[Istanbuller]

You are completely out of touch with reality. It is why I described what you wrote as "wishful thinking".

1. Turkey's economy is not bankrupt. It is a regular currency crisis which is happening almost in every country is identified as "developing". Have you ever heard of "spending against the wind" and war time economy? You should read John Maynard Keynes. Turkey's military spending will just increasize size of the economy. It will help the economy considering that reward is oil and gas fields.

2. Your comments on Turkey's military equipment and how it matches with your country is very comical. Turkey produces more than %80 of its military equipment itself. We are producing our own stealth fighter jet. I want to repeat myself: "You can't survive for hours".

[Beren]

Germany is no ally to Turkey. It is why Germany has blocked Turkey's EU membership. Germany wouldn't want see a strong and armed Turkey.

Germany has blocked Turkey's EU membership mainly because it would cost them too much, I guess.

Merkel doesn't want to see an armed Germany either, so she doesn't mean to antagonise Turkey that way.

Turkey will not pull out of NATO in any case and scenario. TAF is the second most important army in NATO. Turkey functions as a bridge between NATO and external countries like Russia and China.

So it's still better for you to be in NATO, although Turkey is strong and Erdogan is brilliant, so much so that "Turkey is capable of forcing its will on anyone in the region." Meanwhile, NATO sides with Greece against Turkey, despite of the Greeks being wrong and malevolent and the Turks being right, constructive and basically peaceful. Germany's like an enemy, France conducts naval exercises with Greece, while Biden wants Erdogan to go and even Trump was threatening the Turkish with screwing their economy. But they still swallow their pride and remain in the club because they mean to be a bridge between the West and Russia & China.

[Istanbuller]

So it's still better for you to be in NATO, although Turkey is strong and Erdogan is brilliant, so much so that "Turkey is capable of forcing its will on anyone in the region." Meanwhile, NATO sides with Greece against Turkey, despite of the Greeks being wrong and malevolent and the Turks being right, constructive and basically peaceful. Germany's like an enemy, France conducts naval exercises with Greece, while Biden wants Erdogan to go and even Trump were threatening the Turkish with screwing their economy. But they still swallow their pride and remain in the club because they mean to be a bridge between the West and Russia & China.

Being in NATO is better than not being in it. It prevents a direct conflict between Turkey and France and so. It is a shield. It is why Macron gets crazy. He can't attack Turkish forces.

Yes, Turkey main purpose in NATO is being a bridge. It was with Soviet Union first and then today with Russia and China. Turkey has a 70 years of experience of having dual relationship and flexible foreign policy. You people were wondering why Turkey is not being a toast. This is the answer.

[Beren]

Being in NATO is better than not being in it. It prevents a direct conflict between Turkey and France and so. It is a shield. It is why Macron gets crazy. He can't attack Turkish forces.

Yes, Turkey main purpose in NATO is being a bridge. It was with Soviet Union first and then today with Russia and China.

I don't really get this. How would Macron dare attack mighty Turkish forces anyway?

As to the bridge thing, it rather seems like Erdogan just means to be manoeuvring between NATO and Russia & China for his own benefit. However, maybe he's going to end up like Lukashenko someday, who's about to ask big brother to provide him with "comprehensive security assistance."

[Istanbuller]

I don't really get this. How would Macron dare attack mighty Turkish forces anyway?

As to the bridge thing, it rather seems like Erdogan just means to be manoeuvring between NATO and Russia & China for his own benefit. However, maybe he's going to end up like Lukashenko someday, who's about to ask big brother to provide him with "comprehensive security assistance."

You would already know spat between Turkey and France over Libya and eastern mediterranean if you read news.

Read this again. It will answer your questions.

Yes, Turkey main purpose in NATO is being a bridge. It was with Soviet Union first and then today with Russia and China. Turkey has a 70 years of experience of having dual relationship and flexible foreign policy. You people were wondering why Turkey is not being a toast. This is the answer.

[Beren]

You would already know spat between Turkey and France over Libya and eastern mediterranean if you read news.

Read this again. It will answer your questions.

I just meant to be sarcastic about usual Turkish posturing.

[Istanbuller]

I just meant to be sarcastic about usual Turkish posturing.

Actually underestimation helps us. You think I am weak but the reality is different. It is funny.

[Beren]

Actually underestimation helps us. You think I am weak but the reality is different. It is funny.

However, neither you nor Erdogan seems to favour being "underestimated."

[Istanbuller]

However, neither you nor Erdogan seems to favour being "underestimated."

I know It sounds like I am talking fake when I get too much nationalistic. But most posters here do the opposite when they are talking about Turkey. So most of time, we are not able to find a middle grounds between two arguments.

[noemon]

2. Your comments on Turkey's military equipment and how it matches with your country is very comical. Turkey produces more than %80 of its military equipment itself. We are producing our own stealth fighter jet. I want to repeat myself: "You can't survive for hours".

Mate honestly...get a grip with reality. You are not producing anything more than we do other than some cheap low-grade swarm drones. Your rifles, bullets and ammo are German produced in Turkey under license, same as in Greece produced in Greece under license. Our tanks for both countries are the same German tanks, our fighter jets exactly the same in quantity and quality. Our naval frigates the same. We had the advantage of having the S-300, now you have the S-400.

But you do not seem to get it, you have not faced an army like this since WW1, you fight cheap rebels with no weapons, little planning and backing. You do not pick fights with armies likes this because the odds are very evenly matched to have enough confidence of success.

And your economy is tanking for the past year with COVID or no COVID, you will be bankrupt very soon.

Lastly, you are totally day-dreaming thinking you will ever grab 'gas or petrol rich territory' away from Greece and the EU. The only thing you will succeed in doing if you go to war would be to unify Europe & the west to destroy you and finish off what we started when we occupied Istanbul back in 1920, and just to throw back what you told me, this is something that can be done in hours when the Western dogs set their eyes on the Turkish puppy. You exemplify the level of propaganda and arrogance that Erdogan has distilled upon the Turkish population.

[Istanbuller]

Are you serious?

[noemon]

Absolutely serious. Your rifles and ammo are all German, G3's, HK11's produced in Turkey under license, same for Greece, your tanks are German Leopards, various parts produced in Turkey under license, identical tanks, parts and deal for Greece produced in Greece under license. You have under 200 F-16 we have under 200 F-16. We have Patriot missiles, you are trying to produce your own for the past 2 decades with little success to match them. You have 16 frigates(actually 15 now cause we already knocked one of your best ones out), we have 13 and 25% of the global commercial fleet along with thousands of years of naval experience meaning that we have not lost a naval battle in our modern history.

These are not good odds for a Turk used to fighting Kurdish rebels, even more so when you are both legally & ethically wrong.

[Istanbuller]

It is again your "wishful thinking".

Turkey has numerous and very much diversified military equipments. Some may be matching with NATO partners equipment but Turkey is moving toward another direction. G3 and HK11s are already being replaced by our national rifle called MPT-76. We also have Leopards but we have not many of them. Our tanks are mostly American. We also have our own tanks called Altay. Turkey is the third largest F-16 operator in the world.

Check these links below to see how Turkey has numerical and technological advantage. You are not Turkey's match. Stop trying to sell yourself as one.

https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_Greece_vs_Turkey
https://www.defenceturk.net/turk-savunm ... i-urunleri

[noemon]

The first link confirms exactly what I already told you. The second Turkish link I am not sure what the point of it actually is.

The American tanks you refer to are old and unusable, only the Leopards are battle-worthy. The same goes for the majority of the extra equipment you have there. You have less than 150 operational and updated F-16's.

The operational tanks, frigates and airplanes are evenly matched between Greece and Turkey and have been for decades for precisely this reason.

[Istanbuller]

It doesn't prove your false claims. It shows how Turkey is numerically and technologically greater. The second link shows our national military equipments. Most of them are already being actively used in Libya, Syria and Iraq.

Our tanks are regularly being updated alongside with F-16 fighter jets. We are just behind the US and Israel in terms of F-16 usage. It will be replaced with national fighter jets which is in development process. We have already our national tank called Altay. It is almost ready to go into serial production.

Our military equipments and a huge majority of new products are nationally produced. The point is "Turkey can target another NATO member which is very likely you".

[noemon]

From your link: https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_Greece_vs_Turkey

Tanks:
Greece: 353 new Leopards 501 old Leopards.
Turkey: 344 new Leopards 397 old Leopards.

Fighter Jets:
Greece: 198
Turkey: 245

Doubtful more than 150 of both of ours can fly.

Frigates:
Greece: 13
Turkey: 15

Submarines:

Greece: 11
Turkey: 12
4 of our submarines are stealth and as good as they get, all 12 of yours are old.

As I said, it proves exactly what I told you before. Tanks, Jets, Frigates & Submarines as well as rifles, ammo are evenly matched between Greece & Turkey. They have been for decades. This should also inform you that your extra population/army reserves is worthless because there are no more tanks, planes and ships for them to drive, at best all they can be is cannon-fodder.

These numbers mean that you will pay a very heavy price regardless of outcome. You have your plan and we have ours. Lots of damage will be inflicted.

[Istanbuller]

We are not same. There are 7 defence industry companies from Turkey in the list of top 100 defence companies worldwide. I see none from Greece.

https://people.defensenews.com/top-100/

[noemon]

We are not same.

I did not say we were. We are different and we both have our (dis)advantages and our plans. I said that our main battle equipment are evenly matched and that they are. Your native defence industry has been growing indeed but they have not managed to catch up to the US, UK, French, German equipment and you are in the early phase of a transitory period. Perhaps in 10-20 years time you will be in a better position but I highly doubt that will be the case if you remain in this aggressive war path.

[annatar1914]

I did not say we were. We are different and we both have our (dis)advantages and our plans. I said that our main battle equipment are evenly matched and that they are. Your native defence industry has been growing indeed but they have not managed to catch up to the US, UK, French, German equipment and you are in the early phase of a transitory period. Perhaps in 10-20 years time you will be in a better position but I highly doubt that will be the case if you remain in this aggressive war path.

I do not know that given the circumstances that Turkey has any choice but to maintain an aggressive war path. For now they think it pays better.

[Drlee]

As I said, it proves exactly what I told you before. Tanks, Jets, Frigates & Submarines as well as rifles, ammo are evenly matched between Greece & Turkey. They have been for decades. This should also inform you that you extra population/army reserves is worthless because there are no more tanks, planes and ships for them to drive, at best all they can be is cannon-fodd

Turkey had better jump now. Once Biden is president they will get their ass kicked if they try. The USA would back Greece to the hilt. Americans, particularly democrats, do not like Turkey.


Tanks:
Greece: 353 new Leopards 501 old Leopards.
Turkey: 344 new Leopards 397 old Leopards.
USA: 7970 all first rate.

Fighter Jets:
Greece: 198
Turkey: 245
USA: 500 F-15 Strike Eagles, 943 Assorted F-16 variants, 195 F-22 Raptors, 199 F35's Now that's just the Air Force. In y'all's neighborhood we could also sail in: 518 F-18A Super Hornets and 118 F35 carrier variants. Which, Turkey, is something you might like to keep in mind. Your arms industry would not survive the first day of battle and your Air forces would just be good practice.

Doubtful more than 150 of both of ours can fly.

Frigates:
Greece: 13
Turkey: 15
USA: Well. We could discuss 11 Aircraft carriers, 69 destroyers and 22 heavy guided missile cruisers. Then there are all of the support ships and......

Submarines:

Greece: 11
Turkey: 12
Attack subs, all nuclear and all state of the art. 59.

You see the deal is that if Turkey decided to attack Greece, a country we are pledged by treaty to defend, we would simply add our strength to the rest of Nato and well. You may think the US is a paper tiger. Saddam did. And maybe we wouldn't be so hard on Turkey. Maybe instead the EU and other Nato countries would just tank your economy and brush your vaunted military aside.

Troll off.