[Politics_Observer]

@Drlee

Yeah, if I was the US government I would have serious national security concerns with the UK being willing to do business with Huawei because of the fact a lot of these Chinese companies spy on behalf of the Chinese government. Given that is the case, the US is going to have to be very careful about sharing intelligence with the UK to be sure such intelligence doesn't fall into Chinese hands. This could very well mean not sharing intelligence with the UK at all depending on the situation and circumstances. I would think the UK would take such a scenario seriously. Besides, I would assume the UK wouldn't want Huawei in their country given the reputation of Chinese companies to spy on behalf of the Chinese government given that they would want to protect their own secrets too. I guess this is a case of "money talks, bullshit walks."

[Atlantis]

I would have serious national security concerns with the UK being willing to do business with Huawei because of the fact a lot of these Chinese companies spy on behalf of the Chinese government.

We don't know if the Chinese spy on us. What we do know for a fact is that the Americans spy on us. We knew that even before Snowden's revelations of US mass observation. Merkel's mobile phone is just the tip of the iceberg. There are numerous cases of industrial secrets stolen from German companies that were passed to their American competitors.

The only way of protecting us from spying is by allowing the greatest number of competitors and by making market access conditional on rigorous requirements including technology transfers and maximum transparency.

By excluding Huawei, Trump condemns the US to failure. By excluding the technically most advanced competitor, the US will fall behind its international rivals.

The SU of the 21st century will be the US.

[Patrickov]

We don't know if the Chinese spy on us. What we do know for a fact is that the Americans spy on us. We knew that even before Snowden's revelations of US mass observation. Merkel's mobile phone is just the tip of the iceberg. There are numerous cases of industrial secrets stolen from German companies that were passed to their American competitors.

Maybe the "we know" part is actually what makes it better. Spying someone, concealing the stuff, and reveals their threat at the most inconvenient time is the worst nightmare.

Besides, both of us are aware of how bad the Chinese government (and sometimes people) is. Among the two of us, I can, occasionally, be the person less critical to China ...

By excluding Huawei, Trump condemns the US to failure. By excluding the technically most advanced competitor, the US will fall behind its international rivals.

This is disputable. What I heard is that China still has to depend on Americans on the ICs, which AFAIK is the root dependency of whatever they have developed. In other words, their technology is useless if they have no ability to make their own IC's (or anything equivalent) of comparable quality, functionality and performance.

Oh, it's Bloomberg who hinted that...

[Heisenberg]

It looks like, on the brink of Brexit, Boris Johnson is kicking sand in the face of the US on two fronts.

First is the 5G deal he is set to make with China. This despite very serious and completely justifiable lobbying by the US over security concerns.

The second is his bluff and blustering over the diplomatic immunity issue.

The UK needs trade deals very badly right now. You can rest assured that if Boris goes ahead with the Huawei deal Trump is going to extract a heavy price for it. We are not just talking the end of intelligence sharing here but even perhaps difficult trade relations.

The UK exported $110 billion to the US last year. We exported $125 billion to the UK. Care to guess who can afford to push his position?

Trump is not a man to be trifled with over trade. He is looking for ways to look tough and this one is ready-made to let him do it.

I love the UK. Go there whenever I can. In all kindness I would recommend that Johnson pipe down. This is not the time to even allow the threat of a trade war not to mention a diplomatic row.

This sums up the "Special Relationship" quite nicely. We love you so, so much, but do exactly as we say or else we will destroy you.

I really wish Britain had more self-respect and told the Americans to piss off once in a while. I loathe Boris Johnson, but if he sticks to his guns on this issue he will have my full support in doing so.

[Political Interest]

Allowing Huawei into the UK is extremely naive. You can be certain if it was a Russian company there would be no possiblity.

But the UK has in the last five years gone out of its way to court China.

This is the beginning of China extending its influence into the Western hemisphere. We will see more of this over the next 40 to 50 years.

[Patrickov]

This is the beginning of China extending its influence into the Western hemisphere.

We will see more of this over the next 40 to 50 years.

Given that China doesn't implode, that is.

It is already facing a threat of societal collapse now.

[B0ycey]

Allowing Huawei into the UK is extremely naive. You can be certain if it was a Russian company there would be no possiblity.

Well it isn't naive because their role is limited. Clearly Johnson has listened to Trump, understood the risk and acted accordingly. What Trump wanted was total control and dominance with UK technology under the guise of a security risk to get it. The UK wanted the best deal. China were the best deal. So it makes sense to work with them. This isn't about spitting in the face of America or putting Trump in his place. This is about what is best for the UK.

[Drlee]

Some times doing the best thing for Britain does not come down to saving sixpence a phone.

[skinster]

But Boycey we're not supposed to consider our own interests when the U.S. is involved...perish the thought!

[Drlee]

@skinster But Boycey we're not supposed to consider our own interests when the U.S. is involved...perish the thought!

I completely agree. Losing access to the largest and most comprehensive intelligence gathering network in the world is completely worth it. You can just increase spending on your own.

[skinster]

We have that intelligence/spying shit already over here.

The further away we move from the U.S., the better. Who wants to be a part of the Empire in decline when China is an option?

[Drlee]

Well there is that Skinster. There is no doubt China is on a roll.

[B0ycey]

Some times doing the best thing for Britain does not come down to saving sixpence a phone.

Well isn't the whole point of Capitalism about saving a sixpence on a phone? I think Adams called it "Self Interest"

If the UK is taking the security issue seriously and only offering Huawei specific contracts to minimise risk, what is left to discount them? It is like the UK demanding the US buy North Sea Oil because Iran are a security risk.

[Heisenberg]

I completely agree. Losing access to the largest and most comprehensive intelligence gathering network in the world is completely worth it. You can just increase spending on your own.

"Friends" don't blackmail each other. And if there is one thing your pudding-brained oaf of a president understands/respects, it's people who push back against him.

Besides, given how US "intelligence" has performed over the last 20 years, "losing access" to it might not be the worst thing.

Who wants to be a part of the Empire in decline when China is an option?

I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.

[Heisenberg]

Delete. Double post

[skinster]

My friend has his toddler-girl learning Mandarin/Cantonese because he believes China is the future.

[Political Interest]

Given that China doesn't implode, that is.

It is already facing a threat of societal collapse now.

I don't think they will implode.

Well it isn't naive because their role is limited. Clearly Johnson has listened to Trump, understood the risk and acted accordingly. What Trump wanted was total control and dominance with UK technology under the guise of a security risk to get it. The UK wanted the best deal. China were the best deal. So it makes sense to work with them. This isn't about spitting in the face of America or putting Trump in his place. This is about what is best for the UK.

It's just if this was a Russian company there would be no chance at all. The British elite are extremely Russophobic but seem to have this strange Sinophilia.

The further away we move from the U.S., the better. Who wants to be a part of the Empire in decline when China is an option?

China and America are very similar. America is not the best option but can we say China is much better? The UK's first allies should be France, Germany and Russia. China's foreign policy in Asia has not been the most ethical either. Support for Khmer Rouge, for example.

The world stays absolutely silent about what is happening to Uyghurs in Xinjiang.

[skinster]

Might get Chinese take-out for dinner, in honour of this thread. Speaking of honour, Chinese people know a lot about honour, whereas Americans can't spell the word properly.

[Patrickov]

The world stays absolutely silent about what is happening to Uyghurs in Xinjiang.

To be fair, the Chinese Communist Party does not care for any race, including Han Chinese no less.

[B0ycey]

It's just if this was a Russian company there would be no chance at all. The British elite are extremely Russophobic but seem to have this strange Sinophilia.

They are fine because they have limited the risk. China will have no ability to spy making any deal between the UK and China solely business based and not political based.

Nonetheless the UK seem fine with Russia in terms of football and business. Although clearly this is an assumption to say Russia would be ousted from any potential deal as they are behind in the tech sector compared to America and China to suggest this.

Having said that Americas real issue with Huawei is that it is state run. It is a project that shows how a Socialist run company can perform better than one run off the free market. And clearly it is the USs ambition to defeat this project because of their Cold War mentality. The UK on the other hand just want the best deal.