[Igor Antunov]

No dressing up of headline can change the dangers of experimental RNA vaccines. Covid does not justify such an experimental drug. I will be getting a jab in about a year after everybody else has tested the trad non rna variant for me. What Fasces said.

l the deaths have occurred in frail, elderly patients in nursing homes. All are over 80 years old and some of them over 90, Norwegian media NRK reported.

So like 99% of Covid deaths? How effective is this drug really?

Why are people getting jabbed by experiential drugs for a virus that kills the same number of young people as the common cold? That kills fewer young people than bee stings?

[noemon]

The only excuse I can think for the both of you is that you are working inside China's social credit system like hamsters on a treadmill.

Largely because of not enough covid-19 on the Chinese mainland to conduct those trials, requiring that it be exported to countries in need to do so. These countries agreed to receive the vaccine early in exchange for sharing data with China to allow Phase 3 trials to complete.

She could have started vaccinating her own people after conducting Phase 3 trials on foreigners. She didn't.

[Igor Antunov]

I just gave you my reasoning, mRNA vaccines are untried and untested long term. That's enough justification not to take them for a virus that's only more dangerous than the flu in the very old demographic. And there's a reason you don't inoculate the very elderly with new vaccines. Vaccines induce strain on the immune system, tested or not. China is being doubly cautious. 59 is a good cutoff range now. For mRNA vacs I'd make the age cutoff range 0.

[noemon]

I just gave you my reasoning, mRNA vaccines are untried and untested long term. That's enough justification not to take them for a virus that's only more dangerous than the flu in the very old demographic.

China says that her own vaccine is unsafe for people over 59, according to your own OP.

[Igor Antunov]

China says that her own vaccine is unsafe for people over 59 as per your own OP.

And the Europeans say their own vaccine is potentially killing old people. So, China is being responsible.

[noemon]

And the Europeans say their own vaccine is potentially killing old people. So, China is being responsible.

Responsible enough to vaccinate her population without conducting Phase 3 trials you mean.

[Fasces]

The only explanation I can think of is that you're both on the social credit treadmill.

What an arrogant point of view to take - the only reason someone might disagree with my obviously perfect and well reasoned world view (despite the demonstrated past gaps in understanding of fundamental principles of social science) is if you're getting paid to oppose me.

This arrogance is precisely why the Western system is doomed in the short term and won't recover until the post-colonial hangover is complete and a century of humiliation has humbled attitudes.

She could have started vaccinating her own people after conducting Phase 3 trials on foreigners. She didn't.

Who is 'she'? China? China felt the results were likely to be safe, and because it is such a simple design, China is probably correct. It isn't an experimental viral load technique - exposure to dead virus cells has been standard protocol since we rubbed babies on cows to innoculate small pox.

In any case - no available vaccine has completed phase 3 trials as of yet. Not the UK. Not the German. Not the Russian. Not the American.

[noemon]

China is a "she", all countries in my vocabulary are she's as per my Hellenic mental programming.

It took Drlee and myself a couple of posts just to totally dismantle your propaganda and now you cry for being a victim.

I'm sorry I know you 're smarter than that.

[Fasces]

I have nothing against any vaccine - but none have passed stage 3 trials according to pre covid standards.

I'm sure all are reasonably similar in performance and efficacy, and everyone should get whatever vaccine is available as quickly as possible. The Sinovac vaccine is cheaper to produce and distribute even if it's less effective, according to one study, against mild and moderate cases (though equally effective against severe cases). If you have to choose between Sinovac and nothing, like billions around the world, please get Sinovac. If you have to choose between an experimental Western vaccine that is more expensive and Sinovac, then choose whichever you feel more comfortable with - obviously.

[noemon]

I have nothing against any vaccine - but none have passed stage 3 trials according to pre covid standards.

Chinese vaccines have been rolled out before passing Phase 3 clinical trials.

Western vaccines have been rolled out after passing Phase 3 clinical trials.

[Igor Antunov]

China is a "she", all countries in my vocabulary are she's as per my Hellenic mental programming.

It took Drlee and myself a couple of posts just to totally dismantle your propaganda and now you cry for being a victim.

I'm sorry I know you 're smarter than that.

It took you modifying the accompanying article headline from the original to mould a custom narrative. Not cool my Greek friend. Tabula Rasa - remember, all facts come from without, not from within. Ideology and moralism do not a perfect vaccine make.

[Fasces]

Chinese vaccines have been rolled out before passing Phase 3 clinical trials.

Western vaccines have been rolled out after passing Phase 3 clinical trials.

Western vaccines have been rolled out after passing 'post-Covid, emergency' Phase 3 standards. Standards were relaxed in order to facilitate the emergency rollout of the vaccine. Western vaccines have not passed normal Phase 3 standards.

The same is true of the Chinese vaccine.

[noemon]

Western vaccines have been rolled out after passing 'post-Covid, emergency' Phase 3 standards. Standards were relaxed in order to facilitate the emergency rollout of the vaccine. Western vaccines have not passed normal Phase 3 standards.

The same is true of the Chinese vaccine.

Not really, because Chinese vaccines had not even passed the 'post-Covid emergency' Phase 3 standards before they were rolled out.

[JohnRawls]

Not really, because Chinese vaccines had not even passed the 'post-Covid emergency' Phase 3 standards before they were rolled out.

Also they kinda lied about the effectiveness of the vaccine. During the rollout the number was 90% or something like that in the reports that Chinese media and affiliates provided. Now we find out it is 50%.

[Fasces]

Chinese vaccines had not even passed the 'post-Covid emergency' Phase 3 standards before they were rolled out.

What do you mean by rolled out?

Also they kinda lied about the effectiveness of the vaccine. During the rollout the number was 90% or something like that in the reports that Chinese media and affiliates provided. Now we find out it is 50%.

Chinese studies showed 90%. A Brazilian study showed 50%. A UAE study shows 80%. A Turkish study shows 91%. None of this is contradictory - science is created by an aggregate of results. We'll likely know the true number in a few years - same with Western vaccines.

[noemon]

What do you mean by rolled out?

Used for inoculation on the general public outside the scope of clinical trials.

[Fasces]

Used for inoculation on the general public outside the scope of clinical trials.

In that case, it was approved for use by the general public following the temporary loosening of Phase 3 standards, same as Western vaccines.

[noemon]

In that case, it was approved for use by the general public following the temporary loosening of Phase 3 standards, same as Western vaccines.

But that is false as the Chinese vaccines were used for inoculating the general public before any results from Phase 3 clinical trials(even the loose post-Covid version of them).

Western vaccines were rolled out after Phase 3 clinical trials(the loose post-Covid version of them).

[Fasces]

But that is false as the Chinese vaccine was used for inoculating the general public before any results from Phase 3 clinical trials(even the loose version of them used for western vaccines).

No, it wasn't? It wasn't available to the general public for sign-up before early January, after the conclusion of the Chinese, Brazilian and Turkish trials.

Before then you could volunteer to participate in a trial, but be rejected if you didn't meet certain demographic requirements to make the study valid. Since mid-January, anyone can sign up, pay ( ) and receive the vaccine.

[noemon]

No, it wasn't? It wasn't available to the general public for sign-up before early January, after the conclusion of the Chinese, Brazilian and Turkish trials.

There are reports Chinese vaccines are being used on the general public since September.