Germany shuns plea for Turkey arms embargo - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15140000
Politico wrote:Greece blasts Berlin for shunning plea for Turkey arms embargo
Germany failing EU leadership test, Greek foreign minister says.

Nikos Dendias accused Germany of failing to live up to its leadership role in the EU

ATHENS — Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias accused Germany of failing to live up to its leadership role in the EU by rejecting pleas from Athens to impose an arms embargo on Turkey.

“I really fail to understand Germany’s reluctance to use the enormous power of its economy to set a clear example to countries that they must obey international law,” Dendias said in an interview with POLITICO.

Against a backdrop of heightened tensions in the Eastern Mediterranean, Greece has appealed to European partners in recent weeks to stop arms sales to Turkey. Athens argues such weapons are being used against two EU member countries, Greece and Cyprus, when there is an escalation of disputes over territorial waters.

Greece has specifically called on Germany not to allow the delivery of six Type 214 submarines ordered by Turkey. Athens argues the vessels would upset the balance of power in the Eastern Mediterranean.

“I understand the financial issue, but I am sure Germany also understands the huge contradiction of providing offensive weapons to a country that threatens the peace and stability of two EU countries. This is the definition of the word contradiction,” he said.

Dendias said he did not understand why Greece should even have to raise the matter with Berlin “instead of Germany realizing by itself, from the checks and balances of its own system, that this is not compatible with its role in Europe.”


Greece and Turkey are both members of the NATO alliance, but with long-standing disagreements on a variety of issues, including sea boundaries. Their relationship has reached a low point in recent months.

Over the summer, the countries came close to a military conflict, as the the Oruç Reis, a seismic vessel owned by Turkey’s General Directorate of Mineral Research and Exploration, started research activities in Greek waters. Turkish and Greek naval flotillas faced off against each other for weeks. Turkey has been conducting research and drilling off Cyprus in recent months as well.

Germany has tried to play the role of the mediator, with Foreign Minister Heiko Maas visiting Athens and Ankara several times to push for a restart of diplomatic talks. Chancellor Angela Merkel helped avert a potential conflict by calling both Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.

But Greece has voiced dissatisfaction with what Dendias has branded a policy of “appeasement” pursued by Germany toward Turkey. Athens argues Germany should be firmly on the side of its fellow EU members, Greece and Cyprus.

Summit call
In the interview, Dendias called on EU leaders to send a clear message to Turkey at next month’s European Council summit.

He said Europe should give a “logical answer” to Turkey’s recent actions that would match European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen’s pledge to lead a “geopolitical” Commission.

Shortly before the last EU summit, the Turkish vessel returned home, and both sides agreed to restart talks. At the summit on October 2, EU leaders warned Ankara it could face sanctions over its activities in the Eastern Mediterranean, but refrained from taking any action — only for the Turkish ship to resume its mission a few days later.

This time around, Turkey has again signaled the ship will return to port in advance of the summit, saying its mission will last until November 29. The summit is scheduled to begin on December 10.

Dendias suggested that if EU leaders followed the same course as last time, it would mean they had not learned their lesson.

“If you do the same things you did in the past and expect another outcome in the future, this is something described with the word ‘naive’ — and that’s a mild term for it, I would say,” Dendias said.

“Europe would send the wrong message to all the countries in the broader region. Whoever acts arbitrarily, whoever violates international law, whoever blackmails, is at the end of the day left unpunished or is even rewarded.”

Dendias declined to specify what the EU’s message should be. He said it should depend on whether Turkey shows a real change in attitude in the coming days and weeks.

Dendias said he is looking forward to working with the next U.S. administration. Both President-elect Joe Biden and his nominee for secretary of state, Antony Blinken, know the region and Greek-Turkish problems very well, he said.

“I believe that the region needs the presence of the United States and particularly its military presence, in a way that would offset the lack of European military presence in the region,” he said.


Even Trump stopped the rather significant F-35 sales to Turkey, while Germany wants to press ahead giving Turkey advanced tactical weapons that will most certainly be used against the EU.
#15140281
I don't get reasons behind your hostility toward Germany. They work hard to find a middle ground between Turkey and Greece. If we are going to have a deal which will not make anyone upset, we will owe it to chancellor Merkel. She is a great politician.

Germany doesn't want to break ties with Turkey. A new kind of relationship between Turkey and the EU is about to emerge. Erdoğan has been talking about EU reforms and European values for a few months now.
#15140283
The EU parliament has demanded sanctions for Turkey's illegal activity inside EU territory. France is also stating the obvious. The US & Canada have imposed an arms embargo on Turkey for its plentiful illegal activities on foreign soil.

As soon as Turkey seizes all its illegal activities on foreign soil and recognises the territorial boundaries of the EU, I'm sure the EU will welcome Turkey with open arms. The only thing stopping Turkey is Erdogan and extreme Turkish nationalism. I do not see how Turkey or Erdogan can be trusted when they are openly calling for the revision of the Peace Treaties from the world wars of yesteryear or how they are trying to make Europeans and especially Germans look like fools by playing chicken with their ships, removing them days before the summits and then putting them back at sea days after the summits while at the same time pointing their fingers at European leaders and going:"HAHA what a bunch of loon idiots" which is what Erdogan is actually calling European leaders.

Erdogan is not fooling anybody with his overtures. He is an Islamist extremist and Turkey is far more dangerous and aggressive than Iran, especially for Europe.

If Germany provides tactical weapons to Turkey like these submarines then the EU will definitely be broken apart as Turkey will certainly use these weapons against the EU.
#15140291
Erdogan twice tried to overwhelm EU borders with migrants with the support of Turkish police & army even at the height of the C-19 pandemic in an attempt to force Europe to fund his Kurdish ethnic-cleansing in Syria and twice he failed miserably.

dw wrote:euronews"]Erdogan warns 'millions' of refugees heading to Europe
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has criticized Turkey's actions at the Greek border, saying that it was "wholly unacceptable" for Recep Tayyip Erdogan to punish migrants because of his dissatisfaction with Europe.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's decision to bus thousands of migrants from refugee camps to Turkey's border with Greece was the wrong approach, even if Ankara "currently does not feel sufficiently supported" by Europe.

"But despite all the willingness to negotiate on providing yet more support [for Turkey], it is wholly unacceptable to then take this out on refugees," Merkel said of Erdogan's decision. She said he was leading desperate people into a "cul-de-sac," with Greece already making it clear it does not intend to grant them entry.

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas added: "We must not allow refugees to be made the plaything of geopolitical interests. No matter who tries to do so, they must always expect our resistance."

Their comments followed soon after Erdogan had threatened to increase the rate of new arrivals at Turkey's border with Greece.

"Hundreds of thousands have crossed, soon we will reach millions," Erdogan said in a televised speech. The United Nations' migration organization estimates the number to be much lower, at around 13,000 people.

Erdogan called on Europe to help take responsibility.

"After we opened the doors, there were multiple calls saying 'close the doors,'" he said. "I told them 'it's done. It's finished. The doors are now open. Now, you [Europe] will have to take your share of the burden."

Turkey declared its border to Greece open for the millions of displaced people currently in the country in a bid to pressure the EU into supporting Turkey's role in the conflict in Syria.

The build up of migrants along the Greece-Turkey border has caused fears of a repeat of the 2015 European migrant crisis, in which more than 1 million people crossed into Europe.

There has been nearly 10,000 attempts to cross Greece's northeastern land border in the past 24 hours.

A further 1,000 migrants arrived on the shores of its Eastern Aegean Islands including Lesbos and Samos since Sunday night.

The country has declared its highest alert level in response to the crisis and Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis promised to step up land and sea patrols in the country's northeast.

An internal document from the European Union border enforcement agency Frontex showed that it is predicting a "massive flow" of people that will be difficult to stop, reported German daily Die Welt.

What's the situation like on the ground?

DW's Florian Schmitz reported hearing gun fire as he tried to drive up to the over-capacity Moria camp on the Greek island of Lesbos. The camp is one of several migrant camps holding migrants who have crossed the Aegean Sea from Turkey.


Julia Hahn, DW's Turkey correspondent, said she saw tear gas and water cannon being used by Greek border guards against migrants. She also cited "disturbing" reports from some migrants of so-called illegal pushbacks — where migrants are forced back across a land or sea border having crossed it.

"If confirmed, these illegal pushbacks at an EU border would be a violation of human rights and of refugee law," said Hahn.

What is the EU doing about the crisis?

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, European Council President Charles Michel and European Parliament President David Sassoli will travel to the Greek border. Frontex said it is aiming to help Greece as quickly as possible.

The EU Foreign Affairs Council has scheduled an "extraordinary" meeting this week at the request of the Greece.
#15140301
Istanbuller wrote:Erdoğan works for Europe. He built a border wall all along Syria and Iraq border. He reduced number of refugee arrivals by 80%. Turkish society overwhelmingly oppose immigration and refugee influx.


This is clearly not the case. EU can't have a friendly relationship with Turkey anymore under Erdogan. At best, we can be neutral. Erdogan has proven time and time again that he has no interest in mind besides his own and his goal of staying in power. Be it the attempts to extort Europe with immigrants or use of military force in one way or the other they all lead to one conclusion.

So Noemon asking to punish Turkey is not out of line. It is something that should have been done by both US and EU for the deeds that Erdogan did. Both EU and US were busy with other things. Now the situation is changing. It will be much harder for Erdogan to act like that because Trump is gone and European patience seems to have run out to a large degree. The ones that "protect" Erdogan are mostly the Germans as Noemon said. And it is obvious why they are doing it: for the money.
#15140468
JohnRawls wrote:So Noemon asking to punish Turkey is not out of line. It is something that should have been done by both US and EU for the deeds that Erdogan did. Both EU and US were busy with other things. Now the situation is changing. It will be much harder for Erdogan to act like that because Trump is gone and European patience seems to have run out to a large degree. The ones that "protect" Erdogan are mostly the Germans as Noemon said. And it is obvious why they are doing it: for the money.


[Tin foil hat]
Is this arms deal simply Germany's Turn to profit while the rest of the EU makes a fuss for the sake of credibility / EU-cover?
France's previous turn was spent intervening in North Africa a couple years back. Thus, the EU doesnt actually have hard moral positions they defend, just claims and posturing as 1 member here and there break consensus to make a buck.
[/Tin foil hat]

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