Houthis attack oil refinery in Saudi Arabia, biggest oil refinery in the world, with drones - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15033942
Rancid wrote:What about renewable energy?

What do you propose we do?


The Choice? It is between ''Socialism or Barbarism'' as Rosa Luxemburg once said. It's that simple.
#15033973
The EROEI (Energy return on energy investment) of oil sources has fallen dramatically over the years. It takes energy to find, extract, refine and transport oil and we're retrieving relatively less for that investment. Saudi Oil fields did 100:1 when first opened but have fallen to 30:1 as they're depleted. Tar sands has a ratio of 2:1.
#15034012
AFAIK wrote:The EROEI (Energy return on energy investment) of oil sources has fallen dramatically over the years. It takes energy to find, extract, refine and transport oil and we're retrieving relatively less for that investment. Saudi Oil fields did 100:1 when first opened but have fallen to 30:1 as they're depleted. Tar sands has a ratio of 2:1.



From a $ investment, the ROI has improved. This is why we continue to extract oil so much.

Anyway, I don't believe this is as a big an issue. The world will shift over to renewables anyway.

43% of my electricity is renewable. I intend to get an electric car in the future.
#15034025
Rancid wrote:How would socialism resolve the issues you see with respect to oil?


There's ''productive'' in the sense of; ''got to make money for private owners of the company'', and then there's ''productive'' in the sense of providing for the common good of all without the distortion of the market.
#15034027
annatar1914 wrote:There's ''productive'' in the sense of; ''got to make money for private owners of the company'', and then there's ''productive'' in the sense of providing for the common good of all without the distortion of the market.


Okay, but coal, oil and gas is used because it is more efficient. It produces more common good than the alternatives and that is why we use them instead of renewables mostly. It is not just a question of profits.

Renewables work in certain places sure but its unreasonable to expect them to work everywhere if you don't have sun or wind etc. Its like a Texan or Californian whining at a German why don't you use more solar? Well, there is not that much sun in Germany compared to Texas or California.
#15034031
annatar1914 wrote:There's ''productive'' in the sense of; ''got to make money for private owners of the company'', and then there's ''productive'' in the sense of providing for the common good of all without the distortion of the market.


You haven't answered my question.

Define the problem, and then explain how socialism will solve it.

For the record, I'm not anti-socialist, or rather, I'm not pro-capitalist. However, thus far, you haven't explained shit.
#15034090
Rancid wrote:You haven't answered my question.

Define the problem, and then explain how socialism will solve it.

For the record, I'm not anti-socialist, or rather, I'm not pro-capitalist. However, thus far, you haven't explained shit.


The Market Economy with it's waste, greed, and inefficiency, distorts the appearance of what we really have and what we don't, whereas the discipline and rationing of Socialism will extend the life of the oil fields we will have left.
#15034100
Hindsite wrote:!00% of my electricity is renewable as long as I pay my bill every month. Therefore, capitalism is the only way to go. Socialism can not help but lead to rationing.
HalleluYah


So having electricity for all for free, because everyone works and it is a common right of civilized men, is worse than maybe having electricity but having to pay for it and possibly losing it if one doesn't have enough money to pay the private owners of the utility company? Brilliant. And guess what? When you overuse the power grid in a Capitalist society, you have ''rationing'' too, via brown-outs and blackouts.
#15034121
annatar1914 wrote:So having electricity for all for free, because everyone works and it is a common right of civilized men, is worse than maybe having electricity but having to pay for it and possibly losing it if one doesn't have enough money to pay the private owners of the utility company? Brilliant. And guess what? When you overuse the power grid in a Capitalist society, you have ''rationing'' too, via brown-outs and blackouts.

These socialist are lying when they claim they can give everyone all this free stuff. None of it is free. It just means that those that work for a living will be forced to pay more in taxes to pay for the lazy bums that don't. The U.S. government already regulates all private utility companies in the USA. I like paying for just what I use. It allows you, if you wish, to donate so much each month to help pay for those that can't afford it. So I am in favor of keeping the capitalist system we have. It works for me. And we don't have brown-outs and blackouts where I live. We may lose electricity for a short time due to storms, but then we have generators to make up for that.
Praise the Lord.
#15034148
These socialist are lying when they claim they can give everyone all this free stuff. None of it is free.


A strawman. The one who is lying is you, because no Socialist ever says it is ''free''. Everyone who can work, works. And what is commonly produced is commonly shared. It's earned and it's deserved.

It just means that those that work for a living will be forced to pay more in taxes to pay for the lazy bums that don't.


Bullshit, another ignorant lie. There are minimal taxes on anything in Socialist countries. Again, everybody works who can work, and the products made by society aren't hoarded in private hands of ''lazy bums'', AKA; the ''Rich''.



The U.S. government already regulates all private utility companies in the USA.


Regulation is not public ownership, regulation is the minimal requirement for any civilized society to exist at all. Public ownership would be better. But you'd rather pay that bill, right? :excited:



I like paying for just what I use. It allows you, if you wish, to donate so much each month to help pay for those that can't afford it.


God damn this nonsense that allows greed to hide behind suckers! Why have anybody pay anything at all?!

So I am in favor of keeping the capitalist system we have. It works for me.


Selfish. And Sad, very Sad.



And we don't have brown-outs and blackouts where I live.


Good for you, I'm very glad you're not as miserable as some people in this world. Seems like such a shame that good hearted people couldn't make things just a little better if we used our hearts and our minds. Maybe not make Heaven on Earth; sinful mankind is sinful selfish mankind after all, but maybe just a little better?


We may lose electricity for a short time due to storms, but then we have generators to make up for that.
Praise the Lord.


You sure do make that phrase of yours come out as blasphemy, don't you? Oh well, you're hoping that there will be war in the Middle East with millions of casualties (especially Muslims and Jews and Christians who aren't Protestants) so God can rapture you and your loved ones out of harms way and escape natural death, right?
#15034158
annatar1914 wrote:A strawman. The one who is lying is you, because no Socialist ever says it is ''free''. Everyone who can work, works. And what is commonly produced is commonly shared. It's earned and it's deserved.

I was referring to the would be Democrat Socialist candidates for U.S. President. Some promise free healthcare, free college education, free child care, and even free income.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/michael ... ren-booker

annatar1914 wrote:Bullshit, another ignorant lie. There are minimal taxes on anything in Socialist countries. Again, everybody works who can work, and the products made by society aren't hoarded in private hands of ''lazy bums'', AKA; the ''Rich''.

Well, I don't wish to live in a socialist country like Venezuela, Cuba, or North Korea where the leaders hoard everything.

annatar1914 wrote:Regulation is not public ownership, regulation is the minimal requirement for any civilized society to exist at all. Public ownership would be better. But you'd rather pay that bill, right?

Yes, I would rather be able to pay all my bills.

annatar1914 wrote:God damn this nonsense that allows greed to hide behind suckers! Why have anybody pay anything at all?!

Because that is the decent and fair thing to do.

annatar1914 wrote:Good for you, I'm very glad you're not as miserable as some people in this world. Seems like such a shame that good hearted people couldn't make things just a little better if we used our hearts and our minds. Maybe not make Heaven on Earth; sinful mankind is sinful selfish mankind after all, but maybe just a little better?

Christian capitalism is our best chance for that.

annatar1914 wrote:You sure do make that phrase of yours come out as blasphemy, don't you? Oh well, you're hoping that there will be war in the Middle East with millions of casualties (especially Muslims and Jews and Christians who aren't Protestants) so God can rapture you and your loved ones out of harms way and escape natural death, right?

I am hoping for peace, but I am very doubtful that will happen until Christ returns in His glory.
#15034169
I was referring to the would be Democrat Socialist candidates for U.S. President. Some promise free healthcare, free college education, free child care, and even free income.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/michael ... ren-booker


I don't know how many times I or someone else has to tell you, but if someone is not planning on having public ownership of the means of economic production in a society, they're not Socialists, they're something else.


Well, I don't wish to live in a socialist country like Venezuela, Cuba, or North Korea where the leaders hoard everything.


Venezuela is NOT a Socialist country.

Cuba is under embargo by the United States, but is Socialist, and still surviving despite the embargo.

North Korea is neither Communist nor Socialist, it is ''Juche'' in political Ideology;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche

And it's been that way since the 1960's. Even so, it's a country like this in daily life;




Yes, I would rather be able to pay all my bills.


Again, in a Socialist country, you ''pay your bills'' by working, and the utilities are paid for the individual. How is that not better?

Because that is the decent and fair thing to do.


Can you rationally explain why it is ''decent and better''? I don't believe that you can.

Christian capitalism is our best chance for that.


Capitalism isn't Christian.


I am hoping for peace, but I am very doubtful that will happen until Christ returns in His glory.


I'll remember you said that next time you're praising Israel for shooting unarmed kids from a distance with sniper rifles. And of course, you couldn't care less about the Saudi genocide of Yemenis in Yemen...''Muslims killing Muslims'', right? :roll:
Another school shooting

True, facts are stubborn and you made a decisi[…]

That most on the left believe that wealth is a z[…]

Ukrainegate

On the contrary, they are subjecting testimony […]

France??? As for the SU, not the ones who confor[…]