China vaccinates people up to 59 y.o. criticises west for vaccinating the elderly - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15150018
Chinese health experts called on Norway and other countries to suspend the use of mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines produced by companies such as Pfizer, especially among elderly people, due to the vaccines' safety uncertainties following the deaths of 23 elderly Norwegian people who received the vaccine.

The new mRNA vaccine was developed in haste and had never been used on a large scale for the prevention of infectious disease, and its safety had not been confirmed for large-scale use in humans, a Chinese immunologist said.

The death incidents in Norway also proved that the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines' efficacy was not as good as expected, experts said.

As of Thursday, Norway has reported 23 deaths in connection with vaccination.

"So far, 13 of these have been assessed. Common side effects may have contributed to a severe course in frail elderly people," the Norwegian Medicines Agency said on its website.

All the deaths have occurred in frail, elderly patients in nursing homes. All are over 80 years old and some of them over 90, Norwegian media NRK reported.

Two COVID-19 vaccines, Comirnaty, from BioNTec/Pfizer, and Moderna, are used in Norway. The vaccines have been developed on mRNA technology and have received temporary approval in the EU, according to the agency.

Norway launched a mass vaccination campaign at the end of December, with the very oldest citizens and residents of nursing homes being offered vaccination first, including those over the age of 85.

The Norwegian Medicines Agency admitted that the studies that form the basis for the temporary approval of the vaccine included very few people over the age of 85, and there is little known about how any side effects will affect these age brackets, but it said, "we assume that the side effects will largely be the same in the elderly as in those over 65 years of age."

Chinese experts said the death incident should be assessed cautiously to understand whether the death was caused by vaccines or other preexisting conditions of these individuals.

Yang Zhanqiu, a virologist from Wuhan University, told the Global Times on Friday that the death incident, if proven to be caused by the vaccines, showed that the effect of the Pfizer vaccine and other mRNA vaccines is not as good as expected, as the main purpose of mRNA vaccines is to heal patients.

The mRNA vaccines teach human cells to make a protein to trigger an immune response; then, the immune response can protect people from getting infected if the real virus enters the body.

Meanwhile, toxic substances may be developed throughout the process of mRNA vaccinations; thus, the safety of vaccines cannot be fully ensured, Yang said.

But that's not the case for inactivated vaccines in China, which have more mature technology, Yang said.

A Beijing-based immunologist, who requested anonymity, told the Global Times on Friday that the world should suspend the use of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccine represented by Pfizer, as this new technology has not proven safety in large-scale use or in preventing any infectious diseases.

Older people, especially those over 80, should not be recommended to receive any COVID-19 vaccine, he said.

He said that people over 80 years old have a weaker immune system and are more prone to adverse effect; thus, they should be recommended to take medicines to improve their immune system, he said.

China has started vaccination for people aged between 18 and 59, as statistics on people aged 60 years and over and people aged 18 years and below were relatively small during clinical trials of the vaccines. Thus, we cannot fully identify the efficacy and side effects for these two groups, a Beijing-based health expert who requested to be anonymous, told the Global Times.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212915.shtml

"..perhaps even more monumental is the kind of vaccine that Pfizer-BioNTech are bringing across the finish line. The active ingredient inside their shot is mRNA—mobile strings of genetic code that contain the blueprints for proteins. Cells use mRNA to get those specs out of hard DNA storage and into their protein-making factories. The mRNA inside Pfizer-BioNTech’s vaccine directs any cells it reaches to run a coronavirus spike-building program. The viral proteins these cells produce can’t infect any other cells, but they are foreign enough to trip the body’s defense systems. They also look enough like the real virus to train the immune system to recognize SARS-CoV-2, should its owner encounter the infectious virus in the future."

"Up until now, this technology has never been approved for use in people. "

https://www.wired.com/story/why-its-a-b ... s-genetic/

Will you be a guinea pig of protein synthesizing experimental RNA medicine brought to market in record time with minimal testing? Hmmm?
Last edited by noemon on 17 Jan 2021 23:49, edited 1 time in total.
#15150261
Patrickov wrote:ball licking


Most people are ball lickers, they live to lick sweaty establishment balls. If they didn't have official balls to lick they would all have nervous breakdowns because they just couldn't handle reality. They desperately need some kind of officialdom telling them what to think and what to be scared of and what meaningless little observances to follow so they can feel safe. Most people are pathetic little idiots desperate to be led, desperate to fit in, desperate to conform. That's why psychopaths rule the world.
#15150316
Sivad wrote:Most people are ball lickers, they live to lick sweaty establishment balls. If they didn't have official balls to lick they would all have nervous breakdowns because they just couldn't handle reality. They desperately need some kind of officialdom telling them what to think and what to be scared of and what meaningless little observances to follow so they can feel safe. Most people are pathetic little idiots desperate to be led, desperate to fit in, desperate to conform. That's why psychopaths rule the world.

Exactly.

A big part of the "licking" takes the form of trusting giant multinational corporations to "do the right thing and help people." And this means that "lickers" regurgitate all their corporate bullshit, and reject any kind of critical thought. This is what dogs do because they live as slaves in a world of confinement and treats.

Another part of the "licking" takes the form of growling at strangers, like a dog would. So if China says that the vaccine might be toxic, the loyal dog will bark at China and get injected.

We are on the verge of industrial climate apocalypse, are involved in several wars for profit, have seen human kinship deteriorate with each new profitable tech... and yet people are still swearing their loyalty to these corporate monsters, and even trying to force people to let them inject something experimental into their paws.
#15150329
QatzelOk wrote:Another part of the "licking" takes the form of growling at strangers, like a dog would. So if China says that the vaccine might be toxic, the loyal dog will bark at China and get injected.


Are you not a dog licking Chinese corporations and barking preemptively at those who may tell you something true?

China is saying that the German vaccine is unreliable, untested and rushed. Perhaps it is, perhaps after Brazil reported the Chinese vaccine as worthless, China is now engaging in its own global PR campaign. What kind of "critical thought" has China provided for her assertion?

The German vaccine certainly isn't as rushed and as untested as China's vaccines that were rolled out months before the German one by totally skipping Phase 3 clinical trials.
#15150331
noemon wrote:Are you not a dog licking Chinese corporations and barking preemptively at those who may tell you something true?

Not at all.

None of the vaccines have been tested enough to make any claims to be safe or effective.

Marketing and PR is not the same thing as "safe to put in your bloodstream during a crisis of capitalism."
#15150334
QatzelOk wrote:Not at all.


How come? You are currently barking at people and also licking the Chinese claims at the same time.

None of the vaccines have been tested enough to make any claims to be safe or effective.


The German vaccine was rolled out after it passed Phase 3 Clinical trials. The Chinese one was rolled out before it passed Phase 3 Clinical trials.

More than 10 million people have now received the German vaccine. 5 million Americans, 2 million Brits, 3 million Israelis and another 2-3 million elsewhere.
#15150337
noemon wrote:The German vaccine was rolled out after it passed Phase 3 Clinical trials. The Chinese one was rolled out before it passed Phase 3 Clinical trials.

More than 10 million people have now received the German vaccine. 5 million Americans, 2 million Brits, 3 million Israelis and another 2-3 million elsewhere.

Measles was eradicated by a vaccine after a few centuries of research. Covid hasn't even been isolated yet, and so the best you can hope for with the vaccine lottery is that it doesn't kill you or give you long-term conditions that require more chemicals from Big Pharma.

I never defended a Chinese vaccine, but if insulting China leads you to get vaccinated by something that the USA threw together or Germany came up with... go ahead, even if I think it's illogical to get vaccinated just because you hate China.

Cutting off your immunity system to spite your Sinophobia.

(Interesting sidenote: vaccines finally eradicated measles in the late 20th Century. But even at its peak, measles would infect virtually everyone by the age of 15, with 4 or 5 million infections each year, causing only 400 to 500 deaths per year. Did the vaccine for it kill more or fewer people? This seems like a very minor condition to vaccinate for)
Last edited by QatzelOk on 17 Jan 2021 04:25, edited 1 time in total.
#15150343
QatzelOk wrote:Measles was eradicated by a vaccine after a few centuries of research. Covid hasn't even been isolated yet, and so the best you can hope for with the vaccine lottery is that it doesn't kill you or give you long-term conditions that require more chemicals from Big Pharma.

I never defended a Chinese vaccine, but if insulting China leads you to get vaccinated by something that the USA threw together or Germany came up with... go ahead, even if I think it's illogical to get vaccinated just because you hate China.

Cutting off your immunity system to spite your Sinophobia.


I have not stated anything about my intention to be vaccinated or which one I personally prefer. I have also not insulted China in any way, shape or form. I have only told you that China released a vaccine before it passed Phase 3 clinical trials. That is not an insult but the truth.

I am also not the one barking at people here, you are. How does it feel being a Chinese dog?
#15150364
QatzelOk wrote:
We are on the verge of industrial climate apocalypse



Yeah, you're not gonna get what you're looking for out of that bullshit. If you are genuinely interested in global justice then you should really come off the climate apocalypse stuff because the globalist olicharchy invented it, they own it, it's their con. You're never gonna take it away from them and it's never gonna serve your agenda. You can't beat them at bullshit, they are the masters of bullshit, if you step into their arena and play their game you're definitely going to lose.
#15150438
Sivad wrote:Yeah, you're not gonna get what you're looking for out of that bullshit. If you are genuinely interested in global justice then you should really come off the climate apocalypse stuff because the globalist olicharchy invented it, they own it, it's their con. You're never gonna take it away from them and it's never gonna serve your agenda. You can't beat them at bullshit, they are the masters of bullshit, if you step into their arena and play their game you're definitely going to lose.

I have my own eyes to examine the horrendous pollution of the industrial age. The town I am originally from has a giant lake of poison PCBs buried under a park next to what-used-to-be its downtown. And I grew up knowing that my lifespan was ten years less than other North Americans because of all the cancers. We also ate lobster that was fished in poison waters in the harbor - because less expensive.

I often have to reduce my cycling time because of smog.

Chinese cities are choking to death, and their land is being sacrificed to economic abstractions.

This isn't Globalist shit. Globalists gave us all the pollution in the first place. And now, they have a vaccine for everyone, just as their shitty world is collapsing.
#15150486
noemon wrote:


The German vaccine was rolled out after it passed Phase 3 Clinical trials. The Chinese one was rolled out before it passed Phase 3 Clinical trials.



It didn't pass phase 3 trials, phase 3 doesnt end until 2023. None of these vaccines have standard approval, they're all beiing rolled out under emergency authorization.
#15150494
#15150508
Although the study was designed to follow participants for safety and efficacy for 2 years after the second dose, given the high vaccine efficacy, ethical and practical barriers prevent following placebo recipients for 2 years without offering active immunization, once the vaccine is approved by regulators and recommended by public health authorities. Assessment of long-term safety and efficacy for this vaccine will occur, but it cannot be in the context of maintaining a placebo group for the planned follow-up period of 2 years after the second dose.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577
#15150511
Sivad wrote:
Yeah, you're not gonna get what you're looking for out of that bullshit. If you are genuinely interested in global justice then you should really come off the climate apocalypse stuff because the globalist olicharchy invented it, they own it, it's their con. You're never gonna take it away from them and it's never gonna serve your agenda. You can't beat them at bullshit, they are the masters of bullshit, if you step into their arena and play their game you're definitely going to lose.



Let's set his comments to the side for a moment.

I prefer not to use words that are not concretely definable, like globalist oligarchy.

But, Koch is relevant here. They have mounted a big bucks propaganda campaign against climate change for roughly the last 30 years. And it worked, it got you saying that stuff.

I have followed the science since the early 80s. It's good. The warming was actually discovered in the 70s, and has never faced a serious scientific challenge. Now, if you follow the science, it is accelerating quickly.

While the Kochs have hired the best social scientists to brainwash people in a dozen different ways (according to their personality), the basics never change. It's a problem that needs work, and the people actually willing to do the work are the Progressives.
#15150531
@Igor Antunov
Will you be a guinea pig of protein synthesizing experimental RNA medicine brought to market in record time with minimal testing? Hmmm?


I already am. I was vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine over a week ago. I am more than glad.

I can see we have yet another home for antivaxers in this thread. Oh so interested in the procedure and completely uninterested in the fact that the virus has killed over 2 million people worldwide and 400K in the US. And please spare us the absurd counting error defense. It just does not hold water.

So why did I do it?

I could stay home. I need not go to the clinic. I need not go out for food. Delivery is easily arranged here. I am under 70 for the moment and my co-morbidity set is small though not nonexistent.

Well. If everyone with my demographic stayed home there would be very few Pulmonologists available to keep the rest of you careless folks alive. The overwhelming majority of pulmonologists are over 60. (I am not a pulmonologist but I am using it as an example.) I go to the clinic so that people just like you folks still have access to health care. If everyone over 60 chose to stay home rather than take the vaccine, you geniuses would be in a real bind. In fact the whole society would be.

So I took the vaccine so I can stay at work with people who are covid + or suspected of being. What about the chance of side effects years down the road? How many years? Without a vaccine, in the US I am almost certain to get this bug sometime and suffer severe illness and/or long lasting ill effects from it.

Let me tell you about Bran---. He is a 34 year old Covid patient without a single co-morbidity other than cigarette smoking. He spent two weeks on ECMO. Got weaned (which is a miracle in itself) made it to a step down unit and suffered kidney failure. His kidneys are destroyed, he is on dialysis, and if we can get him well enough someday, he will need a kidney transplant. At least. Betcha' he would have preferred the vaccine and the chance he might suffer uncontrolled penis enlargement in a couple of years.

The nonsense about China's "call" is just that. The title of the thread is misleading. This is from the link:

ll the deaths have occurred in frail, elderly patients in nursing homes. All are over 80 years old and some of them over 90, Norwegian media NRK reported.


'nuff said. Ask Sivad what he thinks about this. Remind him that I know where to find what he posted before.

China is only vaccinating people up to age 59 according to this article. Early results show that the Sinovac is only about 55% effective. (The UAE reports 80% but this has not been confirmed yet.)

So y'all do what you want. I will be early for my second dose.
#15150537
One of my colleagues volunteers as a Fireman. He is willing to get vaccinated. He said that he sees the situation as, "If you are in the middle of the road and you see a car coming, will you stand there and let it hit you or will you run? I'm going to run and get the hell out of the road." I think he is a smart man. If you can take a preventive measure, why not take it?

Yes, we are guinea pigs. But I need to work. I open the door for visitors and contractors at work. People come up to me to ask HR/Accounting questions. I work around people. And I am also a part-time university student. Hiding at home to avoid people is not an option for me. I need protection against the virus.
#15150540
noemon wrote:The German vaccine was rolled out after it passed Phase 3 Clinical trials. The Chinese one was rolled out before it passed Phase 3 Clinical trials.


Largely because of not enough covid-19 on the Chinese mainland to conduct those trials, requiring that it be exported to countries in need to do so. These countries agreed to receive the vaccine early in exchange for sharing data with China to allow Phase 3 trials to complete.

In any case, I get my first shot of Sinovac this Friday. :)
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