[litwin]

Radovan Karadzic: Ex-Bosnian Serb leader to be sent to UK prison, Putin is the next in the line


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57090123

UK prisons are the best place for all Asiatic despots

[Heisenberg]

Putin is the next in the line

Good luck with that.

[litwin]

Good luck with that.

dont worry about my luck , whats about your buddy´s ( czar´s poogabe) luck

[Politics_Observer]

@litwin

In many ways, it almost seems like yesterday I was over there in the Balkans serving as a NATO peacekeeper in that part of the world after the war there was over. I remember watching on the news when the war was going on. I also remember seeing the aftermath of the war as a NATO peacekeeper. Now, in other ways, it's history from a long time ago. The war started 30 years ago. But I remember watching it on the news like it was yesterday. It makes me feel old. I look at Karadzic now and he is an old man with nothing but grey hair in his 70s, but I remember watching him on the news when he was so much younger and didn't have near the grey hair he has now. It was a different time back then.

[Juin]

@litwin

In many ways, it almost seems like yesterday I was over there in the Balkans serving as a NATO peacekeeper in that part of the world after the war there was over. I remember watching on the news when the war was going on. I also remember seeing the aftermath of the war as a NATO peacekeeper. Now, in other ways, it's history from a long time ago. The war started 30 years ago. But I remember watching it on the news like it was yesterday. It makes me feel old. I look at Karadzic now and he is an old man with nothing but grey hair in his 70s, but I remember watching him on the news when he was so much younger and didn't have near the grey hair he has now. It was a different time back then.

You were stationed in the Balkans! How fascinating. You were a witness to history. It is hard to imagine that it has been 30 years. It all feels like it was yesterday, but it was a long time ago. Bill Clinton was President then. Bill Clinton oversaw the greatest Nato expansion, if I am not mistaken.

[Politics_Observer]

@Juin

I was in Bosnia AFTER the Dayton Peace Accords were signed as part of SFOR (I wasn't there for IFOR). However, when I was there, large parts of Bosnia was still in shambles. Literally every single building in Kula Grad was blown to pieces and one side of the mountain that Kula Grad sat on was mined to hell and back. We were constantly finding new land mines on our own base camp at the time and constantly having to rope them off with yellow tape so nobody would accidentally step on them. It's a miracle we didn't lose anybody to a land mine when I was there.

Been to Srebrencia and Potocari. Provided security for the families of the victims of the Srebrencia massacre when they went to Potocari to pay their respects for their relatives who were killed in the massacre. There were mass graves everywhere at the time I was there. Been to Sarajevo and Butmir as well as to Mostar. The Stari Moast bridge was blown to pieces at the time I was there patrolling with the French Marines (I was the US Army National Guard but we went on long road marches with the French Marines all up and down the mountains of Bosnia over-looking Mostar as well as on joint patrols, ate in their chow halls too). Now, it has been rebuilt since the time I was there. It was quite an interesting tour. I remember it well. We don't have troops there anymore.

[litwin]

@litwin

In many ways, it almost seems like yesterday I was over there in the Balkans serving as a NATO peacekeeper in that part of the world after the war there was over. I remember watching on the news when the war was going on. I also remember seeing the aftermath of the war as a NATO peacekeeper. Now, in other ways, it's history from a long time ago. The war started 30 years ago. But I remember watching it on the news like it was yesterday. It makes me feel old. I look at Karadzic now and he is an old man with nothing but grey hair in his 70s, but I remember watching him on the news when he was so much younger and didn't have near the grey hair he has now. It was a different time back then.

"Balkans serving as a NATO peacekeeper" sir, people like you are the real heroes, not a bunch of BLM PR Marxists who saved no one, did nothing for humanity ,
do you know in Balkans Moscow imperialists 1 time shown their real ugly faces? we´d stop the moscow horde in 90s,...

[Politics_Observer]

@litwin

Dude I am no hero. Just a regular dude like you. I didn't do anything cool or spectacular in the Balkans. Just a simple soldier and peacekeeper. A regular dude like anybody here.

[litwin]

@litwin

Dude I am no hero. Just a regular dude like you. I didn't do anything cool or spectacular in the Balkans. Just a simple soldier and peacekeeper. A regular dude like anybody here.

you know we have to proud of our civilization, in middle of war with salafi/wahhabism we saved 2 Muslim nations from annihilation by Serbian /Muscovite hordes . no other civilization has ever done it, you are the real hero , your family and buddies must be proud of you

[Politics_Observer]

@litwin

Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate it. However, I don't want to be anybody's hero. I just want to be a regular dude who gets along with most people. That's it. I just like to be one of the guys.

[Politics_Observer]

@litwin

It's good to have somebody on my team though here on Politics Forum. Others regard me as the "Imperialist American."

[litwin]

@litwin

It's good to have somebody on my team though here on Politics Forum. Others regard me as the "Imperialist American."

"Others" you mean KGB trolls, and Moscow useful idiots ? who cares what free world haters think or feel , its our civilization our rules m they ´d be deported to omsk

[Politics_Observer]

@litwin

I think you hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more with you!

[Juin]

@Juin

I was in Bosnia AFTER the Dayton Peace Accords were signed as part of SFOR (I wasn't there for IFOR). However, when I was there, large parts of Bosnia was still in shambles. Literally every single building in Kula Grad was blown to pieces and one side of the mountain that Kula Grad sat on was mined to hell and back. We were constantly finding new land mines on our own base camp at the time and constantly having to rope them off with yellow tape so nobody would accidentally step on them. It's a miracle we didn't lose anybody to a land mine when I was there.

Been to Srebrencia and Potocari. Provided security for the families of the victims of the Srebrencia massacre when they went to Potocari to pay their respects for their relatives who were killed in the massacre. There were mass graves everywhere at the time I was there. Been to Sarajevo and Butmir as well as to Mostar. The Stari Moast bridge was blown to pieces at the time I was there patrolling with the French Marines (I was the US Army National Guard but we went on long road marches with the French Marines all up and down the mountains of Bosnia over-looking Mostar as well as on joint patrols, ate in their chow halls too). Now, it has been rebuilt since the time I was there. It was quite an interesting tour. I remember it well. We don't have troops there anymore.

That is a most fascinating experience. It is always an honour to listen to a witness of history. I salute your service to the United States of America.

That said, I must also add that I will still as equally salute those who have served and died for the United States. Not only US campaigns have been covered in glory. Others had the misfortune of getting posted to say abu Ghraib in Iraq, which covered itself in ignominy over what went on there; yet, I will still salute those soldiers who were deployed at abu Ghraib; given that not all posted there went about mistreating prisoners.

As far as Balkan history goes there are no heroes and villains. For example the Croats who yesterday, were on the Allied side against Yugoslavia, in an earlier war were on the Nazi side doing a number on Serbs. A simple Serbs are bad, and all others are good does not stand even a casual reading of Balkan history. The Turks who another in the forum lauds as allies and good guys also have the blood of Armenians on their hands from an ancient genocide. I dont think the Greeks love the Turks that much either.

I am only pointing out these out because someone in the thread is getting carried away.

[Politics_Observer]

@Juin

There is a lot I can tell you. We got a few board members here who are from that area. Some fled the wars there or the aftermath of the war there because there was no future for them. I correspond with a Bosnian woman from time to time who lost her home in Bosnia when she was a kid, which was taken from her by the Serbs. She now lives here in the United States and is pursuing her Ph.D in genocide studies. She also taught high school kids here in the United States before moving on to pursue her doctorate degree. Very intelligent woman. I have also been to Tuzla, Osmaci, Zvenica (not sure if I spelled that correctly), Zvornik and Brcko (pronouced birch-coe).

I think back on those experiences back then and they are experiences I will never forget. I am glad I went. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I remember drinking red wine the French Marines. I also remember seeing dead bodies in mass graves. That was part of the job though and comes with the nature of the job. I also walked down Sniper Alley and drove past the newspaper building there that was blown to pieces by the Serbs at the time. It was targeted during the war because it was telling the truth about the war and the Serbs wanted to silence it (probably in the minds of the Serbs, they might have viewed it as propaganda) but in my view they were telling the truth.

There was terrible crimes committed during the war but war is also pure evil. I personally don't think most Serbs are bad people. From what I saw, they were just normal people at the time, caught in a bad, shitty mess trying to survive and do what they could to survive given the cards they were dealt. They are human beings just like you and me. Serbs are not inherently bad people. Nor are the Bosnian Muslims or Croats. You know, it was crooked politicians that created a shitty mess. You know. Good people on all sides died senselessly because of crooked politicians. That's about the long and the short of it. But the people there are good people and I remember them as good people who were just caught in a terrible and bad situation because of crooked politicians.

I also ate plenty of cvapis and drank plenty of Turkish coffee when I was there too. Drina cigarettes were also a thing for many of the natives in Bosnia. They certinaly like to smoke their Drinas.

[Juin]

@Juin

There is a lot I can tell you. We got a few board members here who are from that area. Some fled the wars there or the aftermath of the war there because there was no future for them. I correspond with a Bosnian woman from time to time who lost her home in Bosnia when she was a kid, which was taken from her by the Serbs. She now lives here in the United States and is pursuing her Ph.D in genocide studies. She also taught high school kids here in the United States before moving on to pursue her doctorate degree. Very intelligent woman. I have also been to Tuzla, Osmaci, Zvenica (not sure if I spelled that correctly), Zvornik and Brcko (pronouced birch-coe).

I think back on those experiences back then and they are experiences I will never forget. I am glad I went. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I remember drinking red wine the French Marines. I also remember seeing dead bodies in mass graves. That was part of the job though and comes with the nature of the job. I also walked down Sniper Alley and drove past the newspaper building there that was blown to pieces by the Serbs at the time. It was targeted during the war because it was telling the truth about the war and the Serbs wanted to silence it (probably in the minds of the Serbs, they might have viewed it as propaganda) but in my view they were telling the truth.

There was terrible crimes committed during the war but war is also pure evil. I personally don't think most Serbs are bad people. From what I saw, they were just normal people at the time, caught in a bad, shitty mess trying to survive and do what they could to survive given the cards they were dealt. They are human beings just like you and me. Serbs are not inherently bad people. Nor are the Bosnian Muslims or Croats. You know, it was crooked politicians that created a shitty mess. You know. Good people on all sides died senselessly because of crooked politicians. That's about the long and the short of it. But the people there are good people and I remember them as good people who were just caught in a terrible and bad situation because of crooked politicians.

I also ate plenty of cvapis and drank plenty of Turkish coffee when I was there too. Drina cigarettes were also a thing for many of the natives in Bosnia. They certinaly like to smoke their Drinas.

If I go by my memory I recall a location spelled something like "Sverenica".

True, war is evil, and this has been the case throughout Balkan history. Memories are long in that part of the world. We talking centuries old grudges. With American intervention a certain peace and quiet reigns. The Pax Americana does come with benefits. But dont count on it to last forever. America has lots of faults, and many have pointed them out ad infinitum, but I cannot help but recall the Winston Churchill quote:


‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947------


I can equally say that America, as well as its Pax Americana, may be argued by some to be the worst form of Imperium that ever was, but I will say that is except for all the other shining examples like Mongols, Russia, Nazis, Turks etc... A certain peace and calm today reigns in the Balkans, that is all thanks to America.

The day American power wanes and its footprints are lifted from the Balkans, I bet you, you will be surprised how fast the various tribes there will pull out the hideous instruments of war to settle old grudges going back centuries. Rest assured that each of the tribes in the Balkans knows exactly who owes them an atrocity or atrocities from some distant past; who is sitting on a piece of real estate they consider theirs. That is just the nature of humans.

For whatever it is worth America did create peace and stability there that is still holding. You contributed your bit, that is all anyone can ask.

[Politics_Observer]

@Juin

You ever been to the Balkans yourself? Most people over in the Balkans do not want a return to the war over there. They just want to live in peace and prosperity like the rest of us do. A lot of the problems over in the Balkans are because of crooked politicians pitting people against each other in a fight none of them wants (the politicians did it because that was how they stayed in power, it was about power for them). What happened in the Balkans can happen anywhere. It's not unique to the Balkans. A lot of politicians trying to fill a void they have in the life with power. I always question somebody who wants power.

[Juin]

@Juin

You ever been to the Balkans yourself? Most people over in the Balkans do not want a return to the war over there. They just want to live in peace and prosperity like the rest of us do. A lot of the problems over in the Balkans are because of crooked politicians pitting people against each other in a fight none of them wants (the politicians did it because that was how they stayed in power, it was about power for them). What happened in the Balkans can happen anywhere. It's not unique to the Balkans. A lot of politicians trying to fill a void they have in the life with power. I always question somebody who wants power.

Joseph de Maistre said, "every nation gets the government it deserves". Barack Obama also opined in same vein, "you get the politicians you deserve". And there is much truth to that. Politicians dont fall from heaven. They spring from the substrata, and are nutured by the vices and virtues of that substrata. Yes, politicians are corrupt, but it is too easy to blame the faults and vices of the substrata from which they spring on them.

Human beings are a mass of contradictions. It is a contradiction to desire peace while also refusing to let go claims and beliefs that are guaranteed to lead to war. Do Armenians and Azerbaijanis desire peace any less than Balkans? Yet they just fought over Nargono Karabak. There is now a calm of sorts, but no body is ready to bet that hostilities will not break out in another decade. And that is being optimistic.

Look, the peace and security that now reigns in the Balkans is thanks to the much maligned Pax Americana. And that holds true as well for the old Europe of France, Germany, Italy etc. Europe is at peace today because of America. The day American power and infulence wanes- as is inevitable, given the notion of an eternal Imperium is absurd- Europeans will go back to their old sport of regular wars.

I have never been to the Balkans. But it does not take a Balkan to observe that the latest round of conflicts in the '90s that the US finally managed to put a lid on were over centuries old claims.

[Politics_Observer]

@Juin

Well, you also have to consider that Americans have been killing one another for centuries when you think about it. Look at our murder rates and the American Civil War. But I also agree too with the notion that you get the politicians you deserve. We got Trump because you know the United States is a racist white supremacist country and a lot of whites wanted to maintain their white privilege and the white supremacy the United States was founded on. So, a lot of racist and misogynistic whites went to the polls while blacks stayed home because they weren't excited about Hillary and we got Trump. Then when the blacks started seeing the racism of Trump and how terrible and horrible he was (and Trump represents all that is wrong with America) and they went to the polls in 2020 and made sure he was voted out.

[Juin]

@Juin

Well, you also have to consider that Americans have been killing one another for centuries when you think about it. Look at our murder rates and the American Civil War. But I also agree too with the notion that you get the politicians you deserve. We got Trump because you know the United States is a racist white supremacist country and a lot of whites wanted to maintain their white privilege and the white supremacy the United States was founded on. So, a lot of racist and misogynistic whites went to the polls while blacks stayed home because they weren't excited about Hillary and we got Trump. Then when the blacks started seeing the racism of Trump and how terrible and horrible he was (and Trump represents all that is wrong with America) and they went to the polls in 2020 and made sure he was voted out.

In my book American whites actually score quite high. It is still the land of John Brown, no? The high price in blood shed during the Civil War was unfortunate, yet, hands down, it stands as the the greatest human contest over the definition of what is the definition, rights and prerogatives of each individual of the Homo sapiens species. The souls of the combatants rest in peace. And I mean both the Blue and the Gray.