[Tainari88]

Navalny as we saw during the course of this thread is to the left of Putin in nationalism, racism and everything else that matters as well.

Compared to Putin he is definitely a Leftist. And certainly the kind of leftist that Russia is able to produce under the current totalitarian dictatorship.

Who is to the Right of Putin? More Right than Putin would be hard to find. Trump had a bromance with Putin. Is Trump to the Left of Putin?

Mafioso state is run by Putin. How is AOC a Putin challenger? She has nothing to do with Putin. She needs to watch her six with Trump supporters and Fox news nuts like Marjorie Taylor-Green who might shoot her for being a Demon who is out to get America.

Right-wing crazies are not isolated to the Russian federation.

[Heisenberg]

Why do you think they call themselves Bolsheviks you silly person

For similar reasons that the Nazis called themselves "socialists". Do you view them as far-left as well? It wouldn't surprise me.

The NazBol program calls for a pan-Eurasian empire from Vladivostok to Gibraltar based on the ideals of "spiritual courage" and "traditional hierarchy". Aleksandr Dugin is a key figure.

Revolutionary Marxists, these people are not.

[noemon]

Who is to the Right of Putin? More Right than Putin would be hard to find. Trump had a bromance with Putin.

Indeed.

Is Trump to the Left of Putin?

I believe he is.

Mafioso state is run by Putin.

Right-wing crazies are not isolated to the Russian federation.

This mafia state has imprisoned all the opposition figures. This guy Navalny has suffered quite a bit the past year for basically uncovering corruption. He was making youtube videos shaming corrupt Russian oligarchs.

He was then poisoned, recovered, imprisoned and now his health has deteriorated to the point he is apparently almost half-dead in prison with Russian doctors saying he will probably be paralysed.

The least people can do if they are not going to support him(for personal political reasons) is to at least let him be instead of calling him a "Nazi" just because it is convenient to their very obvious pro-Putin anti-westernism.

[Rugoz]

For similar reasons that the Nazis called themselves "socialists". Do you view them as far-left as well? It wouldn't surprise me.

The NSDAP called itself socialist because plenty of socialists were part of it, before they were purged.

I certainly subscribe to the idea that the far-left and the far-right have been very close to each other historically. National Bolshevism seems like a good description of what the SU turned out to be.

[Beren]

The NSDAP called itself socialist because plenty of socialists were part of it, before they were purged.

If that had been the case they should have stopped calling themselves Socialists after the purge. Wasn't it rather because Hitler found it politically useful?

[JohnRawls]

JohnRawls, a right wing liberal: the NazBols are far left
Me, a socialist: the NazBols are fascists
Rugoz: lol leftists so dumb u dunno who's who

A very intelligent contribution, as usual.

National Bolsheviks are fascist? What is your definition of fascist?

[Rugoz]

If that had been the case they should have stopped calling themselves Socialists after the purge. Wasn't it rather because Hitler found it politically useful?

"If that had been the case"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C ... revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

Hitler was more "pragmatic" than Röhm, that doesn't make him less of a socialist than Bernie (who's obviously not a socialist either).

[JohnRawls]

AOC? You mean the Puerto Rican one from the Bronx? She identified herself as a Democratic Socialist the same as Bernie Sanders. She never said a damn thing against immigrant people and in fact advocates for abolishing ICE from her district 14 NYC neighborhood. She is pro independence for Puerto Rico, and she raised her own money for her campaign through grassroots and pounding the pavement. She won against a liberal sellout Democrat asshole like Crowley, she takes on banking interests and Zuckerberg, she is hounded by Fox and so on reporting, she believes in the New Green Deal, and wants to tax billionaires and millionaires and Wall Street, and she got verbally assaulted by that Yahoo Yoho....etc etc. She is young and being the decent Economics major that she is? Made up her mind for socialism early. Like I did. She is unlikely to be found screaming about nationalist bullshit videos from far in her short life past.

She was the target of those racist pro Trump violent freaks and thought about taking her high heels and making a run for it to survive that attack in Katie Porter's office.

No, she has nothing in common with Alexey a liberal guy (who says he is a liberal), yet Heisenberg sees some contradiction there. I feel sorry for his physical torture and his isolation and the Russian state poisoning him. But he is not AOC John Rawls.

My Puerto Rican socialist women have zero in common with an Alexey dude with issues in the Russian Federation.

Navalny is fully funded by the people and he basically campaigns in a very similar way as AOC. Fully funded by the people while being fully cut off from official TV channels since they are all oligarch or state owned. He exposed oligarch corruption every year. He is also for independance of regions like Chechnya and Dagestan if they don't want to be part of Russia.

So the comparison is very similar. Some of the oppositions leaders from Russia were campaigning for AOC and Bernie Sanders by the way. 2016 and 2020 elections for Bernie in Nevada were headed by a Russian guy who is pretty chill with another opposition figure called Maxim Kats. The reason is simple for that is because Bernie Sanders and AOC methods of campaigning are very similar to Russian opposition way of campaigning. (Actually i am not sure about 2020 but i am 100% sure about 2016 one. A Russian campaigning guy was basically the head of Bernies campaign in Nevada when he was running against HIllary)

[Tainari88]

Navalny is fully funded by the people and he basically campaigns in a very similar way as AOC. Fully funded by the people while being fully cut off from official TV channels since they are all oligarch or state owned. He exposed oligarch corruption every year. He is also for independance of regions like Chechnya and Dagestan if they don't want to be part of Russia.

So the comparison is very similar. Some of the oppositions leaders from Russia were campaigning for AOC and Bernie Sanders by the way. 2016 and 2020 elections for Bernie in Nevada were headed by a Russian guy who is pretty chill with another opposition figure called Maxim Kats. The reason is simple for that is because Bernie Sanders and AOC methods of campaigning are very similar to Russian opposition way of campaigning. (Actually i am not sure about 2020 but i am 100% sure about 2016 one. A Russian campaigning guy was basically the head of Bernies campaign in Nevada when he was running against HIllary)

I really think consistency is key to trusting political positions John Rawls.

People have to talk the talk and they have to walk the walk. Otherwise, I am unconvinced.

I voted in 2020 for Gloria LaRiva. A woman who I agree on her positions at least 80-90% of the time. On many issues. She is consistent all the way. She mainly gets interviewed via differing Latin American governments. Telesur interview of Gloria LaRiva. She is very easily consistent throughout her entire political career. It all fits and there is not some murky past where she is associated with violence and promoting anything where immigrants are compared to tooth decay.

I really pay attention to details with politicians. They give a away a lot. Gloria has a strong accent on her Spanish like an English speaking person does. But she speaks with eloquence and zero grammatical errors. She put in some sweat equity. Work. She has very good values. So I vote for her. She won't win. The important thing is she keeps trying and like AOC she works hard and goes out there and sweats.

[B0ycey]

As long as we all acknowledge that Navalny is a rightwing nationalistic politician whose historically known comments wouldn't have been out if place in the BNP, especially in regards to immigration, I don't see why or whether he is on the right of Putin really matters actually.

Navalny is a rightwinger fullstop. He is only championed by the West because is was an outspoken politician of Putin that was hoped he could be puppeteered for our interests in Russia. He isn't even desirable considering he doesn't hold Western values but we don't have anyone else so we have to pretend he is morally better than he actually is. It is kind of like debating who is more evil Hitler or Mussolini, you probably will say Hitler but it isn't like Mussolini was an angel by saying that. Germany wouldn't have patched him up and sent him back if they knew Russia was going to send him to prison on a trump charge. The Western media even tried to bring Navalny protests into prominence but they never went anywhere and now you don't hear anything about them because they were never at the scale we hoped they were to begin with. My opinion on Navalny is that he should be released from prison given he only violated his parole due to being poisoned. But at the same time I don't think we should be considering him Russias saviour either. And perhaps we should acknowledge that in Russia there isn't a movement to topple Putin either and if there were, Navalny isn't really that popular enough to have an impact. We should stop playing games in Russia considering we complain when they interfere in our elections and let this be a lesson learnt. Don't send a politician back to Russia who has zero influence there but has many enemies. We cannot play puppetmaster if the puppet doesn't have any strings attached to it to begin with.

[noemon]

As long as we all acknowledge that Navalny is a rightwing nationalistic politician whose historically known comments wouldn't have been out if place in the BNP, especially in regards to immigration, I don't see why or whether he is on the right of Putin really matters actually.

Navalny is a rightwinger fullstop. He is only championed by the West because is was an outspoken politician of Putin that was hoped he could be puppeteered for our interests in Russia. He isn't even desirable considering he doesn't hold Western values but we don't have anyone else so we have to pretend he is morally better than he actually is. It is kind of like debating who is more evil Hitler or Mussolini, you probably will say Hitler but it isn't like Mussolini was an angel by saying that. Germany wouldn't have patched him up and sent him back if they knew Russia was going to send him to prison on a trump charge. The Western media even tried to bring Navalny protests into prominence but they never went anywhere and now you don't hear anything about them because they were never at the scale we hoped they were to begin with. My opinion on Navalny is that he should be released from prison given he only violated his parole due to being poisoned. But at the same time I don't think we should be considering him Russias saviour either. And perhaps we should acknowledge that in Russia there isn't a movement to topple Putin either and if there were, Navalny isn't really that popular enough to have an impact. We should stop playing games in Russia considering we complain when they interfere in our elections and let this be a lesson learnt. Don't send a politician back to Russia who has zero influence there but has many enemies. We cannot play puppetmaster if the puppet doesn't have any strings attached to it to begin with.

As long as we acknowledge that only shameless pro-Putin trolls claim such things then it's fine.

It takes a special kind of troll to openly argue that Navalny is worse than Putin.

Especially when he is sitting in prison while his health is deteriorating under false charges.

Navalny uncovered corruption in Russia, that is his sin.

Navalny plays the nationalist because Russians are all extreme racists and if politicians do not sing their tune they will call them 'traitors'. Navalny is not a traitor for the Russians and that is what grinds the gears of Putin even more.

For someone who is openly racist against the Russian people, you certainly have some cheek, accusing others of it, especially politicians who are actually suffering for their cause.

[B0ycey]

As long as we acknowledge that only shameless pro-Putin trolls claim such things then it's fine.

It takes a special kind of troll to openly argue that Navalny is worse than Putin.

Especially when he is sitting in prison while his health is deteriorating under false charges.

This is the problem we have in the West. We have to side with Navalny because he isn't Putin??? I don't see it like that. I see Putin as a mob figure very much like the mafia but not really against the people of Russia per se. He perhaps was against homosexuality due to the propaganda law or perhaps you could see it as being against Western woke culture not getting into Russian culture I don't know. Putin is a nationalist after all.

I suppose what I am saying is that there are worse leaders out there than Putin but we have to make it out that Putin is beyond evil. Well you know what, Navalnys politics isn't much better. So what does that say about people who support him? I am not saying Navalny should be in prison. He should be free. But if you want to pretend that Navalny is a leftwinger because he is less nationalistic than Putin then I'm sorry you don't have the moral high ground actually. His comments are very similar to the BNP.

[noemon]

This is the problem we have in the West. We have to side with Navalny because he isn't Putin??? I don't see it like that. I see Putin as a mob figure very much like the mafia but not really against the people of Russia per se. He perhaps was against homosexuality due to the propaganda law or perhaps you could see it as being against Western woke culture not getting into Russian culture I don't know. Putin is a nationalist after all.

I suppose what I am saying is that there are worse leaders out there than Putin but we have to make it out that Putin is beyond evil. Well you know what, Navalnys politics isn't much better. So what does that say about people who support him? I am not saying Navalny should be in prison. He should be free. But if you want to pretend that Navalny is a leftwinger because he is less nationalistic than Putin then I'm sorry you don't have the moral high ground actually. His comments are very similar to the BNP.

Navalny has not said anything that Boris hasn't said, nor has he said anything that Putin hasn't done 10 times worse.

This entire Navalny nonsense hinges from when Russians were beating up Muslim migrants during an anti-immigration protest, Navalny was present in that protest, not on the beatings. Putin imprisoned the migrants that were beat up by the Russians.

I don't think there is much to be said with you. It takes special kind of people to badmouth half-dead martyrs sitting in prison for uncovering corruption under such pathetic pretexts.

Also you have elevated yourself into some kind of western king that Navalny requires to get your approval. Your entire posture is ridiculous.

[B0ycey]

You 're talking out of your ass and it's transparent. .

Perhaps I'll drop this off here.

http://www.rferl.org/amp/navalny-failure-to-renounce-nationalist-past-support/31122014.html

Being I don't support Johnson that seems a strawman to link Navalny comments as a comeback against me. It is clear to me you have no clue on Russian politics, historic and current and have set your opinion to support Navalny at all costs. Well that is fine, but you don't hold the moral high ground and pretending that Navalny is a leftwinger when that is just WRONG!

[noemon]

Perhaps I'll drop this off here.

http://www.rferl.org/amp/navalny-failure-to-renounce-nationalist-past-support/31122014.html

Being I don't support Johnson that seems a strawman to link Navalny comments as a comeback against me. It is clear to me you have no clue on Russian politics, historic and current and have set your opinion to support Navalny at all costs. Well that is fine, but you don't hold the moral high ground and pretending that Navalny is a leftwinger when that is just WRONG!

You should read the stuff you post before you post them:

Pro-Kremlin media have for years seized on Navalny's nationalist past, and ratcheted up a campaign to discredit him and his allies ahead of protests he instigated after his January 17 arrest upon arrival at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport from Berlin. On February 2, Navalny was sentenced to two years and eight months in prison for violating parole conditions while recuperating abroad.

You have posted several racist stuff against Russian people, even putting their national successes down to the bloodlines of their "foreign white tsars".

"It's our white blood that made these Russians great". That is your entire contribution to Russian history.

Talking about "morality" while parroting Putin's propaganda to discredit a half-dead person sitting in prison for uncovering corruption in Russia is a step too far even for British nationalists posing as leftists.

[B0ycey]

Talking about "morality" while parroting Putin's propaganda to discredit a half-dead person sitting in prison for uncovering corruption in Russia is a step too far even for British nationalists posing as leftists.

I never claimed anything of the such. I just pointed out that prior to 1917 Russia was never a Superpower and in the 19th century was a serfdom state. That is just history Noemon. You have set your opinion that Russia was a superpower in Victorian times and sorry, it wasn't. But it didn't matter to my argument anyway. So I don't care.

As for Putin, I have not supported him on my comments. I just want Navalny to be judged the same way perhaps. As I said, you seem invested in him for whatever reason. I see him as a movement not going anywhere and perhaps a movement we should evaluate better anyway.

[noemon]

I never claimed anything of the such. I just pointed out that prior to 1917 Russia was never a Superpower and in the 19th century was a serfdom state. That is just history Noemon. You have set your opinion that Russia was a superpower in Victorian times and sorry, it wasn't. But it didn't matter to my argument anyway. So I don't care.

Russia is an officially recognised Great Power in Europe since 1721, under Peter the Great. That is just history, I understand that your British nationalism prevents you from acknowledging Russian Great Power status but noone else cares about your British exceptionalism.

Serfdom was abolished in Prussia(Germany) about the same time it was abolished in Russia. In the UK serfdom was only abolished in the home countries, not in Ireland or other Imperial colonies.

As for Putin, I have not supported him on my comments. I just want Navalny to be judged the same way perhaps. As I said, you seem invested in him for whatever reason. I see him as a movement not going anywhere and perhaps a movement we should evaluate better anyway.

The benefit of the doubt is gone.

You have no leg to stand on and you have no actual argument other than abstract nonsense in an transparent pursuit to discredit a political martyr sitting half-dead in prison for participating in nationalist protests in Russia some 15 years ago and thus cementing his profile as a true patriot among the Russian conscience.

[B0ycey]

You are only demonstrating your profound historical ignorance.

Russian is an officially recognised Great Power in Europe since 1721, under Peter the Great. That is just history, I understand that your British nationalism prevents you from acknowledging Russian Great Power status but noone else cares about your British exceptionalism.

Peter the Great? Tsardom? Sure no links to Serfdom here guys.

Russia has history. Did I say otherwise. It was in many conflicts, notably with the French and British, perhaps the Superpowers of the 19th century. They however didn't seem to have the same colonial past a them. Perhaps there is a reason for that. Besides, was 1917 Russia a superpower to you? Or do you think Russia didn't have a production uptake since Stalin I wonder?

But as I say, I don't care Noemon. Think what you like. It doesn't change history.

You have no leg to stand on and you have no actual argument other than abstract nonsense in an transparent pursuit to discredit a political martyr sitting half-dead in prison for participating in nationalist protests in Russia and thus cementing his profile as a true patriot among the Russian conscience.

My link was in regards to Navalny not renouncing his Nationalistic past comments. As I repeatly say he should be freed and perhaps shouldn't have returned anyway. But given you don't want to comment on Navalnys character nor his Nationalistic comments of the past, I see no point engaging in a person who seems to want to bring this onto Putin for whatever reason when I have barely made a comment on him. I believe they call that a strawman.

[noemon]

But as I say, I don't care Noemon. Think what you like. It doesn't change history.

Your openly racist anti-Russian views do not change history indeed. It's funny you think they do.

Russia was a Great Power since 1721. It's in the historical record, you should get over it.

My link was in regards to Navalny not renouncing his Nationalistic past comments. As I repeatly say he should be freed and perhaps shouldn't have returned anyway. But given you don't want to comment on Navalnys character nor his Nationalistic comments of the past, I see no point engaging in a person who seems to want to bring this onto Putin for whatever reason when I have barely made a comment on him. I believe they call that a strawman.

You are parroting pro-Putin propaganda as your own link informed you explicitly. You are attempting to discredit Putin's opposition while he is sitting half-dead in prison.

Contrary to your self, I have actually discussed Navalny's "nationalism", I do not hold it against him like a racist Brit pretends to because I understand that he was building his profile as a Russian patriot in a country that is ultra-racist due to decades of Putin's stewardship.

He participated in nationalist marches to build his profile so that the Russian deep state is unable to accuse him of being a traitor.

[B0ycey]

Your openly racist anti-Russian views do not change history indeed. It's funny you think they do.

Russia was a Great Power since 1721. It's in the historical record, you should get over it.

How exactly is it racist to state that Russia was a Serfdom state whist its influence was down to Tsars and Royal bloodlines (So Tsardom) and wasn't economically comparable to The British, French, Spanish in the 18th/19th century? When it says great power in your link it means in terms of land domination like the Ottomans and the Holy Roman Empire. It doesn't mean colonialism or production.