[ness31]

So. The admiral commanding the strike group would make that decision with the approval of the CNO and state department. No mere captain would ever do that. Further, this carrier is nuclear and would likely not require refueling. Resupply could be accomplished at sea. So there is no such discretion at sea.

So, if I remember correctly the admiral commander of the strike group would be Croziers immediate boss, the next in the chain of command? So Trump is taking issue with the wrong person for starters; and the ‘letter’ that he is so scornful of wasn’t “all over the place”, rather an objective assessment of how they could proceed.

Who knows if standard CDC guidelines and pandemic procedures even apply to an aircraft carrier in peacetime? I mean, are we even sure we’re in peacetime?

I can see why they’re saying he lost his nerve, but it’s super fucking harsh...

[Finfinder]

It is about time that everybody understand that Trump is ultimately responsible for whatever happens in his cabinet. Further. Trump wrote a letter to the Sec Navy complaining about this commander.

He already is. Polls show he is very unpopular with the military.

He has a 42% approval rating. For a republican that is awful. Over 45% said Very unfavorable.

Having been a professional soldier my view is probably different from yours. Behind my desk was a sign on the wall. "A commander is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in his command".

In wartime, in the face of the enemy a commander may order any or all of his men to their deaths. He may do this even if he disagrees with what he has been ordered to do. In peacetime a commander is responsible for the welfare of his people first and foremost. The very idea that he should be fired because what he did potentially embarrassed someone is absurd. He was the commander of a nuclear armed ship with a great many of his people in harms way. He did exactly what he should have done.

This is the least thing Trump should be embarrassed about. If he was smart he would have made a great opportunity to ride to the rescue of those sailors and win the approval of a great many military members. Instead he showed every member of the military that he considers them simply expendable. And for no good reason.

And the commander does have Corona Virus.

Drlee responded this to me on anther thread

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=177987&start=1520#p15082064

I don't believe the polls. The had Hillary by a landslide. Besides. There is an old saying: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in great numbers."

I have to admit Drlee I can't keep up with you. Is that rule a thread by thread rule or an in general rule,that you dont belive in polls? :

[Drlee]

I agree you can't keep up.

There are many more than one poll Finfinder.

[ingliz]

Defense secretary Mark Esper has accepted acting Navy secretary Thomas Modly’s resignation.

[Politics_Observer]

@blackjack21

Wrong again Blackjack! As usual! Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly after relieving Capt. Brett Crozier has now ended up having to resign and be relieved himself!

Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly resigned on Tuesday, a day after leaked audio revealed he called the ousted commander of the USS Theodore Roosevelt "stupid" in an address to the ship's crew, according to a US official and a former senior military official.

The Navy and Department of Defense did not respond to a request for comment. Undersecretary of the Army James McPherson has been tapped to succeed Modly, a US official and a defense official tells CNN. McPherson is a retired rear admiral and was the former judge advocate general of the Navy.

On Monday, Modly told the crew of the Roosevelt that their former commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, was either "too naive or too stupid" to be in command or that he intentionally leaked a memo to the media, in which Crozier warned about coronavirus spreading aboard the aircraft carrier and urged action to save his sailors, according to remarks obtained by CNN.

Late Monday night, Modly apologized in a statement for calling Crozier "stupid" in his earlier remarks.

Later Monday evening, after top members of the House Armed Services Committee began calling for his resignation, Modly apologized to the Navy for his comment.

The acting secretary's comments are coming to light at a time when multiple defense officials tell CNN that there is such growing dismay at the highest ranks of the uniformed Navy over how Crozier was relieved of duty that many senior officers feel they cannot candidly speak about their views.

Modly relieved Crozier of duty late last week, citing loss of confidence and failure to adhere to the chain of command. Officials at the Pentagon are split about whether Crozier should have been relieved, but most feel the situation was badly handled and is now causing additional problems at an already difficult time.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/politics ... index.html

[Politics_Observer]

@Drlee

Yeah, I when I was in Afghanistan, even though we were a Army National Guard Unit from the South, we in fact had everybody from all over the US serving in our unit during our tour in Afghanistan. We accepted volunteers from all over the country to deploy with us. So, we had people all over the US during that specific deployment. I was lucky to get a good team OIC who was a captain from Boston, Massachusetts. He was a real tough guy. He ran marathons all the time, he was in excellent shape, would challenge us to push up contests, could outrun or out do any of us on the physical fitness test and he always took care of his men and led from the front. So he had respect.

He also listened to some of our feedback too which was good because a few times he wanted to do some things that would have un-necessarily put us in danger. We talked to him and he listened to us and instead decided to take our approach which we still accomplished the mission that needed to be accomplished all while not losing lives un-necessarily. It's not that we were afraid to put our lives on the line, we just wanted to be sure our lives were not being put in danger un-necessarily when their was a better smarter approach to accomplishing the same mission that did not entail taking un-necessary risks.

So, I lucked out in getting a good team OIC who lead by example, was a tough guy, and listened to his people. We also had some incompetent NCOs too and our team OIC quickly replaced those incompetent NCOs with new NCOs who very tough and very good. He also did not tolerate low standards. Good leadership starts with setting high standards, setting the example by always meeting those high standards as the officer and leader and not tolerating low standards or enlisted men not meeting the high standards you set down for them. As a leader, your standards are only as good as the standards that you meet yourself and the standards that you tolerate from your enlisted men.

If you set high standards, meet those high standards yourself as the officer and don't tolerate enlisted men not meeting those high standards, then your unit is going to be a tough unit who meets high standards. Good leadership also means listening to the input of the experts, experience and your people. My team OIC had all those qualities. So, I was pretty lucky. Everything starts with the leadership. Not everybody was as lucky as I was and in some cases that costed them their lives. The cost of the mistake of leaders are placed into coffins. Everything and I mean everything starts with the officers and good leadership.

[blackjack21]

Is that a joke or are you one of those stupid Americans who only listens to Fox News?

Whatever, it made me laugh.

Three lines, and you had to make an edit?

VX nerve agent doesn't propagate across the world. Viruses do. Do you think that terror groups didn't notice that this killed far more than 9/11? George W. Bush responded to 9/11 by telling Americans to go out and go shopping. This crisis tells people not to go outside of the house without wearing a mask in a nation where the government just lied to the American people about the effectiveness of masks because by offshoring all the production, they got caught shorthanded because of their own monumental fuck ups--which is why we elected Donald Trump, who while to be credited is a bit too much of lily livered panty waist afraid of firing people. This sort of scenario is why W. "purportedly" invaded Iraq.

So you think biological warfare is something to laugh at. Really?

[ingliz]

Three lines, and you had to make an edit?

It would have been four lines and moderated for a Rule 2 violation.

biological warfare

[ness31]

Four US aircraft carriers are now reporting cases of the virus https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/0 ... itz-173210

And a French carrier sailed back to its home port also after reporting cases of CV19.

So who does that leave out there in the high seas? Pirates?

[Drlee]

Four US aircraft carriers are now reporting cases of the virus https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/0 ... itz-173210

And a French carrier sailed back to its home port also after reporting cases of CV19.

So who does that leave out there in the high seas? Pirates?

There are two kinds of ships. Submarines and targets.

[ness31]

lol, Christ, it’s a wonderland under there..

[Politics_Observer]

It would appear that the crew of the aircraft carrier are/were upset and "struggling" over the firing of their captain.

The top Navy admiral overseeing the virus-stricken aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt tells CNN in an exclusive interview that he found some sailors "struggling" and "upset" after their commanding officer was relieved of duty by the ousted acting navy secretary who was forced to resign over the matter.
The commander of the 7th Fleet, Vice Admiral Bill Merz, also told CNN that a better job could have been done communicating with crew members about the virus and how the Navy was handling it.

Merz, who is now in a precautionary 14-day isolation period after spending more than six hours on the Roosevelt earlier this week, offered the first direct view into the concerns of many crew members in a nearly 30-minute interview after visiting the ship in Guam.
He described a crew that felt significant anxiety over what they viewed as a lack of information they had been given to them about the virus.

"There was lots of anxiety about the virus," Merz said. "As you can imagine the morale covers the spectrum, considering what they have been through," he said.

Merz said that once he began to answer the crew's questions in detail, he saw anxiety ease and questions turn more toward issues such as getting back out to sea.

Many sailors told Merz they were still worried about the fate of their former commanding officer.

Hundreds of crew members had given Crozier a rousing sendoff in videos that went viral, clapping and shouting to show their respect and affection for him. Merz says sailors told him they worry Crozier might be punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, something that Modly had suggested before he resigned over the crisis.

"I got very specific questions about whether there would be UCMJ against their captain," Merz said, adding that he told them it is unlikely because Crozier was relieved over his judgment in widely distributing his views, rather than being relieved for a potential crime.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/10/politics ... index.html

Well I am glad to hear the aircraft carrier commander who was relieved will not likely be punished under the UCMJ. I am happy to hear that.

[quetzalcoatl]

It's now coming out that the "chain of command" cover story is totally bogus. Crozier was in direct communication with Scty Modly and other officials. He was pushing strongly to get 70% of the crew off the ship into isolation in Guam, once the cases began multiplying. The Navy was trying desperately to slow walk the response and do a wait and see. Trump was evidently not involved until the story became public.

[ness31]

That’s one very tight knit crew, I’ll give them that. Sounds like they don’t even need a CO.

[Finfinder]

I agree you can't keep up.

There are many more than one poll Finfinder.

Well I can keep up enough to remember on one thread your argument (Including your typical insult) is you don’t believe in polls yet on the same thread you use polls to make your argument thinking that nobody will remember. I realize that there are many polls I’m just trying to keep track of your rules which seem to only apply to when you have painted yourself in a corner. Drlee

[Drlee]

Well I can keep up enough to remember on one thread your argument (Including your typical insult) is you don’t believe in polls yet on the same thread you use polls to make your argument thinking that nobody will remember. I realize that there are many polls I’m just trying to keep track of your rules which seem to only apply to when you have painted yourself in a corner.

You just live in the shallow end of the pool. Turn off your video game and think. Could it be that I believe some polls and not others?

If you were grown up when it happened you might remember that Blackjack21 and I predicted Trumps election against the polls. This does not mean that polls are all wrong.

[Finfinder]

You just live in the shallow end of the pool. Turn off your video game and think. Could it be that I believe some polls and not others?

If you were grown up when it happened you might remember that Blackjack21 and I predicted Trumps election against the polls. This does not mean that polls are all wrong.

Pointing out in a respectful manner that one minute you insult a poster who uses a poll the next minute you use a poll to insult a poster to make your argument.

Folks playing at home this what deflection is and the tell tale sign is the personal attack and insult. Notice in the original attack the poster did not qualify their feeling on polls it was only after getting caught in the hypocrisy this was offered.

I predicted Trump would win also LOL.