[Ter]

Pakistan runs out of options as India tightens grip on Kashmir

>>Maria Abi-Habib, The New York Times

Published: 09 Aug 2019


Prime Minister Imran Khan of Pakistan speaks to reporters during a meeting with President Donald Trump in the Oval Office of the White House, in Washington on Monday, July 22, 2019. During the meeting, Trump promised to intervene on Kashmir. Threatened with sanctions over its ties to militants, and with the cost of war perilously high, Pakistan has little recourse diplomatically or militarily on Kashmir. (Anna Moneymaker/The New York Times)

The dispute over Kashmir has long been a flashpoint for war between India and Pakistan, with each nuclear-armed country holding the threat of retaliation over the other. But when India stripped the Indian-controlled region of Kashmir of its autonomy this week, Pakistan’s reaction appeared to be limited to high-level hand-wringing.

As Pakistan marks its independence day next week, it increasingly feels like a nation with its back against the wall, with few options to protect its existential interests. Its economy is teetering on the brink of collapse, and its international allies have either stayed silent over Kashmir or defected in support of India.

A conventional military reaction is probably too costly as Pakistan seeks to tighten its belt to shore up its finances. And one of the most effective strategies Pakistan has traditionally employed — using an array of militant groups as proxies to keep neighbours in check — has become a liability, amid the threat of international sanctions. (Pakistan has denied that it uses militant groups to achieve its foreign policy objectives.)

“The economy is hindering Pakistan’s options. As they head to a recession can they really afford a war right now?” said Arif Rafiq, the president of Vizier Consulting, a consulting firm on South Asian political and security issues. “Their capacity to bear the cost of a full-fledged conflict with India over Kashmir, whether via insurgent networks or conventionally — there just are not a lot of options Pakistan has.”

Even Afghan Taliban leaders, who have long been sheltered in Pakistan, seem to have turned their backs on their ally of late.

Last year, Pakistan, in an effort to end it global isolation, agreed to help the United States end its war in Afghanistan by delivering the Taliban leadership to the table for peace talks. In doing so, Pakistan employed one of its greatest sources of leverage with the United States. Those talks are now nearing a conclusion, with American negotiators sitting across the table from their Taliban counterparts and aiming to reach a settlement soon.

In recent days, several Pakistani government officials have demanded that their country end its cooperation in the peace talks to protest US silence over India’s elimination of Kashmir’s autonomy. But the Taliban on Thursday issued a forceful statement warning against any meddling.

“Linking the issue of Kashmir with that of Afghanistan by some parties will not aid in improving the crisis at hand because the issue of Afghanistan is not related, nor should Afghanistan be turned into the theatre of competition between other countries,” the Taliban statement read.

The outcome of the peace talks and Pakistan’s role in them will likely influence whether the country finds itself blacklisted internationally over its continued support of terrorist organisations, a move that could make or break its faltering economy. The Paris-based group that monitors terrorism financing, the Financial Action Task Force, will vote in October on whether Pakistan has done enough to crack down on militant networks at home.

Pakistan hopes to make the case that it has moved against militant groups and should be taken off the grey list on which the watchdog placed it last year. Pakistan deeply fears it could be blacklisted, denied access to international financial markets at a time when it desperately needs loans to stay afloat. If Pakistan is blacklisted, it could tip the economy into recession.

Prime Minister Imran Khan of Pakistan seemed worried about the lack of options to force India to walk back its new Kashmir policy.

Meeting with Pakistani journalists Thursday, Khan dismissed using “jihadi organisations” against India in Kashmir. “There are more disadvantages than advantages,” Khan said, according to Amber Rahim Shamsi, a reporter for Samaa TV who attended the meeting.

The possibility of international sanctions also seemed to weigh on Khan.

“Pakistan has taken every step to get itself out of the baggage of the past,’’ the prime minister told the group of journalists, according to a second account of the meeting.

He said the government had undertaken “a complete cleansing operation” against terrorist groups. “My government has ensured there is a complete and sincere effort to bring Pakistan out of FATF,” Khan added, referring to the Financial Action Task Force.

Pakistan’s foreign minister has said he would raise the issue of Kashmir to the United Nations Security Council for a vote. But so far, the country’s closest allies have remained silent on the matter.

c.2019 New York Times News Service

When looking at that picture it is funny to realise that one is an ex-cricket player and the other one an ex-reality TV star lol.
And they are now determining matters of geopolitical importance.

As far as Kashmir is concerned, it is a done deal. Indian-administered Kashmir is an integral part of the Indian Federation.

I might go there on holiday again soon

[AFAIK]

When looking at that picture it is funny to realise that one is an ex-cricket player and the other one an ex-reality TV star lol. And they are now determining matters of geopolitical importance.

You complain about nepotism in gov't and now you complain about people who aren't lifelong career politicians forming gov'ts. Who are you happy to see govening countries?

[Ter]

You complain about nepotism in gov't and now you complain about people who aren't lifelong career politicians forming gov'ts. Who are you happy to see govening countries?

You are right. I just found it funny that both leaders from the US and Pakistan in that picture were accidental politicians.
There are some politicians who I appreciate because they make me laugh but I will not name them here because I would not be welcome in pofo polite company

[skinster]

[Zionist Nationalist]

Kashmire,Palestine is all part of the same shit. needs to be stomped out

[skinster]

Yes, yes, we know Zionists love people in slavery.

Yesterday I went to protests for occupied-Kashmir's freedom from India's occupation and blackout at the Indian embassy in London and Trafalgar Square. I spoke to one girl whose parents are in occupied-Kashmir now, she was incredibly distraught at her inability to speak to her parents for almost a week now and said she didn't know if they're even alive.

There looks to be a decent amount of pushback against fascist India's criminal activity around the world, with protests in Western countries as well as Muslim ones. Hopefully these protests have some effect.

More:

Kashmir’s Agony Fueled by Modi’s Rightwing Regime Echoes Across the World
All it took was a blink of an eye to realize that India’s rightwing government outmaneuvered old-style colonialism by repackaging it as “democracy in action”.

Whether described as a double takeover or colonialism squared, the fact is that the governing BJP, Bharata Janata Party, has given effect to subsume Indian Occupied Kashmir.

And in true tradition of the erstwhile colonizers of India, the British Raj, Narendra Modi’s government resorted to using fork-tongued language in order to justify its colossal crime.

Describing Article 370 of the Constitution the “root cause of terrorism” and blaming it as regressive and blocking “development” in Jammu and Kashmir, Modi’s BJP chief Amit Shah bulldozed it by revoking it. With its abrupt abrogation, Indian Occupied Kashmir no longer enjoys the status it had hitherto.

In other words, the teeming millions of its population who to date had opposed efforts by successive Indian governments to prevent the implementation of UN resolutions on a plebiscite, have effectively been captured as prisoners.

Dispossessed, silenced, imprisoned and dejected for being held in limbo without any recourse to access the protection of the UN or any other country, the powder keg lit by the BJP regime, is likely to explode with devastating consequences.

While Modi and his para-military RSS thugs along with BJP fanatics are celebrating this crude move, it must be noted that many human rights movements within India have adopted a tough stance by opposing it. Along with other critics within the country’s mainstream media, they do so at the risk of being ostracized as unpatriotic.

As debate rages on in India and elsewhere, particularly Pakistan, social media trolls in support of the BJP, have evidently become intolerant, harsh and scathing. Vile, rude and disgusting memes have begun to spring up, suggesting that their efforts to whitewash the intended obliteration of Kashmir, is orchestrated.

The pattern of attacks has become routine, i.e. to justify the clampdown of Kashmir, follow Israel’s lead by conflating resistance with “Islamist terrorism”. The vocabulary used is straight out of Benjamin Netanyahu’s hymn sheet. That it stinks of Islamophobia is reflective of Modi’s rise to power: from the ashes of anti-Muslim Gujarat pogroms as its chief architect to the dispossession of Kashmir.

Anti-Muslim bigotry is being disguised in language which stresses India’s “nationalism”, implying that the ideological basis of BJP being an extreme version of Hinduism is the ultimate political goal. Known as Hindutva, it is far removed from a secular democracy. Yet by using the instruments which are on offer to the BJP, the Modi regime has struck a fatal blow to Kashmir.

Overnight, the Valley has been plunged in doom and gloom. Tens of thousands of Indian troops have been mobilized to join the most militarized piece of real estate on earth. Cut off from each other and the outside world due to Modi’s arbitrary suspension of the internet, and additional measures which restrict movement, the Occupied Kashmiris face relentless ongoing persecution.

It is thus not surprising that RSS supremo Mohan Bhagwat and his second-in-command Bhaiyya Joshi congratulated the government for “this bold initiative which was very much necessary in the national interest…”.

Indeed it’s a reaction to be expected as the war of words escalates between arch-Hindutva paramilitary forces linked to the BJP via RSS and human rights movements .

Kashmir’s freedom struggle has taken on various contours during the last seven decades. Though many of its leaders have been imprisoned, banished or executed, successive generations continue to this day in their quest to gain freedom. In many ways their struggle is mirrored in Palestine.

Echoes of Kashmir’s pain, suffering and humiliation can be heard across all the Occupied Territories from Gaza to South Lebanon. And no matter to what extent Modi follows in Netanyahu’s footsteps to silence the persecuted millions, their cries will be heard.

And though the corridors of power in Western capitals may pretend to be insulated from Kashmir’s agony, their culpability in crimes resulting from their prized military industrial complex will loom large over their heads.

Neither Netanyahu nor Modi are free to act with impunity except with the “blessings” of the United States of America. That these two warlords have and continue commiting gross human rights violations, without any regard for legal imperatives which define rights and obligations, reveals the extent of their contempt for international conventions.

Dumping Article 370 is Modi’s latest act of defiance. Will he be compelled to reverse and reinstate Kashmir’s right to a plebiscite, is a question many may ask. The answer unfortunately is an emphatic NO. None of his allies – including South Africa, Saudi Arabia and Russia, are likely to intervene.

Kashmir’s woes are a tragic reality of how skewed international relations have become. It reflects an endemic corruption that has infested global politics and an unwillingness by power brokers to enforce justice.
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/kashm ... the-world/

[Ter]

Pakistan is also occupying about half of Kashmir yet everybody only talks about India. China is also occupying some parts. Silence on that fact also. What gives ?
There must be some other reason people support Pakistan against India. Hmmmmmmm. Why would that be ?

[Palmyrene]

Pakistan is also occupying about half of Kashmir yet everybody only talks about India. China is also occupying some parts. Silence on that fact also. What gives ?
There must be some other reason people support Pakistan against India. Hmmmmmmm. Why would that be ?

Clearly it's because they hate India. No other reason. They hate Indians and are racists. Nothing to do with the fact that they recently stripped the parts they occupy from special status, nope. They just are all secretly Muslim and Hindus.

[Ter]

Clearly it's because they hate India. No other reason. They hate Indians and are racists. Nothing to do with the fact that they recently stripped the parts they occupy from special status, nope. They just are all secretly Muslim and Hindus.

Does Pakistan offer special status to the people living in Pakistan-administered Kashmir ?
Does China offer special status to the people living in China-administered Kashmir ?
Was that special status supposed to last forever ? It has been so for seventy years already.
And notwithstanding the special status which they had, the Kashmiris were rioting and revolting all the time, helped by the militants who were sponsored by the Pakistani ISI.

Also, it should be clear to everybody that certain fait accompli will never change. Kosovo will never again be a province of Serbia, Crimea will never again belong to Ukraine, Kashmir will never become part of Pakistan.

Just live with it. Unless you feel better after a little shouting on the street somewhere, do it to your heart's content but it will not give any results.

[skinster]

Pakistan is also occupying about half of Kashmir yet everybody only talks about India.

The people in Azad (free) Kashmir don't consider themselves to be occupied. There's a clue in the name. That's where I was born and do not recall ever hearing my parents or aunts or uncles talking about how we're occupied. I didn't see any military occupation of my parent's village when I lived there for almost a year in 1995. As usual, Ter doesn't know what he's talking about.

There must be some other reason people support Pakistan against India. Hmmmmmmm. Why would that be ?

Maybe because it's not really about Pakistan per se but supporting the rights of Kashmiri self-determination however they wish to be governed.

[Palmyrene]

Does Pakistan offer special status to the people living in Pakistan-administered Kashmir ?
Does China offer special status to the people living in China-administered Kashmir ?
Was that special status supposed to last forever ? It has been so for seventy years already.
And notwithstanding the special status which they had, the Kashmiris were rioting and revolting all the time, helped by the militants who were sponsored by the Pakistani ISI.

Also, it should be clear to everybody that certain fait accompli will never change. Kosovo will never again be a province of Serbia, Crimea will never again belong to Ukraine, Kashmir will never become part of Pakistan.

Just live with it. Unless you feel better after a little shouting on the street somewhere, do it to your heart's content but it will not give any results.

I'm pretty sure self-determination isn't something you just "live" with.

Would you tolerate Saudi Arabia controlling your life? No. Then why should Kashmiris tolerate Indian rule which they never wanted in the first place?

And Kashmiris would be revolting and rioting anyways, Pakistanis just support them they don't instigate them. Yeah it's shitty for Pakistan to use Kashmiri struggles for their own purposes but removing Pakistani influence isn't going to stop Kashmiris fighting India.

[skinster]

Yeah, they're just going to "live with it" because Ter says so, even though they've been struggling against it for the last 7 decades. That's now all wiped away from the historical record because genius Ter says so.

[Ter]

Maybe because it's not really about Pakistan per se but supporting the rights of Kashmiri self-determination however they wish to be governed.

So, OK, they want self determination, fine.
Will the part of Kashmir administered by Pakistan also be part of this independent Kashmir ?
And the part administered by China ?

Why did Pakistan give a part of Kashmir to China ?

If that Pakistani Kashmir was such a heavenly place, why did skinster emigrate to the UK ?

As usual, Ter doesn't know what he's talking about.

That's now all wiped away from the historical record because genius Ter says so.

The woman with the insults
It does not make your arguments any better and you don't need to play to the audience, there is hardly anyone reading this.

[skinster]

So, OK, they want self determination, fine.
Will the part of Kashmir administered by Pakistan also be part of this independent Kashmir ?

Azad Kashmiris are fine with how they're governed, so I'm not sure why you're asking weird questions like this.

And the part administered by China ?

I understand that was something agreed by China and India.

Why did Pakistan give a part of Kashmir to China ?

When did that happen?

If that Pakistani Kashmir was such a heavenly place, why did skinster emigrate to the UK ?

I was a baby at the time my parents decided to move the family there. My father was already a U.K. resident. Also, I don't recall using the gay word 'heavenly'.

The woman with the insults

Calling you a genius is an insult?

It does not make your arguments any better and you don't need to play to the audience, there is hardly anyone reading this.

How else am I supposed to respond with such stupidity of yours that Kashmiris in occupied Kashmir will just have to "live with" Indian rule because you say so.

[Ter]

I understand that was something agreed by China and India.

No ,it was the result of a military action by China

When did that happen?

The Sino-Pakistan Agreement (also known as the Sino-Pakistan Frontier Agreement and Sino-Pak Boundary Agreement) is a 1963 document between the governments of Pakistan and China establishing the border between those countries. It resulted in China ceding over 1,942 to 5,180 square kilometres (750 to 2,000 sq mi) to Pakistan[citation needed] and Pakistan recognizing Chinese sovereignty over hundreds of square kilometers of land in Northern Kashmir and Ladakh. The agreement is controversial, not recognized as legal by India, which also claims sovereignty over part of the land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Pakistan_Agreement

How else am I supposed to respond with such stupidity of yours that Kashmiris in occupied Kashmir will just have to "live with" Indian rule because you say so.

you are truly the woman of lost causes.
As if your obsession of trying to de-legitimise the country of Israel was not enough, now you took on the lost cause of Kashmir. Do you have other lost causes? Try Tibet ?

[Palmyrene]

No ,it was the result of a military action by China



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Pakistan_Agreement


you are truly the woman of lost causes.
As if your obsession of trying to de-legitimise the country of Israel was not enough, now you took on the lost cause of Kashmir. Do you have other lost causes? Try Tibet ?

Ok that was a dick move on Pakistan's part.

[skinster]

Famous Indian activists, including Arundhati Roy, are put under house arrest for their involvement in an Indian protest against India's recent move, in India, tonight.

No ,it was the result of a military action by China

And in the 90s, twice, China and India agreed on where the line was drawn, apparently.

you are truly the woman of lost causes.

Calling you out for expecting Kashmiris to "deal with" foreign rule even though they've been resisting it for 7 decades results in the above response, OK. Glad you're getting tired, because you're boring me too.

As if your obsession of trying to de-legitimise the country of Israel was not enough, now you took on the lost cause of Kashmir. Do you have other lost causes? Try Tibet ?

Aside from your rabid Zionism and that being the reason why you keep quoting me ITT, why are you here? I mean, outside away from the forum, Israel is generally seen as a pariah state. Crying at me because I say what a lot of people think isn't going to change that reality, Ter. You'll likely be dead when Palestine is free anyway, so enjoy yourself now while it isn't.

[Zionist Nationalist]

so skinster you gonna run a BDS Campaign against India now?

[skinster]

As soon as the people of occupied Kashmir demand it, sure.

[Zionist Nationalist]

haha good luck with that