Turkey & Libya agree to split Greek territory, Libya invites Turkey to send military - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15055628
Istanbuller wrote:Libya is an important front for baring Russia from seizing more control over gas fields and pipeline projects in mediterranean sea.

Europe should be thankful to Turkey for repelling Russia threat.


I am not very sure that Turkey is helping Europe. Doesn't Turkey sometimes join forces with Russia if the situation calls (e.g. Syria)?
#15055687
Atlantis wrote:You said "under Kohl", which means under Kohl's government. Explain how exactly Kohl's government made territorial claims on Poland.
Niemals Oder-Neisse: The Border Germany Refused to Accept for 45 Years
When the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and reunification became possible, the Christian Democrats were still ambivalent. Helmut Kohl, the conservative chancellor at the time, rubbed his allies the wrong way when he conditioned West German acceptance of the Oder-Niesse line on Polish reparations for the Germans who had been expelled in 1945. An international backlash forced Kohl to reconsider.
#15055718
Greece says huge gas pipeline deal with Israel, Cyprus to be signed January 2

Burgeoning alliance comes as Turkey attempts to lay claim to eastern Mediterranean energy reserves

Image
File: Greek Minister of Environment and Energy Kostas Hatzidakis, second left, shakes hands with Israel's Energy Minister Yuval Steinitz, right, as US Assistant Secretary of State for Energy Francis Fannon, second right, and Cyprus's Energy Minister Georgios Lakkotrypis , left, look on during a summit in Athens, August 7, 2019. (AP/Petros Giannakouris)

ATHENS, Greece — The Greek government said Sunday that it will sign an agreement for a huge pipeline project with Cyprus and Israel next month that is designed to ship gas from the eastern Mediterranean to Europe.

The move comes amid tensions with Turkey over its own activities in the area and a contentious maritime deal with Libya, expanding Ankara’s claims over a large gas-rich area of the sea.

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis’s office said the agreement for the EastMed pipeline would be signed in Athens on January 2 with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Cypriot President Nicos Anastasiades.
The 2,000-kilometer (1,200-mile) pipeline will be able to transfer between nine and 12 billion cubic meters a year from offshore gas reserves between Israel and Cyprus to Greece, and then on to Italy and other southeastern European countries.

The discovery of hydrocarbon reserves in the eastern Mediterranean has sparked a scramble for the energy riches and a dispute between Cyprus and Turkey, which has occupied the north of the Mediterranean island since 1974.

Turkey already faces European Union sanctions over ships searching for oil and gas off Cyprus, whose internationally recognized government in Nicosia is not recognized by Ankara.

The EastMed project is expected to make Cyprus, Greece and Israel key links in Europe’s energy supply chain and aims to stymie Turkey’s effort to extend its control to the eastern Mediterranean.

“It is really important that the countries showed they can react quickly against Turkey’s provocative stance,” Greek government spokesman Stelios Petsas said.

Greece responded angrily to the Turkey-Libya deal, expelling the Libyan ambassador and urging the UN to condemn it.

Part of the deal sets a maritime boundary between the two countries, which Greece says fails to take into account the island of Crete.

Image
The Leviathan natural gas platform off the shore of Israel. (Albatross)

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said earlier this month that he envisaged joint energy exploration activities with Libya in the eastern Mediterranean.

Turkey already has ships searching for oil and gas off Cyprus, and says the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus — recognized only by Ankara — has the right to explore around the entire island.

“The EastMed pipeline agreement will go forward despite what Erdogan says,” Greek Energy and Environment Minister Kostis Hatzidakis said Sunday.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/greece-sa ... january-2/
#15055783
@Potemkin, so it took you a few days Googling to come up with something I could have told you in the beginning.

The text you link confirms my argument on the topic we were discussing. You just quoted the wrong passage.

Since 2004, when Poland joined the European Union, the border that was once so contested has existed only on paper. 670,000 Polish nationals now live and work in Germany.


In the absence of a peace treaty, Germany always rejected the post-war partitioning of the country; however, Willy Brandt's Ostpolitik led to the de facto recognition of the GDR (and therefore the Oder-Neisse border) in the 1970s. In the 80s people had given up on the idea of German reunification (rendering the issue of the Oder-Neisse border mute), but when reunification did come unexpectedly, Kohl had to concentrate all his efforts to overcome British opposition to reunification. He certainly would not have pushed further to make any territorial claims on Poland.

History has proved that he was perfectly right to make the official recognition of the Oder-Neisse border conditional on a post-war settlement to stop the Poles from demanding war reparations for all eternity. That doesn’t of course stop Polish nationalists from pulling the reparations demands out of the hat to stir nationalistic hatred ahead of elections.

And why should we have to wipe the ethnic cleansing of over 30 million ethnic Germans under the carpet at a time we keep on discussing the Armenian genocide that happened more than a century ago?

I can’t even blame you for your biased view of history because you have never known anything but the brainwashing from the British media which is profoundly imbued with anti-German and anti-EU propaganda.
#15055796
Greece starts policing North Macedonian airspace today. Bulgaria has also outsourced the policing of its airspace to Greece since 2014. While Albania and Montenegro have outsourced the policing of their airspace to Greece & Italy since last year.
#15057116
Libya's Parliament does not want Turkish involvement.

On the 20th of December, the US(and you favourite President Trump) passed the East-Med act(that enjoyed bi-partisan support) which imposes sanctions on Turkish companies, lifts the arms embargo against Cyprus, deepens and widens military partnership between the US, Cyprus & Greece and isolates Turkey on the matter.

The EU has also imposed sanctions against Turkey for her actions in Cypriot waters and is about to impose further sanctions for her cowboy actions with Libya.

#15057143
Patrickov wrote:I am not very sure that Turkey is helping Europe. Doesn't Turkey sometimes join forces with Russia if the situation calls (e.g. Syria)?


I suspect Erdogan will sit down with Putin and say, "You want to restore the Soviet Union. I want to restore the Ottoman Empire. Let's not get in each other's way. Rather, let's see what we can do to help each other."
#15057724
noemon wrote:Libya's Parliament does not want Turkish involvement.

On the 20th of December, the US(and you favourite President Trump) passed the East-Med act(that enjoyed bi-partisan support) which imposes sanctions on Turkish companies, lifts the arms embargo against Cyprus, deepens and widens military partnership between the US, Cyprus & Greece and isolates Turkey on the matter.

The EU has also imposed sanctions against Turkey for her actions in Cypriot waters and is about to impose further sanctions for her cowboy actions with Libya.

Libya's internationally recognized government wants Turkish army to intervene.

Donald Trump is in support of Turkey. He always say that. It is reckless anti-Trumpists want to make Turkey-US relations bad. Erdoğan previously warned Donald Trump about Obama diplomats still in charge of US foreign policy.

Turkey and US have a lot of things to do together against both Russia and China. It is US's interest to have a strategic and more close relationship with a country gaining momentum like Turkey.
#15058087
Haftar Declares ‘Jihad’ against Turkish Military Intervention as UN Chief Calls for Ceasefire
Saturday, 4 January, 2020 - 06:15

A Libyan man carries a picture of Khalifa Haftar during a demonstration to support Libyan National Army offensive against Tripoli, in Benghazi, Libya April 12, 2019. (Reuters)
Asharq Al-Awsat
Libyan National Army (LNA) commander Khalifa Haftar declared on Friday “jihad” against any Turkish military intervention in Libya.

Speaking from the eastern city of Benghazi, he said: “We declare jihad and complete mobilization. Every free Libyan must carry arms, men and women, military and civilian, to defend our territories and honor.”

“The enemy is amassing its troops today to invade Libya and enslave our people once again. He has found traitors that have signed an agreement of humiliation and disgrace without any popular, constitutional or moral backing,” he added.

“The traitors have scrambled to their masters to appeal for relief and help after they were overwhelmed from all sides,” he said of the LNA’s offensive against criminal gangs and militias loyal to the Government of National Accord in Tripoli.

Turkey’s parliament on Thursday authorized the deployment of troops to Libya to support the GNA.

Ankara says the deployment is vital for Turkey to safeguard its interests in Libya and in the eastern Mediterranean, where it finds itself increasingly isolated as Greece, Cyprus, Egypt and Israel have established exclusive economic zones paving the way for oil and gas exploration.

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres on Friday called again for an immediate ceasefire in Libya and a return to talks by all the warring parties.

The UN chief warned in a statement from his deputy spokesman that “any foreign support to the warring parties will only deepen the ongoing conflict and further complicate efforts to reach a peaceful and comprehensive political solution.”

The Turkish parliament’s decision to deploy troops was condemned by neighboring Egypt in what its foreign ministry called “the strongest language.”

The leaders of Greece, Israel and Cyprus also denounced the move as a “dangerous threat to regional stability" and a “dangerous escalation” of the Libyan conflict that violates UN resolutions and undermines international peace efforts.

Guterres reiterated that continued violations of the UN arms embargo in Libya “only makes matters worse,” UN deputy spokesman Farhan Haq said.

The UN chief stressed that “strict adherence to the embargo is essential for creating an environment favorable to a cessation of hostilities,” Haq said.

Source
#15058088
@Drlee

Drlee wrote:Turkey has become a pariah state. The sooner it is booted from NATO the better.


I completely agree. The main reason we had them in NATO in the past is because of their strategic location by the Black Sea. Turkey has been trying to play us and the Russians against each other.
#15059127
Istanbuller wrote:Libya is an important front for baring Russia from seizing more control over gas fields and pipeline projects in mediterranean sea.

Europe should be thankful to Turkey for repelling Russia threat.

Agreed. And not only that, but as a Western NATO lapdog, Greece has sit by and watch its Northern White Supremacist neighbors destroy and invade its Eastern and Southern neighbors for a long time.

Now, it has terrible relations with most of them, except Israel and a few kingdoms. Maybe Turkey-Libya will do a better job of protecting all those many cultures that haven't been bombed and sanctioned to death yet - by Greece's bestest buddies.
#15059130
QatzelOk wrote:Agreed. And not only that, but as a Western NATO lapdog, Greece has sit by and watch its Northern White Supremacist neighbors destroy and invade its Eastern and Southern neighbors for a long time.

Now, it has terrible relations with most of them, except Israel and a few kingdoms. Maybe Turkey-Libya will do a better job of protecting all those many cultures that haven't been bombed and sanctioned to death yet - by Greece's bestest buddies.


Haftar is taking over Libya, quickly. The Turks won't get their foot in the door in Libya anytime soon , if ever again. Then he'll turn off the migration into Europe spigot.
#15059133
annatar1914 wrote:Haftar is taking over Libya, quickly.

You can't speculate about anything regarding this.

If Haftar "wins," he's probably a Western vassal, and thus won't last long.
If he "wins," he could then change direction and ally with this Eastern neighbors all of a sudden.
If he doesn't "win," - you have no predictions.
And the West is increasinglly unable to fund mercenaries, let along sustain another violent colonization project
Europeans will by cleaning toilets for tourists soon as they can't really afford any blowback from all of this.

Checkmate, if you want it
#15059140
If Haftar "wins," he's probably a Western vassal, and thus won't last long.



Haftar will win, because he's aided by the Egyptians and the Russians, hardly a Western vassal, but not unacceptable to the West all the same.


If he "wins," he could then change direction and ally with this Eastern neighbors all of a sudden.


As I said, he's aided by the Egyptians and by Russian security contractors.



If he doesn't "win," - you have no predictions.


It's a done deal-he's already toured a number of European capitals and talked to various governments.



And the West is increasinglly unable to fund mercenaries, let along sustain another violent colonization project


It's those folks Haftar is fighting against.



Europeans will by cleaning toilets for tourists soon as they can't really afford any blowback from all of this.


Haftar will end the blowback caused by the West's overthrow of Gaddafi, which was the mass immigration out of the Middle East and Africa via Libyan ports. He will stop that after he wins.

Checkmate, if you want it


Don't call the game yet, not until you understand the pieces left at your disposal, and what they can and cannot do ;)
#15059150
Heisenberg wrote:It's probably worth mentioning that Turkey wouldn't even be in a position to be talking about turning Libya into a vassal state if Cameron and Sarkozy hadn't turned it into a den of ISIS militants in the first place.


Putin, the Mullahs, Erdogan, they all benefit from the imperialist overreach of the neocons. They don't have to do a thing. They can just wait for the neocon's ill-advised interventions to fail and then move into the vacuum at minimal cost. For them it's win-win all the way.

The funny thing is that one would expect the neocons to start learning at one point or other. But no, nothing doing! They are totally immune to any form of intelligence. They just continue the same failed policies to close in on the big price: Iran, with dumb Trump doing their bidding. It's as if they were on autopilot, the US doesn't even need the oil from the ME any longer. Perhaps somebody forgot to tell them. Or it's become a habit like smoking that's hard to kick ... :?:
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