2021 Israeli-Palestine Conflict - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15172119


Fact: No one will get charged for that on video lynching murder. Unlike Chauvin did.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-eas ... 57rhm.html

Of cause this new Intifada was as usual caused by the Israeli Police force and the racist Ramadan crackdown on worshippers at Al Aqsa mosque, which was subsequently celebrated on video by the "Third Temple" nationalists. Make no mistake about that.

Note: Guys can someone please post this and take an interest in Israeli-palestine politics next time. Because I seem to be the only user interested in Israeli political news now, but when post such news I am obviously admittedly politically biased. I would rather someone else posted this important international news. I mean they're on the brink of another war.
#15172274
Just shooting fish in a barrel. There is no conflict here. A one sided slaughter. Rockets did get launched from south lebanon, but hezbollah would launch thousands, not 4 so it's some palestinians there nothing more. Gaza's palestinians are going to get genocided on live television, one demolished high rise at a time.

It's also interesting to note how unable the Biden administration has been to keep pace with the conflict.


huh? Blocked UN resolution condemning israel, blocked another SC meeting on the events, and now praising israel on television. If there ever was a corrupted puppet regime, this is how it would behave.
#15172302
One theory is that Hamas is eyeing the west bank and positioning themselves to take over control from the useless Abbas. Thats why they started by shooting rockets into Jerusalem. My guess is the average Palestinian on the street in the WB hate them both. As usual, Hamas are trying to hijack a genuine grassroots movement for their own political ends. Ho hum...
#15172305
colliric wrote:
Of cause this new Intifada was as usual caused by the Israeli Police force and the racist Ramadan crackdown on worshippers at Al Aqsa mosque, which was subsequently celebrated on video by the "Third Temple" nationalists. Make no mistake about that.

Note: Guys can someone please post this and take an interest in Israeli-palestine politics next time. Because I seem to be the only user interested in Israeli political news now, but when post such news I am obviously admittedly politically biased. I would rather someone else posted this important international news. I mean they're on the brink of another war.




I am interested in Israeli-Palestinian politics, but I get the impression I am at the opposite end from you. That should not be taken to mean I am unlikely to concede some points to you. But was there not a case of rocks pelted down on Jews wailing at the Wailing Wall?

Hamas, if some rumours be believed, has been sending truce signals. Typical Hamas. Always banking on Limited Liability wars. Shoot all your rockets, then immediately scream for hudna. Thereby limiting retaliatory damage. Very smart. Won't it be nice if one could be guaranteed Limited liabilities in wars one unleashes?
#15172309
Juin wrote:But was there not a case of rocks pelted down on Jews wailing at the Wailing Wall?


Undoubtedly. Just like there were cases of Palestinian being randomly beaten by settler mobs, and on the other side Palestinians committing their fair share of atrocities on jews. But tallying up individual crimes and presenting a score sheet isn't particularly useful. Whats more useful is to consider the actual root causes here. For example, do you agree its unjust that jews having the right, under Israeli law, to claim property that their ancestors were removed from in 1948, yet the Palestinians cannot do the same?
#15172310
GandalfTheGrey wrote:Undoubtedly. Just like there were cases of Palestinian being randomly beaten by settler mobs, and on the other side Palestinians committing their fair share of atrocities on jews. But tallying up individual crimes and presenting a score sheet isn't particularly useful. Whats more useful is to consider the actual root causes here. For example, do you agree its unjust that jews having the right, under Israeli law, to claim property that their ancestors were removed from in 1948, yet the Palestinians cannot do the same?




Score 1 for the Palestinian side of the debate.
#15172390
Beren wrote:Live Updates: Israel Adds Ground Forces to Its Assault on Gaza

So Netanyahu's got what he wanted, I guess, I wonder if it makes or breaks him. It's also interesting to note how unable the Biden administration has been to keep pace with the conflict.


That was a ruse, although it did make the Palestinian militias expose their positions.

To me that signals Israel isn't quite interested in a long operation at all, which I suspect is also something Hamas doesn't want.

As for the causes for this escalation, I'd add the pandemic restrictions as well since that meant Israeli police was enforcing restrictions on gatherings during Ramadan. It's no different to the problems they've had with Haredim refusing to follow social distancing throughout the pandemic (also the ultimate cause of the Mt Meron disaster). But of course the usual suspects will prefer to ignore the pandemic factor here, eh @colliric?

@GandalfTheGrey I agree with your comment about Israeli hypocrisy on property rights, but it goes both ways. If Palestinians don't like having Jews claiming British or Ottoman era property deeds in Jerusalem and the West Bank then I would say they may want to rethink similar claims in Israel proper. All in all, though, recognizing all those claims would actually be more disruptive for Israel here.

It's no different from the hypocrisy from the likes of @Igor Antunov who are quick to claim all sorts of stupid stuff about Israel while wetting themselves when Russia invades its neighbors despite not suffering any attacks in its territory.
#15172406
wat0n wrote:To me that signals Israel isn't quite interested in a long operation at all

You mean Netanyahu, right? Sure, it's just part of his petty political games to remain in power.
#15172410
But of course the usual suspects will prefer to ignore the pandemic factor here, eh @colliric?


No I'm not ignoring that, I don't think that helped. But it's not the main issue, and never was. You're making that out to be important, when it was one of those issues that simply doesn't help an already bad situation.

I also suspect the successive failure to oust Netanyahu in multiple drawn elections in a short period of time, for a more moderate PM slightly more Arab friendly, probably upset the Muslim citizens significantly as well and they were probably angry with the election results being crap again.
#15172416
Beren wrote:You mean Netanyahu, right? Sure, it's just part of his petty political games to remain in power.


Well, honestly, what seems to be really helping him to do just that is the communal violence between Israelis themselves. I don't think he expected that to happen, and is indeed the only truly new development in this whole affair. I also think that if he truly planned something like this, it's a high risk plan since the rioting can easily backfire if the IDF needs to be deployed in Israeli cities to repress Arab and Jewish rioters alike.

This was (and still is) also a high risk venture for Hamas as well, and I doubt either had an appetite for this kind of thing. It's just part of the current status quo, with tensions being exacerbated by the consequences of the pandemic.

colliric wrote:No I'm not ignoring that, I don't think that helped. But it's not the main issue, and never was. You're making that out to be important, when it was one of those issues that simply doesn't help an already bad situation.


No, it was important since that meant extra restrictions had to be enforced on Ramadan prayers, particularly early on, to stop spreading the virus. It's no different from Haredim rioting a few months ago when Israel was in lockdown.

colliric wrote:I also suspect the successive failure to oust Netanyahu in multiple drawn elections in a short period of time, for a more moderate PM slightly more Arab friendly, probably upset the Muslim citizens significantly as well and they were probably angry with the election results being crap again.


Muslim citizens? That inability to get a stable government seems to be upsetting everyone, I agree, but it's one reason among many. Israel's economy has also been hurt by the pandemic, just as it's happened everywhere else.

Also Jews are rioting too, and that's a new development. But it's not surprising since there have been riots in several countries as a result of the pandemic-induced restrictions and corresponding recession.
#15172418
wat0n wrote:if he truly planned something like this, it's a high risk plan

Sure, it is, but why would he not take the risk? He needs to find a way out of his dire situation sooner or later anyway and war with Hamas may seem a rather workable one.
#15172419
Beren wrote:Sure, it is, but why would he not take the risk? He needs to find a way out of his dire situation sooner or later anyway and war with Hamas may seem a rather workable one.


Because it could actually lead to a stronger coalition to oust him. It's not like that the forming of the Lapid anti-Bibi coalition was a given at all, since they don't seem to be able to agree on a government program.

A war, however, could lead him to clearly lose the next election should Lapid fail to form a coalition.
#15172420
wat0n wrote:Because it could actually lead to a stronger coalition to oust him. It's not like that the forming of the Lapid anti-Bibi coalition was a given at all, since they don't seem to be able to agree on a government program.

A war, however, could lead him to clearly lose the next election should Lapid fail to form a coalition.

You've just detailed the risks he took, however, a war with Hamas still may seem a relatively safe bet to him. I wonder if what else he could have tried to come out of the deadlock as a winner.
#15172421
Wasting Palestinian children with big phallic missiles is a surefire way to lose votes among Israel's famously dovish population. :lol:
#15172433
Beren wrote:You've just detailed the risks he took, however, a war with Hamas still may seem a relatively safe bet to him. I wonder if what else he could have tried to come out of the deadlock as a winner.


He could have waited it out and gone for an election saying he's the only one who can and has given stability to Israel if or when Lapid failed to form a coalition. It seems like a safer bet than a war to me, even more so given the riots going on the home front right now. The latter are always a possibility during a conflict, and if he has to send IDF soldiers to restore order and particularly to repress Jewish rioters (Arabs are unlikely to vote for him so he probably doesn't lose all that much from repressing Arab rioters, although he and the Likud did try to seek Arab votes as well)... Who knows what will that do to his electoral prospects.
#15172438
wat0n wrote:He could have waited it out and gone for an election saying he's the only one who can and has given stability to Israel if or when Lapid failed to form a coalition. It seems like a safer bet than a war to me

I wonder if how saying he's the only one who can and has given stability to Israel would solve anything for him, I also believe he means to prevent Lapid from forming a coalition as well as to strengthen himself as a leader with that war.
#15172440
Beren wrote:I wonder if how saying he's the only one who can and has given stability to Israel solves anything for him, I also believe he means to prevent Lapid from forming a coalition as well as strengthening himself as a leader with that war.


How wouldn't it? Why do you think he's been able to get himself reelected all the way until 2019?

Bibi's main selling point until then was that he'd managed to achieve stability for the most part. But all governments burn out sooner or later, his is no exception.
#15172443
wat0n wrote:Also Jews are rioting too, and that's a new development. But it's not surprising since there have been riots in several countries as a result of the pandemic-induced restrictions and corresponding recession.


No it's not. Ultra-Orthodox Hasidic Jews protest the Israeli government all the time, because with some exceptions (like pro-zionist Chabad-Lubavitch) they religiously in fact do not believe at all in the existence of the Jewish state(since it was not founded by the Messiah under Messianic conditions and is therefore not Torah correct), protest Sabbath violations by secular Jews, protest the IDF draft and also support the Palestinians(in fact in a one state Palestine-only fashion as they literally believe in destroying the Zionist State). The two major Jewish organisations that hold that position are Satmar and Neturei Karta. The Pandemic crackdown gave them more reason to hate the Zionists.

A documentary about NK:


The other more normally clothed anti-arab Jewish rioters are also not new, see the documentary "Forever Pure" which is about Israeli racism.
Last edited by colliric on 14 May 2021 17:41, edited 1 time in total.
#15172445
wat0n wrote:How wouldn't it? Why do you think he's been able to get himself reelected all the way until 2019?

Bibi's main selling point until then was that he'd managed to achieve stability for the most part. But all governments burn out sooner or later, his is no exception.

It seems his main selling point doesn't work anymore, right? So what else does? Unsurprisingly enough he seems to have figured out that war with Hamas could.
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