[anasawad]

@noemon

You have a made a wrong argument from pages back in which you stated that: "If Europe does not want immigrants then she should stop funding the clerics in Iran". Your argument has been proven wrong from every single side because:

No it hasn't. The main fighting force is the clerics and their militias, and they're the main creator of refugees.
I have provided evidence for it, and you have not only not refuted it but haven't provided a single point to disprove it.

b) You have not shown any evidence that these militias are being funded by Europe as you claimed to support this tangent you brought forward.

Well, if the EU is a major trading partner and investor in Iran, and all the US sanctions targetting individuals and companies funding militias like Hezbollah are somehow done through Europe, then the funding must be coming from Brazil or south Africa. Right?

EU trade in Iran is less than the trade Iran does with the UAE a country of less than 10mil, which you now paint as the banking hub of the ME when in your previous posts you blamed EU banks for funding Iran

Paint it? Banking is the main industry in the UAE after oil.
And the UAE along with all other gulf states have blocked any activety relating to the Quds forces for years now.
The only source of income remaining for the Quds forces which is essentially the IRGC and its militias is through companies and business men doing business in and with Europe, which the US is targetting with sanctions now.

How exactly are you not able to understand this?

then you also brought forward a sentence that says that Europe(including Turkey) has invested in Iran 10 billion during the period 1992-2008. You should be able to tell yourself why that does not prove your argument right in the slightest(see timeline for example 1992-2008 and the fact that Turkey is included in category of European FDI), I am letting you know that it doesn't prove your argument right, neither the main argument itself nor the tangent that you have gone off.

So, you either haven't read it at all or trying to strawman it. good to know.
The Period in question is from 2015 till present, and the size of the total investment is over 10 billion with Germany and Spain putting 7 billion of them alone.
Turkey along with 20 other European countries put the remaining 3 billion.

c) Europe has sanctions against Iran, while Turkey is the country Iran uses to bypass the sanctions against it.

Europe is a trading partner with Iran, while Turkey is atleast a rival.
And Iran uses Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon to bypass the sanctions, not Turkey.

hy on earth would we blame Iran for the open actions of the Turkish police and government? Are you all there mate?

Dude, the whole fucking refugee crisis is because people are fleeing ethnic cleansing and war crimes done by the IRGC and its militias in Syria.
Turkey is a second mover, meaning it's responding to the crisis caused by the Quds forces, not creating it.

And as far as I and everyone else in Europe views it, currently it is Turkey, Turkish backed militias that are responsible for the crisis in Syria.

Then clearly everyone else in Europe is blind, because the refugee crisis and flow began years before Turkey got involved, and currently it started in Aleppo with ethnic cleansing (The topic that everyone was discussing just a few months ago and the UN was demanding action to stop it) with Turkey interfering to stop it before reaching Idlib.
The current refugee flow began before the Turkish invasion.

Turkey is the last foreign man standing in Syria fighting Syrians and their legitimate government. And clearly not for very long.

Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Afghanistan, Russia, etc.
Clearly Turkey is the only foreign force in Syria.

Turkey is at present the source of the crisis in Syria.

The source of the crisis is the ethnic cleansing done by the regime and it began before Turkish invasion.

She is the last foreign man standing in Syria fighting Syrians and their legitimate government.

Fighting Syrians my ass.
Boy, there more Lebanese and Iraqi fighters fighting Turkey and its Syrian allies than there are Syrians.

You seem to have a short memory but Syria was fine before this and she will be fine again when all the foreign meddlers leave and let Syria return to normality.

No honey, it's more like you have no memory at all of what Syria was before.
Before the war, Syria was a fascist country that was under never-ending military rule with this military routinely committing massacres against any area that dares to oppose it.
And for those "foreign meddlers", you probably should be looking at Iran, Iraqi Hezbollah and Hashd, and Lebanese Hezbollah and their military presence all over Syria more so than that tiny corner with Turkish presence.

You are arguing that Europe should help Turkey maintain her losing presence and her ISIS proxy presence in Syria!!! When in fact that is the source of the problem in Syria.

ISIS proxy?

Listen, you can keep repeating how Turkey is the source of the problem for ever, it wont change the very simple fact that the crisis began almost a full year before Turkey even went in.

Turkey has already failed in her war in Syria and has signed a capitulation with Russia, her days in Syria are numbered. None of this exaggerating nonsense will happen but even if it does happen, that is her problem, not ours. Actually most people would welcome a weak Turkey since she is an irredentist and revanchist state with aggressive territorial ambitions against us, Turkey being taught a lesson is most welcome. Europe's problem is only to secure her borders not to rescue Erdogan from humiliation.

That "nonsense" conflict that has been going on for around 2-3 decades now and is beginning to flare up again?

Also, I really advice looking up why Turkey was invited into NATO.

It would be a better conversation if you actually used the proper words to refer to the actors you speak of and you do not conflate actors in a movie. The EU did not participate in Syria, France & the UK did and the EU has already hosted millions of Syrians and has paid billions to Turkey for these refuggees even though the EU itself has done nothing in Syria.

And I'm guessing France, the UK, and Belgium are not in the EU?
The EU as a whole hosted less than 2 million refugees, less than either Lebanon or Jordan has taken.
And the EU paid 2 billion to Turkey to safe gaurd its borders when it committed to paying 7.

Finally, if the EU isn't responsible, then maybe it should police its members then. When you're in a union, the actions of one will reflect on all.

Syria was fine before all this mess started and will be fine again when every foreign meddler leaves the country to heal.

It wont be fine, nor will it repair and rebuild.
over half the population left and not planning to go back under Baath and IRGC rule.
The ethnic cleansing will continue, but I guess once they're dead, they wont make any noise so that would be fine by outsiders.
And the country is destroyed and under the full control of the IRGC which has an interest in keeping it destroyed.

First of all, that is not true and if you want to be taken seriously you ought to provide evidence to support your arguments. The evidence says otherwise. The EU pledged 6 billion not 7 and has released half of that money because she is monitoring where the money is being spent, hence the process has been slow.

I said around 7 billion because the amount is 6.7B.

Also, Turkey claims it only received 1.8B, but anyways.
Noting that not only the amount is not enough to do anything, but also is done through 4 years which is why Turkey decided fuck it and took things into its own hands to relocate refugees back into northern Syria.

As you are aware beggars cannot be choosers.

It's not beggers when each side has to do something for the other. If the EU doesn't stick to its own commitment, then Turkey has no obligation to keep hosting millions of refugees and not simply open the borders.

Second, even if it were true and the EU was being funny with the money, even better. The EU has no obligation to Turkey whatsoever. As I said before the EU did not involve herself in Syria and has no obligation to the mess created. The countries that did, EU or otherwise do have this obligation and after they all remove themselves from Syria they should all sit at a table and figure out who is going to foot the bill for the mess that they created.

Sure, and since EU members were involved, then I guess it's the EU's responsibility to tell them to go foot the bill instead of throwing responsibility on the whole union.

You are telling a Greek to vote that the Turkish army will be protecting people in Syria.

Yes, and Greeks aren't the only ones with bad history with the Turks, but it comes at times we should look beyond our own nationalistic tendencies and take things more logically.

If Europeans and Greeks don't trust Turkish forces to establish the safe zone, then back in 2015 when a safe zone was proposed, they should all have voted for the UN forces to establish the zone and safe gaurd it.

I am not interested into your anti-Assad propaganda, we already have a thread for that and I am warning you now not to turn this thread into that.

It's not "propaganda", when a piece of the army splits off and starts to fight the government, we call that a coup.

Syria would heal and normality would return. Great!

More so would be a country that lost half its population, destroyed, and under foreign occupation.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Last time I checked the people were never even asked. Israel send them our way because they know they have their ilk and pets sitting in high positions. It has always been a dream and goal of Jewish fanatics to transform Europe into something unrecognizable.

They dont need to be asked because they are illegals and they have no rights.

Its true that the Jews in Europe and America are promoting multiculturalism and immigration but they are not working with Israel
The EU is not our friend this is a globalist entity that is a threat not only to Europe but to all nation states

[Code Rood]

Smart. Not everyone in Israel is committed to national extinction like Western Europe seems to be.

Israel is basically an ethno-state. They do DNA-testing to see if you're Jewish enough. You can't just walk in there, calling yourself a refugee, with new clothes on your back and a smartphone in your hand, and expect to be given a house before actual citizens. That only happens in Western Europe. Identities of Europe are allowed to be questioned, violated or denied, and Jewish fanatics are at the forefront in pushing all of this. It's their way of repairing the world. They call it ''Tikkun Olam''.

Jewish fanatics often say that there's no such thing as a Palestinian. They're practically doing the same thing to the people of Europe. Jewish fanatics want their identity to be the only one to thrive and prevail when it's all over. And the rest of us need to follow the Noahide laws, which basically means you become a willing slave of Zion. I advise people to keep an eye on these crazies.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Israel is basically an ethno-state. They do DNA-testing to see if you're Jewish enough. You can't just walk in there, calling yourself a refugee, with new clothes on your back and a smartphone in your hand, and expect to be given a house before actual citizens. That only happens in Western Europe. Identities of Europe are allowed to be questioned, violated or denied, and Jewish fanatics are at the forefront in pushing all of this.

Jewish fanatics often say that there's no such thing as a Palestinian. They're practically doing the same thing to the people of Europe. Jewish fanatics want their identity to be the only one to thrive and prevail when it's all over. And the rest of us need to follow the Noahide laws, which basically means you become a willing slave of Zion. I advise people to keep an eye on these crazies.

There are no DNA testing it was something that was suggested by some crazy rabbi
Europe is suffering of post WW2 trauma and as a result of this war western Europeans are ashamed of ther identity. they invented this new religion of "tolerance" to replace old ideas this was done so Europe wont get back to its old problems and wars but this have created new problems.
this along with technology and life becoming so comfortable that Europeans dont want to reproduce anymore
the death of the Western civilization is coming in no doubt about it unless some events will change this course.

[Code Rood]

Its true that the Jews in Europe and America are promoting multiculturalism and immigration but they are not working with Israel

Who are you trying to convince? Yourself?

Most (if not all) of these powerful pro-Israel types in the West also happen to want more immigration, not to mention other harmful stuff like dragging us into pointless wars that will also cause... immigration. Zionism is globalistic to its core. Besides the fact that it wants to keep Israel Jewish, it really has got nothing to do with nationalism. If Zionism was just all about having a Jewish homeland, you wouldn't have a problem with me.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Who are you trying to convince? Yourself? Most (if not all) of these powerful pro-Israel types in the West also happen to want things like more immigration, not to mention other harmful stuff like dragging us into pointless wars that will also cause... immigration. Zionism is globalistic to its core. Besides the fact that it wants to keep Israel Jewish, it really has got nothing to do with nationalism. If Zionism was just all about having a Jewish homeland, you wouldn't have a problem with me.

Zionism have nothing to do with Globalism. Zionism is secular Jewish nationalism
I dont have a problem with you or with European nationalists
I have problem with EU,Globalists,Socialists their self righteousness the fact that they want to impose their own dysfunctional system on everyone else and their meddling in our affairs

[noemon]

No it hasn't. The main fighting force is the clerics and their militias, and they're the main creator of refugees..... And Iran uses Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon to bypass the sanctions, not Turkey.

False, the main fighting force in Syria is Assad, not the Iranian clerics, but even if they are the bulk of Assad's forces still nobody cares. If they are there by invitation of the ruling government, it is not up to me or up to Europe to meddle in Syria's internal affairs. This is sufficient enough to destroy your argument but if you fail to comprehend the meaning of it due to your allegiances, let me tell you something else.

You keep blaming Iran for the mess in Syria and you keep blaming Europe for doing some trade with Iran and that allegedly this trade is what is financing Iran's activities in Syria.

For the nth time, Turkey is the invading force in Syria, not Iran, Turkey is ethnic-cleansing Kurds in Northern Syria and it is Turkey that is preventing Syria from returning to normality as Turkey is the only uninvited foreign meddler currently in Syria.

Most importantly you blame Europe over Turkey for financing Iran, when in fact Iran uses Turkey to bypass European sanctions

Evidence:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... tions.html
https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... tions.html

I have provided evidence for it, and you have not only not refuted it but haven't provided a single point to disprove it.

You have not provided any evidence just stories out of your own head that make very little sense.

So, you either haven't read it at all or trying to strawman it. good to know.
The Period in question is from 2015 till present, and the size of the total investment is over 10 billion with Germany and Spain putting 7 billion of them alone.
Turkey along with 20 other European countries put the remaining 3 billion.

Excuse me but are you not even reading your own posts? Your post.



See 1992-2008 and no such details about the breakdown of the 10 billion as you claim.

Dude, the whole fucking refugee crisis is because people are fleeing ethnic cleansing and war crimes done by the IRGC and its militias in Syria. Turkey is a second mover, meaning it's responding to the crisis caused by the Quds forces, not creating it.

Turkey is the only uninvited foreign meddler in Syria at present. She is the one and only obstacle for peace and normality to return to Syria.

Then clearly everyone else in Europe is blind, because the refugee crisis and flow began years before Turkey got involved, and currently it started in Aleppo with ethnic cleansing (The topic that everyone was discussing just a few months ago and the UN was demanding action to stop it) with Turkey interfering to stop it before reaching Idlib.
The current refugee flow began before the Turkish invasion.

It started when certain people decided to topple Assad and create war in Syria, first and foremost among them Turkey herself including a couple of EU countries as well. The EU took millions of those people in with open arms and paid billions to Turkey as well, even though the vast majority of EU countries had absolutely nothing to do with the Syrian war and were against it.

Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Afghanistan, Russia, etc.
Clearly Turkey is the only foreign force in Syria. Listen, you can keep repeating how Turkey is the source of the problem for ever, it wont change the very simple fact that the crisis began almost a full year before Turkey even went in.

Turkey and her proxies are indeed the one and only uninvited foreign military in Syria. She is the only one reason peace has not come to Syria yet.

No honey, it's more like you have no memory at all of what Syria was before.
Before the war, Syria was a fascist country that was under never-ending military rule with this military routinely committing massacres against any area that dares to oppose it.
And for those "foreign meddlers", you probably should be looking at Iran, Iraqi Hezbollah and Hashd, and Lebanese Hezbollah and their military presence all over Syria more so than that tiny corner with Turkish presence.

As I said I am not interested in your anti-Assad propaganda. Good luck in trying to convince anyone here that Syria was made better by the civil war. Syria & Lebanon are possibly the only 2 M-E countries were Christians were safe and involved in government, Lebanon more than Syria indeed but Syria more than anyone else in the M-E as well.

The EU as a whole hosted less than 2 million refugees, less than either Lebanon or Jordan has taken.
And the EU paid 2 billion to Turkey to safe gaurd its borders when it committed to paying 7.

The EU has processed over 6 million asylum applications since 2011 of course from other countries as well but the huge plurality of them from Syria indeed and that is just the official refugees not those who come in just like that who are vastly more in numbers. Source. If you estimate that 1 in 4 makes an asylum application that would put the estimate to around 24 million people since 2011 laying about in the EU, vastly more than all of Syria's neighbouring(Muslim) countries combined. For some reason you believe that Europe is obliged to you. She isn't.

Second, the EU pledged 6 billion to Turkey just for the upkeep of refugees and has paid 3 of them. Source. She should not have paid anything though because the EU has no obligation to Turkey and no direct involvement in Syria either. The majority of EU countries were against the war in Syria and those that weren't like France and the UK, they should foot that bill and not the EU.

[anasawad]

@noemon

False, the main fighting force in Syria is Assad, not the Iranian clerics, but even if they are the bulk of Assad's forces still nobody cares. If they are there by invitation of the ruling government, it is not up to me or up to Europe to meddle in Syria's internal affairs. This is sufficient enough to destroy your argument but if you fail to comprehend the meaning of it due to your allegiances, let me tell you something else.

Al Assad regime isn't even being invited to the negotiations regarding its own country, it's safe to say that the Syrian state has effectively lost the country, and, as such, Turkey, Iran, Russia, etc all stand on equal grounds.
So that whole talk about being invited, it went out of the window when the Syrian government no longer had any say in any event in the country.

You keep blaming Iran for the mess in Syria and you keep blaming Europe for doing some trade with Iran and that allegedly this trade is what is financing Iran's activities in Syria.

For the first part, yes, the so called axis of resistence is the main party to blame here.

And for the financing part, no, I specifically specified multiple times over and over again in every post that the IRGC and its militias are the ones depending on Europe to pass their funding.
Iran as a whole have multiple sources of revenues and investments and only a part of it goes into the war, but for the Quds forces, which is the IRGC and its militias all over the region, they take that funding directly and are funded by various businessmen and corporations operating out of Iraq and Lebanon and pouring money into the militias. For those, they mainly operate in Europe as the gulf states have locked them out of everywhere else.
Which is why the US is targetting them in direct sanctions recently.

I specified this several times, but you ignored it.

Excuse me but are you not even reading your own posts?

I was referencing the second source. But either way, apologize for the mistake.

Germany and Spain were the biggest investors in Iran over the period, with more than $3.96 billion and $3.2 billion worth of investments respectively.

https://financialtribune.com/articles/d ... on-in-mena

Turkey is the only uninvited foreign meddler in Syria at present. She is the one and only obstacle for peace and normality to return to Syria.

By peace and normality you mean for the remaining havens to be purged and for the massacre to continue I assume.

Good luck in trying to convince anyone here that Syria was made better by the civil war.

It wasn't made better, but it sure as hell wont get better after now.
Nor was this civil war or coup unexpected, since we've seen the same happen in the 80s and 90s, simply back then Hafez was in charge and he massacred everyone directly so it didn't last this long.

But even if this war ended, another one will soon follow, it usually happens once a decade in Syria under the Baath regime, so don't get your hopes up.

Syria & Lebanon are possibly the only 2 M-E countries were Christians were safe and involved in government, Lebanon more than Syria indeed but Syria more than anyone else in the M-E as well.

Lebanon only.
In Syria no one was safe, everyone had to keep their heads down and not cross the state.
Noting that most Syrian Christians lived in Aleppo and Hama.
Hama is where the massacres in the 80s and 90s took place. So no, Christians aren't "safe" r in Syria than anywhere else.

The EU has processed over 6 million asylum applications since 2011 of course from other countries as well but the huge plurality of them from Syria indeed and that is just the official refugees not those who come in just like that who are vastly more in numbers. Source. If you estimate that 1 in 4 makes an asylum application that would put the estimate to around 24 million people since 2011 laying about in the EU, vastly more than all of Syria's neighbouring(Muslim) countries combined.

That number is clearly exaggerated.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... op_in_2018
At best, the number of all refugees from everywhere in the EU would be equivalent to that of Turkey or Iran alone.
If the number of refugees reached 24 million then the EU would be screaming.
And most Syrian refugees are not in Europe but rather in neighboring countries with Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey holding the most.
Until recently in Aleppo, around half of Syrian refugees were internally displaced until the events in the north began creating a new refugee flow.

For some reason you believe that Europe is obliged to you. She isn't.

1- It's not obliged to me, this isn't about me.
Me and my family are away, Baalbek is beyond reach for anyone, and our areas in Northeastern Iran and Turkmenistan are of the most mountainous and thus my blood is safe from all sides.
So don't worry, there wont be a day coming anytime soon where I or any of my people will come asking for a refuge at anyone's door. (And incase you, or anyone else, wanted to hit me with why you live in Europe, I live in Belarus so we're close to Lina's family who are native, I only have 1 client in the country)
2- It is the EU claiming the humanitarian mantle and moral high ground, then the EU must act on it.

She should not have paid anything though because the EU has no obligation to Turkey and no direct involvement in Syria either. The majority of EU countries were against the war in Syria and those that weren't like France and the UK, they should foot that bill and not the EU.

Good, then get France and the UK to tip in.

[annatar1914]

Israel just sends them our way when necessary. They have their connections with many of these pro-migrant movements in the West.

You're saying that the Israelis have ''connections'' with the pro-migrant groups? I seriously doubt that, you'd have to prove they were not just Jewish (lots of liberal Jews) but Israelis to boot. I'd say the pro-migration groups are in liberal churches and Islamist Mosques and organizations for the most part. No, you'll have to do harder than that to say it's the Israelis fault.

[annatar1914]

Israel is basically an ethno-state.

Do you personally have a problem with ethno-states? And yes or no would suffice as answers for now.

They do DNA-testing to see if you're Jewish enough.

No, they don't, that is an untruth.

You can't just walk in there, calling yourself a refugee, with new clothes on your back and a smartphone in your hand, and expect to be given a house before actual citizens.

Actually, you kind of can. It's a big issue these days on the Israeli Right that this is being allowed.

That only happens in Western Europe.

Wrong.

Identities of Europe are allowed to be questioned, violated or denied, and Jewish fanatics are at the forefront in pushing all of this.

No, they aren't.

It's their way of repairing the world. They call it ''Tikkun Olam''.

No, they don't, since as I said before, ''they'' aren't on the forefront of this. The Muslim organizations are.

Jewish fanatics often say that there's no such thing as a Palestinian.

They're right, there isn't. The first settlers of the Holy Land to call themselves ''Palestinians'' were Jewish, back in the 1900's as I recall.

They're practically doing the same thing to the people of Europe.

Jewish fanatics want their identity to be the only one to thrive and prevail when it's all over.

Where did you read that? Any proof of that?

And the rest of us need to follow the Noahide laws, which basically means you become a willing slave of Zion. I advise people to keep an eye on these crazies.

The ''Noahide Laws'' were a philosophical construct of the Rabbis, saying that particular Jews were living within what they considered a righteous Gentile society if that society more or less did or did not do the following things;

Did not worship idols.
Did not curse God.
Did establish courts of justice for crimes.
Did not commit murder.
Did not commit adultery, bestiality, or fornication.
Did not steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Do you do any of those things? So again, what does any of this have to do with Turkey or Syria?

[noemon]

Al Assad regime isn't even being invited to the negotiations regarding its own country, it's safe to say that the Syrian state has effectively lost the country, and, as such, Turkey, Iran, Russia, etc all stand on equal grounds.
So that whole talk about being invited, it went out of the window when the Syrian government no longer had any say in any event in the country.

That Turkey refuses to talk to Assad does not mean that Assad is not part of it.

And for the financing part, no, I specifically specified multiple times over and over again in every post that the IRGC and its militias are the ones depending on Europe to pass their funding.

But you did not provide any true evidence for it.

I specified this several times, but you ignored it.

I did say: "I cannot speak of the validity of these claims, please provide evidence."

https://financialtribune.com/articles/domestic-economy/65339/iran-2nd-biggest-fdi-destination-in-mena

That was very brief when the sanctions were lifted and a boost was given, not applicable.

By peace and normality you mean for the remaining havens to be purged and for the massacre to continue I assume.

I mean for the victor to be recognised and a final settlement reached. That's the reality, why prolong the inevitable?

That number is clearly exaggerated.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... op_in_2018

It isn't, if you add all these numbers you reach the number of 6.7 million asylum applications processed since 2008. My estimate of putting the number of migrants to 24 million from a number of 6 million since 2011(rather than 2008) times 4 when in reality that number is times 10 is very conservative and underrated at the very base of the plausible. The number could be anything up to 35-40 million people. We had 1.5 million asylum seekers in the matter of months in a single year. 6 million asylum seekers since 2011 is indeed the correct number:

2008-2018: 256,155 297,175 284,985 341,795 373,550 464,505 662,165 1,393,875 1,291,785 735,005 669,025

Add them up and check it. Number of extra EU 28 asylum applicants[136]

At best, the number of all refugees from everywhere in the EU would be equivalent to that of Turkey or Iran alone.

The number scattered across Europe is much larger than the combination of all of the M-E countries. While you and Erdogan are over-reporting your numbers, Europe is under-reporting hers.

If the number of refugees reached 24 million then the EU would be screaming.

Both things already happened.

1- It's not obliged to me, this isn't about me.

You consider Europe obliged to do what Turkey says in Syria and to foot the bill for the situation in Syria and for the upkeep of migrants not just in Europe but also in Turkey & the M-E, that is what I mean, not you knocking on someone's door.

[Sivad]

This reminds me of Kaffa on the Black Sea when the retreating Mongol armies lobed corpses infected with the plague into this Genoese trading post in 1347, which subsequently spread the black death to most of Europe via the Italian merchant fleet.

jesus christ, dude, you need to take it down a couple of hundred notches.

[Istanbuller]

Turkey has spent over $40 B for Syrians since the war broke out. The EU should pay this bill if they want Turkey keep them here. Also we need additional $40 B for hosting them through this decade. If no, then let them pass Western Europe. Greece shouldn't be fool. Let them pass to other countries. They are not your problem. They are going to be Western Europe's problem.

[noemon]

A video released by the Greek government Saturday evening apparently shows a Turkish vehicle puling down, with the help of a rope, a section of the fence erected by Greece on its border with Turkey.

The video, shot Friday night, was accompanied by the following statement:

“Video depicting a Turkish armoured border surveillance vehicle which tries to pull down part of the border fence with a rope. This incident occurred last night. This is a HIZAR/ATES vehicle, which is equipped with instruments that allow it to monitor the border (day and night). Turkey obtained these vehicles from May to August 2019, with 75% of the programme financed by European funds. It has a powerful engine and climbing capabilities.”

Migrants amassed at the border constantly try to poke holes in the fence and Greek forces repel them and proceed to instantly repair the damaged section. This is the first time there is evidence of Turkey materially helping the migrants to pull down the fence.

[fokker]

If Turks fire tear gas grenades into Greek territory, Greeks should do the same to Turkish policemen who are suspected of committed these acts.

Greece should send army to the border, along with military vehicles, artillery and air defense. It can become another Cyprus border if Turks continue their provocations.

[anasawad]

@noemon

That Turkey refuses to talk to Assad does not mean that Assad is not part of it.

If he was, it would've atleast had an Arabic version.
Also, he hasn't been on the negotiating table for over 3 years since 2016.
It's mainly Iran, Turkey, and Russia negotiating on everything.

But you did not provide any true evidence for it.

It's the companies appearing on the recent sanctions lists from Lebanon and Iraq.
The most recent ones to go under Sanctions are Atlas Holdings, New Terminal, Global Wood, SafeNet, along with couple dozens of others around a week ago.

I'll prepare the full list tonight; Most operate either with Europe or Africa.

I mean for the victor to be recognised and a final settlement reached. That's the reality, why prolong the inevitable?

There never was any settlements. This isn't the first uprising to take place, the end is always genocide.
So yes, better prolong it as long as possible.

You consider Europe obliged to do what Turkey says in Syria and to foot the bill for the situation in Syria and for the upkeep of migrants not just in Europe but also in Turkey & the M-E,

I consider it obliged to help in the refugee matter because several EU countries did take part in the war.
It's either the EU holding the responsibility or forcing the specific members to do so.
This isn't limited to the EU alone.

Regarding the safe zone, it should be the UN establishing it to prevent a massacre, so everyone should do it.
This part isn't about responsibility, it's about preventing genocide and about solving the refugee crisis from its roots.





----------------------
Will add further parts tonight.

[noemon]

Austrian Chancellor says: "Europe will not kneel before Erdogan". Announces additional direct & bilateral security help for Greece outside the EU channels & Frontex.

[skinster]

Turkey has legal basis to intervene into Syria.

Citation needed.

Admin Edit: Off-topic Moved.

[Ter]

I am happy to see Europe no longer taking in the hundreds of thousands of migrants overrunning its borders. Finally.
I even don't see the assorted"NGOs" and Greens and leftists crying that Europe should take in more and more and more Pakistanis, Afghanis, Syrians and Bangladeshis. Usually by this time they would post a picture of crying children, or better still, a wounded or dead child in order to make the EU Authorities weak.
Bravo EU ! For once ! This praise coming from me is special and unusual

[noemon]

2 days of calm came to an end to today when Turkish police/military throwing tear-gas inside Greece led another assault on the Greek border while trying to set fire on the fence.