[B0ycey]

The US must suck at hacking, because you never heard of disruptions in shit in Russia.

Rumor has it they took down a nuclear plant in Iran though. I suspect Russia are off line. Perhaps that is the secret to protect yourselves.

[Rancid]

I think this situation clearly shows that the enemies of the USA have no fear of reprisal from our old, decrepit, senile, child sniffing, dementia laden, fake President.
And we ain't seen nothing yet.

The solarwinds hack happened under Trumps watch. Didn't it? I would say they also had no fear then.

Rumor has it they took down a nuclear plant in Iran though. I suspect Russia are off line. Perhaps that is the secret to protect yourselves.

I thought that was Israel?

[B0ycey]

I thought that was Israel?

Well rumour has it, it was a cooperation. But that is mere heresy given there is no admission. Besides, do you think the US aren't hacking? The were caught spying on Merkels phone calls. I suspect the difference is the US aren't asking for ransom. Their hacking is down to spying or geopolitics and as such most won't know much about it and the ones who find out will keep their knowledge behind closed doors.

[Rancid]

Besides, do you think the US aren't hacking?

No, but if they are, they seem to be doing a better job about keeping it secret.

Moreover, I'm curious as to why we don't hear about Russia pointing fingers to the US as much as the US points to Russia for hacking.

[B0ycey]

Moreover, I'm curious as to why we don't hear about Russia pointing fingers to the US as much as the US points to Russia for hacking.

I doubt it had anything to do with Russia (government). You are hearing about this incident because there is a ransom and it has an effect to your fuel supply. Any hacking Russia would be doing would be in regards to spying very much like the US as to actually be caught doing something would be akin to see a return attack back towards you. And that is why you don't hear about these things. The whole point of spying is to be under the radar and this is all about money.

[Rancid]

I doubt it had anything to do with Russia (government). You are hearing about this incident because there is a ransom and it has an effect to your fuel supply. Any hacking Russia would be doing would be in regards to spying very much like the US as to actually be caught doing something would be akin to see a return attack back towards you. And that is why you don't hear about these things. The whole point of spying is to be under the radar and this is all about money.

Sure, which answers my broader question.

BTW, I have not stated this particular hack is because of Russia. I also mentioned it's about money (see last post of first page)

[Politics_Observer]

@B0ycey

If these hackers are operating off Russian territory or are Russian citizens, then Russia has a responsibility to prosecute and properly punish these hackers. If they don't, then the Russian government shares responsibility for this hack and retaliation from the United States upon Russia is in order.

[blackjack21]

I know the democrats want to address these issues. However, I am curious what kind of plan do the republicans have to address these issues? Anybody?

Neither of them really know what the hell they're doing, because most politicians aren't tech savvy. How do you write a law on cyber security if you use phrases like "inter web" or "inter tubes"? Think about Bradley Manning. Why did a PFC have access to that much classified information? Even senior military command is hopelessly ignorant of technology.

Obama's administration created Cyber Command. Like Space Force, I think it needs to be a separate force, because some of the smartest computer people are tubs of lard. They would never meet physical requirements. Also, attracting those kinds of people to the military involves paying them more to retain them than you would pay to soldiers.

Another question I have for republicans is if they are still in denial about the Russian state hacking of our elections and how they feel about the fact this hack appears to have been done by a Russian criminal group (though not the Russian state this time)?

This is really sloppy language. An election isn't handled by a single server that can be hacked. It's pretty easy to defeat that stuff if we just use traditional paper ballots. We do not need digital voting. Paper ballots cannot be "hacked," but they can be manufactured and stuffed into ballot boxes.

Will republicans be in denial about this too and be negligent in defending our nation as well as ensure it has the infrastructure it needs to function and operate? Will the republicans remain in denial about these very serious threats to the defense of our nation as well as our economy? Do they even have a real plan?

Why do you think this is a partisan issue? Most IT people tend to be libertarian. They aren't typically all Democrats or Republicans. I've raised the issue many times, and frankly I don't think the government exhibits very much interest in it.

It's not going to do you any good to have backups if that compromise is left uncontained and continues to spread to other systems.

If you snapshot the affected system and compare it to an uninfected backup, at least you might identify the source of infection a bit better.

Then get digital forensic copies of all the effected systems volatile and non-volatile memory. Then they need understand how that breach occurred and conduct an investigation that way they can shore up weaknesses in their defenses (that is after scrubbing infected systems if that is even possible and being sure they are no longer a threat because if they are, they can start to spread that malware again). What sort of exploit was used?

We would also need some best computing practices--preferring references over pointers. Avoiding using pointers whenever possible. Make variables constant so that they aren't writable after assignment. Now the reason we still have practices like that is for performance. Yet, 2/3rds of security holes are typically related to pointers to mutable or shared memory.

Or was it a social engineering attack exploiting human weakness that enabled the attack (my bet was the hackers relied on social engineering to penetrate into the company's systems to plant the ransomware but I could be wrong)?

Jump drives are a great tactic.

Perhaps I am being naive on the difficulties and maybe totally wrong here given I don't know much on cyber security, but I have never understood why national security infrastructure and secrets are on the same bloody telecom network as the World wide Web as that invites hacking.

Right. Maybe the tax code needs to make it really attractive to write off costs or provide tax credits associated to wide area networks rather than using the internet. Closed WANs are much harder to hack.

You have to consider that this cyber attack was an attack on the life blood of the U.S. economy.

Really? Democrats have been opposed to building any new pipelines or refineries. late will go on and on about the need for carbon taxes, etc. Isn't this a good thing and another reason we need to stop fueling our economy with crude oil?

What if this attack was much more successful and broad? What would the implications for the U.S. economy be? What about the possibility that future hacks could effect the global economy?

This a vulnerability to having massive companies like Amazon and Google. What did coronavirus reveal about our supply chains for example?

So, I am interested, what is the republican plan to deal with these latest hacks coming out Russia? Is it to pretend it's all a hoax like they did with the 2016 Russia hacks?

The first thing you need to do is stop pretending that Hillary Clinton's dossier had any merit whatsoever. It has made the country more vulnerable, because it destroyed the credibility of the FBI/DoJ.

Pretend these hacks don't exist or to encourage more hacks out of Russia like Trump did before? Or to actually do something about it and stop these hacks coming out of Russia?

As I've said before, most of the hacking attempts on my systems come out of China, not Russia.

Whose side are the republicans on? You see, this is some of the consequences of republicans ignoring these hacks and pretending they don't exist and of Trump actually encouraging the Russians to hack.

No. It's the consequences of Hillary Clinton using a phony dossier to get the government to spy on Trump's campaign, getting caught, doubling down on it, wasting our time with the Mueller investigation, and impeaching him for investigating Biden's behavior in Ukraine. They aren't smart IT people. They are lawyers. They may not even believe the FBI or CIA, because those agencies are known to lie to the American people and use their powers to play partisan politics.

This hack happened under Biden's watch. Why aren't you interested in holding Biden accountable? He's the one who is supposed to have the plan. He's in control of Cyber Command, DIA, CIA, DoJ, FBI and Homeland Security. Biden has fucked up here, and you seem unable to even arrive at that conclusion. Legislators don't have executive authority.

Seeing as how I'm pro-choice, pro-SSM, as well as other pretty liberal social standpoints, I'd make a poor Republican by today's standards.

We have standards today? Hell, Bruce Jenner is running for California governor as Caitlyn Jenner and as a Republican.

My main hope is that America stop being the prey and start being the predator.

They do this sort of thing too. So does the UK and Israel. Stuxnet was a fine example.

The republicans today are not a party but a personality cult that has a great disdain for freedom, democracy and the national interests of the United States and the American people. Heck, the republicans don't even believe in free trade in a global economy given the trade wars and tariffs Trump has levied during his time in office.

You sure want to make this hack political. However, you seem to be completely ignoring that Biden is in charge now. What do you think Biden's cyber security plan is? Be honest with yourself. You know more about cyber security than he ever will. However, this breach happened on Biden's watch. Why aren't you angry with him for letting the country down like this?

The Russians think it's OK now to attack the life blood of our economy with cyber attacks.

Ah, so that's the angle. A cyber attack happens under Biden's administration, Biden fails to stop it, and you blame it on Trump.

Last I checked, Biden openly said that the next battle front is basically Democracy/Freedom, versus Autocracy/Authoritarianism. He made specific references to China.

Indeed, Biden has kept Trump's tariffs on China. Biden can remove them by executive order, but hasn't.

I live in Georgia, so this hack is probably going to cost me when I go fill up my car at the gas pump today. Literally, it probably will, like no joke. They even got the governor of North Carolina declaring a state of emergency.

Aren't you pissed that Biden, Homeland Security, DIA, Cyber Command, CIA, DoJ and FBI didn't stop this from happening? Isn't that their job?

Perhaps that is the secret to protect yourselves.

It's a big part of it. However, you have to look at other threat vectors like USB jump drives, phishing, spoofing, man-in-the-middle, etc.

The were caught spying on Merkels phone calls.

And people like Julian Assange are in jail without trial for this.

[B0ycey]

@B0ycey

If these hackers are operating off Russian territory or are Russian citizens, then Russia has a responsibility to prosecute and properly punish these hackers. If they don't, then the Russian government shares responsibility for this hack and retaliation from the United States upon Russia is in order.

Russia would have to find them first. Hackers are not easy to find. They cover their tracks. I would say it is up to America to uncover what they can and present their evidence. If they find out something then they can ask for extradition. Until then we have to assume innocence.

[Rancid]

Biden Biden Biden Biden Biden Biden Biden
- Blackjack

[Goranhammer]

We have standards today? Hell, Bruce Jenner is running for California governor as Caitlyn Jenner and as a Republican.

Yeah I have no comeback for that one.

[Politics_Observer]

@B0ycey

I don't want to hear bullshit excuses. Either Russia prosecutes those criminals or hand them over to us, or face retaliation from us. It's as simple as that. It's up to Russia to prosecute criminals on their territory. It's there jurisdiction, not ours. And if they don't prosecute them, then the Russian government shares responsibility and should face retailation from the U.S. government. We can't afford to let this one go otherwise, we will face far more severe hacks in the future from other due to a lack of deterrence.

@blackjack21 @Scamp

You are both telling lies. The Russians thought this was OK because of your man Trump and republicans pretending these hacks didn't happen on their watch. And because they did, the Russians thought it was OK to do it now at the very beginning of Biden's watch because their was no response from Trump and the republicans beforehand for many years on their own watch. Now it is up to Biden to ensure these criminals are brought to justice and if Russia refuses to carry it's responsibility to prosecute these criminals on their territory then retaliation from the U.S. government is required. So don't try to pin this on Biden because any rational objective person know that is bullshit and a lie. Trump and the republicans bear a huge responsibility for this and their failure to respond to past Russian hacks.

If we don't retaliate, then people think they just keep doing this again and again to the U.S. and the next hack could be far worse. So, if Russia doesn't act against these criminals then the US government must take retaliatory measures against the Russian state to ensure future deterrence. Otherwise, we will be facing far worse in the future if we don't retaliate because nobody will be deterred in the future because they think they could get away with it because we let this hack go without a response (and we should only respond if the Russians do not properly prosecute these Russian criminals behind the hack or hand them over to us for prosecution).

[B0ycey]

@B0ycey

I don't want to hear bullshit excuses. Either Russia prosecutes those criminals or hand them over to us, or face retaliation from us. It's as simple as that. It's up to Russia to prosecute criminals on their territory. It's there jurisdiction, not ours. And if they don't prosecute them, then the Russian government shares responsibility and should face retailation from the U.S.

You need to get real. That is like asking for the leader of Anonymous to be extradited to the US for cyber crimes. DarkSide are organised hackers that aren't going to be easy to find, even for the Russian government. They would also need data that the US currently have - being you were hacked - to even stand a chance of figuring out who there are. So again, it is up to you guys to tell Russia who you want extradited. This isn't a political issue for me. Stop making this about Russian government until you can link this to them.

[Politics_Observer]

@B0ycey

I'm as real as it gets buddy. I'm sorry you don't like hearing the truth but this isn't a Candy Land world. The world is a very dangerous place and that is the reality. Security in a dangerous world rests on deterrence and without it, your people do not live in security. If the American people want to live in security in the future, then the U.S. government has a duty and a responsibility to assure deterrence and retaliate upon the Russian state if it fails to prosecute these criminals.

Beside, you clearly don't know what you are talking about when it comes to security issues or you are simply anti-American and do not wish to see America assure it's own security. It's one or the other. This hack didn't effect you so you obviously don't care. But the U.S. government needs to make sure these criminals are held to account properly or the Russian state faces the consequences otherwise.

If Biden fails to see these criminals held to account or the Russian state retaliated upon if they don't prosecute these criminals after the Russian state has all the evidence it needs to prosecute these criminals then blame lies with Biden and the American people should prepare to face even worse attacks in the future given that there will be no deterrence against future cyber attacks. Those are consequences the American people will have to pay in the future if these criminals are not held to account or if the Russian state is not held to account after it has all the evidence it needs to prosecute these criminals.

[B0ycey]

@B0ycey

I'm as real as it gets buddy. I'm sorry you don't like hearing the truth but this isn't a Candy Land world. The world is a very dangerous place and that is the reality. Security in a dangerous world rests on deterrence and without it, your people do not live in security. If the American people want to live in security in the future, then the U.S. government has a duty and a responsibility to assure deterrence and retaliate upon the Russian state if it fails to prosecute these criminals.

Beside, you clearly don't know what you are talking about when it comes to security issues or you are simply anti-American and do not wish to see America assure it's own security. It's one or the other. This hack didn't effect you so you obviously don't care. But the U.S. government needs to make sure these criminals are held to account properly or the Russian state faces the consequences otherwise.

No PO. This is just your usual anti Russian bollocks. It isn't supporting Russia to state the bleeding obvious. I have already said that the US should be investing more into Cyber Security. I have also stated that hackers are not easy to find. So I tell you what, you tell me here and now of names of people you want to see prosecuted by Russia and I will take you anti Russian bollocks with an ounce of respect. Until then it is up to the US to figure out who did this and not for Russia to prosecute someone they don't know. Does that compute to you or are you hell bent on another Cold War?

[Juin]

Yes. Yes it was.

The Space Force is just a renaming. The Air Force already did everything the USSF was designated to do. It was basically just taking something out of a box and putting it into a different one. Contents are still the same.

The Space Force is just superfluous. It was basically just meant to stir up pro-America sentiment when liberal vs. conservative banter was at its highest.

In other words - a distraction.

I dont think so. I see a precedent. The air arm started off in the US as an integral part of the US Army and was known as USAAF or United States Army Air Force. That is until it dawned on the then Army Air Force men that the air arm was not gonna reach its full potential as long as it remained bound to the limited visions of ground commanders. They had their wish in 1947 when USAAF was pried loose from ground commanders and soared away as USAF. Maybe it is time to have a space force not shackled to the narrow concerns of ground support air men.

[Politics_Observer]

@B0ycey

No PO. This is just your usual anti Russian bollocks. It isn't supporting Russia to state the bleeding obvious. I have already said that the US should be investing more into Cyber Security. I have also stated that hackers are not easy to find. So I tell you what, you tell me here and now of names of people you want to see prosecuted by Russia and I will take you anti Russian bollocks with an ounce of respect. Until then it is up to the US to figure out who did this and not for Russia to prosecute someone they don't know. Does that compute to you or are you hell bent on another Cold War?

You don't know if this criminal group has the approval to operate in Russia by the Russian government. The Russian government, I think uses these criminal groups to attack other states so that they can wipe their hands clean and claim they had nothing to do with it, all without prosecuting these criminal groups and allowing them to operate in their jurisdiction because they do what the Russian government wants them to do. It gives the Russian government plausible deniability.

If the Russian government doesn't make a genuine honest good faith effort to investigate any of these criminal groups operating in their own jurisdiction and simply allow them to operate against the U.S. with impunity then the Russian government shares responsibility for this cyber attack on U.S. infrastructure and is fair game for a target of retaliation from the U.S. government as part of assuring the security of the U.S. economy and the American people. I think, you have it upside down. Perhaps, it is your anti-American views, that obfuscates your ability to see this from a fair and honest perspective.

[Pants-of-dog]

As far as I can tell, Putin is just another capitalist oligarch. Perhaps a bit more brutal, but whatever. So I have no dog in this fight.

Having said that, is there any evidence Russia is involved in any way?

[Rancid]

@Politics_Observer, don't fill up garbage cans with gasoline or anything stupid like that.

Having said that, is there any evidence Russia is involved in any way?

No. Thus far, the idea that Russia green lit this in any way is pure speculation. However, the current analysis say's it did come from eastern Europe. That said, it is well known that Russia basically looks the other way (and sometimes encourages) independent non-government affiliated hacker groups to attack/fuck with other nations. Thus, although it would be wrong to point the finger at Russia for this, it's not outside the realm of possibility they unofficially allowed it (i.e. looked the other way).

The world today, is about exploiting the grey area. Everyone has to ask themselves if they want to get down in the dirt and do the same . @Politics_Observer seems to say yes to this question. I don't know if that's the right answer, but you can certainly end up being a sucker if you always take the moral high road in these matters. The world is complex, and some people will eat your lunch I guess.

[B0ycey]

You don't know if this criminal group has the approval to operate in Russia by the Russian government. The Russian government, I think uses these criminal groups to attack other states so that they can wipe their hands clean and claim they had nothing to do with it, all without prosecuting these criminal groups and allowing them to operate in their jurisdiction because they do what the Russian government wants them to do. It gives the Russian government plausible deniability.

If the Russian government doesn't make a genuine honest good faith effort to investigate any of these criminal groups operating in their own jurisdiction and simply allow them to operate against the U.S. with impunity then the Russian government shares responsibility for this cyber attack on U.S. infrastructure and is fair game for a target of retaliation from the U.S. government as part of assuring the security of the U.S. economy and the American people. I think, you have it upside down. Perhaps, it is your anti-American views, that obfuscates your ability to see this from a fair and honest perspective.

Right, I know if this hacking group has approval to operate in Russia as much as you know they do. That is to say we don't know shit. Until there is a link we should assume there is no link considering that is the most likely outcome given this incident is about money along with provoking a cyber retailation if a link was discovered. As for Russia investigating this for you guys, have you (American government) requested they do so yet (no)? If not, why would they do that considering you hold all the data to even stand a chance of figuring out their location and identity. Just another anti Russian post with little substance except an assumption on your part PO. But sanction Russia if you like, I doubt they care. You have done as much as you can do in terms of trade without it being a massive own goal against you and have been left with dispelling diplomats the last few occasions which were reciprocated. I personally would advice to get evidence of you assertion rather than just assume and I suspect that is what America will do. Otherwise you just look dumb.