Mental illness takes many forms. I feel sorry the man felt Jews were out to get him specifically.

Lucky there was no victims inside the synagogue also.

[Palmyrene]

@colliric

Would you say the same if he were Muslim? Or would you ascribe it to "inherent violence of Islam"?

Most of the perpetrators of Muslim shootings that have happened in the US were mentally ill. For example, the shooter of the gay night club in America I believe was a closet homosexual and had mental issues prior to the shooting and his affiliation with ISIS.

However a majority conservatives, either implicitly or explicitly, pushed the narrative that the cause of the shooting was fundamentally about religion rather than psychology.

It seems as if the white western bourgeoisie hypocritically gives their own kind a free pass whilst generalizing the motivations of mentally ill minorites.

[colliric]

The religion does promote terrorism & anti-Semitism in the Koran("Kill all Jews" etc), so the religious beliefs can be part of it, but most Muslims are sane and are not believers in the extreme elements of Islamic doctrines.

Islam is not a peaceful religion by doctrinal beliefs(you can indeed find the stuff Al Qaeda and Isis like in the Koran), but Muslims usually are. Especially when left to their own selves.

According to the Talmud, the ORAL TORAH, Jews are meant to believe Goyim are animals (dogs specifically) and Jesus name is to be wiped out and he is boil..... I can't even bring myself to say it. But most of them are SANE liberal Jews and choose not to believe in that stuff, despite the fact their religion implies "you must". So their religion has a similar issue.

[Palmyrene]

@colliric

You aren't answering the question. I asked you if you would say the same if the white nationalist were Muslim. I don't want to know what your (from what I can tell) uneducated (this isn't an insult btw; if thid offends you let me know so I may remove it) hot take on Islam is. I want to know if you would ascribe his motives to mental illness whether he was white nationalist or Muslim.

The religion does promote terrorism & anti-Semitism in the Koran("Kill all Jews" etc)

It doesn't say kill all Jews and if it did, the Caliphate certainly did a bad job of it given how it protected Jews under it's People of the Book laws which are also mentioned in the Quran.

The "kill all Jews" reference is an exaggeration of Muhammad's commands to kill off the survivors of a specific Jewish tribe. Whether this was the right decision is irrelevant; the point is that it has nothing to do with Jews in general. What Muhammad did to that specific tribe does not carry over to all Jews and to conflate the two is disingenious and emotional.

Islam is not a peaceful religion by doctrinal beliefs(you can indeed find the stuff Al Qaeda and Isis like in the Koran), but Muslims usually are. Especially when left to their own selves.

Pretending that Islam doesn't have peaceful aspects is also rather problematic to generating any religious conflict in Islam and painting the entire religion, which I may remind you is incredibly complicated in it's theology and history, as uniformally violent only justifies mistreatment of Muslims.

According to the Talmud, the ORAL TORAH, Jews are meant to believe Goyim are animals (dogs specifically) and Jesus name is to be wiped out and he is boil..... I can't even bring myself to say it. But most of them are SANE liberal Jews and choose not to believe in that stuff, despite the fact their religion implies "you must". So their religion has a similar issue.

There are varying interpretations of Judaism which disagree with such stances. There is no hard right or wrong when it comes to religion; it comes down to how you personally see it. Your own personal experiences with God are far more influencial in your behavior than what a book says.

If you're about to die of cancer, have a near death experience, see God, and then wake up alive you're going to have a very different idea of what God wants than a depressed guy who had a mentally ill hallucination of God.

[colliric]

I would ascribe it to Mental Illness yes. To put things more bluntly.

Mental illness significantly affecting how they are interpreting their own scriptures.

This is not just an issue for Islam, but for most religious groups. It manifests in different manners for different groups.

Some extreme Christians have had mental episodes and killed Abortion doctors because they fail to remember the scripture "thou shalt not kill" also applies to them too.

[Palmyrene]

@colliric

We should not forget socio-economic conditions as well. Being young, unemployed and unsuccessful makes it easy for far right conservatives and Islamists to put ideas into their heads. Instead of alleviating their alienation they accelerate. This is the case whether you're in New York or Cairo.

It's why you see a growing number of what Americans call "incels", racists, extremists, and other fascists in the West. It's because of those circumstances which are out of their control.

This makes it easy for someone to come along and tell people that it's not the fault of the ruling class or capitalists but that it's the fault of minorities who are just as oppressed as they are.

This is the way that hierarchy maintains power. It sees potential danger (i.e. young, unemployed, high testosterone men who may achieve class consciousness) and then decides to cause divisions within the lower classes so that solidarity isn't achieved.

If those disenfranchised young men find common ground with other disenfranchised people (in the case of America, blacks, gays, and hispanics; in the case of the Middle East, Christians, Druze, Yazidis, Assyrians, other Muslims etc.) then the entire system will topple over and those of the disenfranchised will build a far more compassionate, egalitarian society.

[Political Interest]

@colliric

We should not forget socio-economic conditions as well. Being young, unemployed and unsuccessful makes it easy for far right conservatives and Islamists to put ideas into their heads. Instead of alleviating their alienation they accelerate. This is the case whether you're in New York or Cairo.

It's why you see a growing number of what Americans call "incels", racists, extremists, and other fascists in the West. It's because of those circumstances which are out of their control.

This makes it easy for someone to come along and tell people that it's not the fault of the ruling class or capitalists but that it's the fault of minorities who are just as oppressed as they are.

This is the way that hierarchy maintains power. It sees potential danger (i.e. young, unemployed, high testosterone men who may achieve class consciousness) and then decides to cause divisions within the lower classes so that solidarity isn't achieved.

If those disenfranchised young men find common ground with other disenfranchised people (in the case of America, blacks, gays, and hispanics; in the case of the Middle East, Christians, Druze, Yazidis, Assyrians, other Muslims etc.) then the entire system will topple over and those of the disenfranchised will build a far more compassionate, egalitarian society.

Far right or far left it makes no difference, it's all the same violent extremism perpetuated by people with absolutely no conscience.

Society must have solidarism. It is important to reject classism, racism and religious prejudice.

Far right and far left extremists should be put in jail. Movements like Alt-Right should be banned. Communists and Neo-Nazis should all be sent to prison.

Anyone who compromises national solidarism should be jailed.

Unfortunately the political class are creating the conditions for communalism and massive problems within the next 40 years.

The solution is not liberal capitalism but we will also not find alternatives in far right or far left ideas either. What is needed is an alternative centrism and one that is maybe outside the confines of democracy. We also need social democracy if not a complete socialist system with market characteristics.

[Zionist Nationalist]

@Political Interest
it makes no sense for middle class people to want socialism so I dont understand why would you want that unless you are poor in a socialist society as a middle or high income class you will pay huge taxes
socialism benefit the low working class

[Suntzu]

Admin Edit: Rule 1 Violation.

[Political Interest]

it makes no sense for middle class people to want socialism so I dont understand why would you want that unless you are poor in a socialist society as a middle or high income class you will pay huge taxes
socialism benefit the low working class

I am not thinking of Soviet socialism with no markets, but maybe half Soviet half style socialism and half free markets. Or maybe even three quarters free markets.

But there must definitely be central planning.

Even a Scandinavian system is very good.

But in any case, free speech is allowing extremism to spread. I am against free speech if it leads to extremism.

[Suntzu]

Who get to decide the meaning of terrorism. Your terrorist is my patriot.

[Zionist Nationalist]

I am not thinking of Soviet socialism with no markets, but maybe half Soviet half style socialism and half free markets. Or maybe even three quarters free markets.

But there must definitely be central planning.

Even a Scandinavian system is very good.

But in any case, free speech is allowing extremism to spread. I am against free speech if it leads to extremism.

planned economy is a recipe for disaster
the less the state intervene the better

[Palmyrene]

@Political Interest

Implying that the political left and right are comparable is ridiculous. The most the far left has done in the West is throw a milkshake at a political while in the Middle East they are literally the only people pushing for freedom in the region (i.e. the various Communist parties, Rojava, etc.).

Meanwhile in the West white nationalists have shot up mosques, murdered people with cars, have attempted to burn down synagogues. In the Middle East, far right extremists blow up hospitals and other essential institutions, subjugate people to under their control, and preform massacres.

The centrist position is the most dangerous and is skewed towards supporting the political right. This is because opposition to oppression is rarely silent and it is rarely unconfrontational. The independence movement in India saw the creation of many militias who did more than simply peacefully protest British occupation. In fact, those militias scared the British more than Gandhi ever did and India may have never becane independent without them.

Do you think that those, what you'd describe far left, militias were a force of good or evil? Do you think the British should've wholesale genocided the Indian population because they refused to be civil or have a nice cup of tea with a country who forcefully tool them over and committed several atrocities towards them?

You can't have civil, rational discourse with oppression.

***

Your proposal to send Nazis, Communists, etc. all to jail is very, very authoritarian. It's a slippery slope as well because if you send some people to the gulags eventually everyone will be. This is how a state operates, not through justice but through extremes.

The only people who would benefit from the policy you have put forth would be fascists for only they are sly enough with their tongue to hide their ugly, perverted intentions.

Centrism never works. It especially doesn't work when discussing oppression and civil rights.

[Palmyrene]

Who get to decide the meaning of terrorism. Your terrorist is my patriot.

I hope this is a joke but I know how reactionary this forum is. I also know you and I'm pretty sure, with your kind of unsavory beliefs, you're probably going to go to jail at some point in the future if you haven't already. Don't worry, you'll get off easy since you're a white veteran and I doubt the Floridian judges will be strict.

In any case, make sure not to set yourself on fire like this lad over here when you try to give it a shot. Oh what am I saying? You'll screw it up somehow.

EDIT:

In England a mosque would have been much easier to find.

Jesus Christ! If you want to shoot up a masjid go ahead. Stop mastrubating to the idea on the internet and do something with your life.

I don't know why the mods aren't having a nice personal chat about toning down the threats of violence. Especially in this day and age.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Who get to decide the meaning of terrorism. Your terrorist is my patriot.

Who is that directed at, Suntzu? The British state, which defined arson on a synagogue as terrorism, or colliric, who said that the Koran promoted terrorism? I wouldn't have seen you as defending either anti-semitic arson or the Koran's objectives.

[Patrickov]

I hope this is a joke but I know how reactionary this forum is.

A better statement would be "I know how abundant there are reactionary people in this forum".

[Palmyrene]

@Patrickov

Actually a proper sentence would be "I know how abundant reactionary people are on this forum" as your proposal is not grammatically correct but I get the idea.

What's your ideology I may ask?

[Palmyrene]

Who is that directed at, Suntzu? The British state, which defined arson on a synagogue as terrorism, or colliric, who said that the Koran promoted terrorism? I wouldn't have seen you as defending either anti-semitic arson or the Koran's objectives.

Just ignore him. He's gone off the deep end by this point.

[Patrickov]

@Patrickov

Actually a proper sentence would be "I know how abundant reactionary people are on this forum" as your proposal is not grammatically correct but I get the idea.

What's your ideology I may ask?

Thanks for the correction.

As for my ideology, I wish myself as right-wing as possible but I am too financially limited to have my thoughts in sync with them. Consider me a centrist at this moment maybe.