Afghan President flees country-Islamic Republic surrenders. Taliban takes country. - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15185545
Well that was fast.

Afghanistan will have a “peaceful transfer of power” to the Taliban, the country’s interior minister said.
Talks are underway to form an interim government led by the militant group, CNN reported. -denied by Taliban
Ashraf Ghani, the country’s president, has fled Afghanistan for Tajikistan, according to Reuters.


https://www.businessinsider.com.au/tali ... &r=US&IR=T
https://apnews.com/article/afghanistan- ... c51b8e32a5
https://www.dailysabah.com/world/asia-p ... terim-govt

US is scrambling choppers to evacuate its staff from embassy and airport. Taliban is already in Kabul.
Image

I also found some very ripe milk spilled on the floor.
Last edited by Igor Antunov on 15 Aug 2021 18:24, edited 2 times in total.
#15185564
I hope the Republicans immediately push to remove him from power.

Senile bastard should be forced to undergo cognitive testing and be removed from office if he fails. Heck Kamala would be an improvement at this stage.

The Taliban took advantage of an incompetent US administration, a senile President and won in a Blitzkrieg.

Trump would acted more decisively, and would have kept his word to the Taliban on the earlier withdrawal date, as well as dealt recriminations in the form of airstrikes should the Taliban renege on the deal.

Since it was Biden that delayed the withdrawal and broke the agreement, they obviously decided to send a message.
#15185566
US forces were all but gone from Afghanistan during Trump's term. You're full of shit, @colliric.

As Ordered by Trump, US Down to 2,500 Troops in Afghanistan
https://www.voanews.com/south-central-a ... fghanistan
#15185567
This brings me to a realisation - what if much of NATO, south korea and japan are similarly fucking useless when left on their own? Recall SK crumpled like a paper bag the first time before the US had to bring in 500,000 troops to reverse NK gains. What's changed? Their weapons are newer and shinier?

This is a Taliban fighter advancing on Kabul today;

Image

ANA had 20 years, access to US equipment AND hundreds of billions of dollars - to get its shit together. It folded in the face of guys with mismatched sandals and rags for clothes.
#15185573
Godstud wrote:US forces were all but gone from Afghanistan during Trump's term. You're full of shit, @colliric.

As Ordered by Trump, US Down to 2,500 Troops in Afghanistan
https://www.voanews.com/south-central-a ... fghanistan


From your own article:
The drawdown should continue under the Biden administration, and full exit completed by May


“We appreciate this step. We call for the Doha agreement to be fully implemented and all American troops must leave Afghanistan by May,” Mujahid told VOA.


The Taliban has warned any deviation from the pact would mean continuation of the war.


Biden reneged on the deal by breaking the May date. Your own article explicitly says so. This is why you always implement the deal as is. Biden delayed the withdrawal, then goaded and insulted the Taliban(directly on video as you can clearly see), motivating them to prove him wrong.

You just refuse to see "Saint Biden" as being a senile old man surfing from obvious dementia. He needs a cognitive test and everyone knows it.

When you defend Biden like this, you reveal yourself to be a Democrat cultist, regardless of what you say about "would vote for another party". Nope I highly doubt that, you'd be a hardcore Democrat as defensive posts like that prove. Saigon 2.0 literally happening while Biden is commander in chief, yet you still defend him.
Last edited by colliric on 15 Aug 2021 17:45, edited 2 times in total.
#15185574
Igor Antunov wrote:
This brings me to a realisation - what if much of NATO, south korea and japan are similarly fucking useless when left on their own?



You are such a goofball.

The people of Afghan did not support the government. The Afghan army had more soldiers, better weapons and better training. But they did not believe in the Afghan government, it was just a paycheck.

Do you know any Koreans? Personally, I wouldn't want to fight them.

Take away the lunatics from your list, and you're left with Russia and China as enemies. Russia doesn't have the money to do a war, and they utterly depend on the money they get from their petro exports. So they invade the wrong country, and the income dries up at the same time their expense explode. Get real.

China has little ability to project power. So while Japan is worried, and it should be, the Chinese navy isn't ready to attack them, won't be for a generation.
#15185579
Igor Antunov wrote:This brings me to a realisation - what if much of NATO, south korea and japan are similarly fucking useless when left on their own? Recall SK crumpled like a paper bag the first time before the US had to bring in 500,000 troops to reverse NK gains. What's changed? Their weapons are newer and shinier?



This whole Afghan debacle got me thinking a bit on what makes a military alliance potent. Is it just its brute force and striking powet? Are there other intangibles that come into play? Are intangibles like determination, credibility often undervalued in favour of tangibles like tanks, ships, fighter jets?

We have seen far too often in history how smaller rising powers have challenged, and dominated powerful alliances that on paper dwarfed them?

A military alliance is like a wolf pack. The pack does not run itself as a democracy. There is always a leader, which leader sets the pace, and the pack follows without hesitation. The pack leader cannot falter. The pack leader cannot create, or allow doubt in his leadership and determination. The striking power of the pack depends on its ability to strike as a whole. The moment the internal cohesion in the pack erodes, it is the death of the pack.

That is why this Afghan debacle is so disturbing. It has created doubt in the determination of the leader of the pack. His commitment to the pack has been placed into question by the grim, turbaned jihadists. Members of the pack are mumbling whether the pack will be there for them if or when under attack.

That is the psychological damage of the debacle.

A pack leader - and the US is the pack leader in many alliances- ignores those intangibles at its peril.

Bring up Russia.

Da bear is often dismissed as a has been because its GDP is on the level of that of Texas. But the intangibles are missing, in my opinion. One has to ask; who is much more likely to credibly deliver: Scowling Putin or Senile Biden?

Putin can deliver, and has delivered. Syria is a case in point. The Assad regime bought itself a lease on life when it sought and obtained the patronage of Putin. Assad sleeps better these days.

With Senile Joe there is this panicky sense of "sauve qui peut" spreading
Last edited by Juin on 15 Aug 2021 18:36, edited 2 times in total.
#15185585
Juin wrote:
These whole Afghan debacle got me thinking a bit on what makes a military alliance potent. Is it just it brute force and striking powet? Are there other intangibles that come into play? Are intangibles like determination, credibility often undervalued in favour of tangibles like tanks, ships, fighter jets?

We have seen far too often in history how smaller rising powers have challenged, and dominated powerful alliances that on paper dwarfed them?

A military alliance is like a wolf pack. The pack does not run itself as a democracy. There is always a leader, which leader sets the pace, and the pack follows without hesitation. The pack leader cannot falter. The pack leader cannot create, or allow doubt in his leadership and determination. The striking power of the pack depends on its ability to strike as a whole. The moment the internal cohesion in the pack erodes, it is the death of the pack.

That is why this Afghan debacle is so disturbing. It has created doubt in the determination of the leader of the pack. His commitment to the pack has been placed into question by the grim, turbaned jihadists. Members of the pack are mumbling whether the pack will be there for them if or when under attack.

That is the psychological damage of the debacle.

A pack leader - and the US is the pack leader in many alliances- ignores those intangibles at its peril.

Bring up Russia.

Da bear is often dismissed as a has been because its GDP is on the level of that of Texas. But the intangibles are missing, in my opinion. One has to ask; who is much more likely to credibly deliver: Scowling Putin or Senile Biden?

Putin can deliver, and has delivered. Syria is a case in point. The Assad regime bought itself a lease on life when it sought and obtained the patronage of Putin. Assad sleeps better these days.

With Senile Joe there is this panicky sense of "sauve qui peut" spreading



Thanks for the laugh, I had a feeling when I started reading your babbling that the point would be how wonderful Putin is...

Historically, the guy that spends the most usually wins...

You are confusing traditional war with assymmetrical conflict. Insurgencies have more skin in the game than occupiers, all they have to do is survive and eventually the foreigners will get tired of it.

Putin has a problem, he desperately needs the money he gets from NATO countries. He's in financial trouble already, cutting off his best customers would be crazy. And while Putin is psychotic, he ain't demented...

He can make a few small moves, but he can't afford (in either sense of the word) to do the things he wants; like put the USSR back together.
#15185588
Rancid wrote:Remove who? TRump/REpublicans were anti-war and anti-staying there just a few months ago.


Trump had a May deadline and a proper plan to get out in the agreement with the Taliban. Biden reneged on the May exit date.





American Taxpayers essentially payed, and all you got for it is a Taliban armed to the teeth with US weapons and equipment.
Last edited by colliric on 15 Aug 2021 18:19, edited 1 time in total.
#15185589
Taliban officials: there will be no transitional government in Afghanistan
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 021-08-15/

Evidently they're taking control instantly. There's a video of them eating lunch at the kabul presidential palace, bottled water and rations amongs gilded sofas and fancy furnishings. Damn I lost it.
#15185590
This is both a success and failure for the US.

Success:
Allowed the creation of an intelligence network and military infrastructure in the region to finally get Bin Laden. With the tech advances in the last 20 years, this sort of adventure isn't needed as much to track down a single terrorist. DRones, AI, etc. can help do all of that remotely now. It was also a success financially, as many people made lots of money. I had a neighbor that would travel there often to make deals and contracts.

Failure:
The pretense of going in there to build a nation, and to have it as a beacon of freedom in the region that could help stop Islamic extremism. Total failure there. HOWEVER, many would argue that the US never cared to do this. This was merely the pretext to sell to the public. The US probably should have just pulled out immediately after Bin Laden was killed and let it all fall apart then... then again, there was still more money to be made. In some way, you could say, this is not a failure, other than the failure to meet up to the pretense that was setup. When does that ever actually happen though?

The reality here for the public (not government) is that we have accept brutal regimes whether we like it or not. We have to accept that eliminating human rights abuses, child sex trafficking, etc. etc. is basically an impossible task. When we realize this, it will become harder for governments to sell us lies in order to get into another profit making racket.... that said, we won't learn that lesson.

colliric wrote:Trump had a May deadline and a proper plan to get out in the agreement with the Taliban. Biden reneged on the May exit date.


No plan on earth would work without boots on the ground to actually enforce it. This was a house of cards, no way to hold it up.

You're full of it.

"If Trump/Republicans were there, it would be different." :lol: :lol: :lol:

It went this long because it was a political hot potato. NO one wanted to rip off the scab that had to be ripped and deal with the political consequences. IN a sense, it's good that its biden since he's at the twilight of his career anyway. If it were a younger president, they probably wouldn't be willing to do this. Same would be with TRump given he's old too. It's funny, the solution to pulling out was to elect a really old president (Trump or Biden, doesn't matter).
Last edited by Rancid on 15 Aug 2021 18:23, edited 2 times in total.
#15185593
Rancid wrote:Allowed the creation of an intelligence network and military infrastructure in the region to finally get Bin Laden. With the tech advances in the last 20 years, this sort of adventure isn't needed as much to track down a single terrorist. DRones, AI, etc. can help do all of that remotely now. It was also a success financially, as many people made lots of money. I had a neighbor that would travel there often to make deals and contracts.


You realise that Military infrastructure is now almost entirely in the hands of the Taliban right? And everything else is going to Iran(where the Afghan government forces retreated to!).





It's not a success if you leave it there and it gets in the hands of your enemies.

It's an embarrassment.

Can't you Biden Cultists take a defeat gracefully???
Last edited by colliric on 15 Aug 2021 18:26, edited 1 time in total.
#15185594
colliric wrote:You realise that Military infrastructure is now almost entirely in the hands of the Taliban right? And everything else is going to Iran(where the Afghan government forces retreated to!).


The US took the important bits and high tech bits. Everything else, is ok to leave to them. Again, the US doesn't care about them anyway.

It can all go to Iran as well, will give the US a good excuse to fight Iran later on down the road ($$$). One way or another, Iran was going to benefit. It was part of the calculus, I'm sure. WOuld give the US an excuse to sell more stuff to Israel even.

War = MONEY!


The only people that have egg on their face, is the American public that bought into this, and all the families that sent their kids to die there. Republicans/DEmocrats don't really care, other than to figure out how to use this as political ammo against each other. Round and round we go.
#15185596
colliric wrote:.




It also speaks volumes as to how adversaries act based on their perception of the determination and credibility of the leadership of the other side. If the drawdown had already taken place under Trump, that bodes even worse for Senile Joe. Trump could drawdown all he wanted, that did not tempt the Taliban to move at all. The dour, glowering men of the Taliban in all likelihood sensed that Trump was mad enough to change course and come roaring back in with devastating air strikes; as you pointed out in another post.

In the end it may not be about the size of the drawdown; but rather whether Senile Joe was ever in a position to convey to the Taliban that American fury was always ready to return with devastating consequences on them.

It is all about credibility.

And it is nothing new. That is why I love history. Nothing new under the sun. Take the phrase, drawing a line in the sad. Some ascribe it to an encounter in 168BC between the Roman Consul Gaius Popillius Laenas and Antiochus IV of the Seleucid empire. When Antiochus won't give a clear answer the Consul drew a line in the sand around him. The Consul had no Army with him, yet Antiochus got the message: as sure as the sun shone he was in no doubts that the Consul would return with an Army.

The Taliban took one look at Senile Joe and correctly estimated that he had no balls. Senile Joe was on the run. Why not accelerate his departure?
#15185598
When I was a younger man and saw 9-11 happen, I cursed and swore as I saw America drawn into an ''Elephant Trap'' by it's own Post-Cold War Hubris. I was mocked. I was called all manner of names. I was made to feel ashamed of my thoughts and feelings by the same sort of people who are running around not getting vaccinated and not wearing masks during a pandemic, a plague. I was friends with people who were in the US military who couldn't find the lands they were going to on a map nor knew anything about Islam-no lie-but who longed to kill those ''rag heads in Iraq who brought down the Twin Towers. ''....

I'm very angry and sad today. I have this urge to find every son of a bitch who called me a traitor for saying that this very day would inevitably come, and beat the living shit out of them. But what good would that do?

For all they were going to do was to stir up the hornet's nest, empower militant Islam, and permanently break the geopolitical order,so that in the future, their grandchildren might well pray facing Mecca five times a day. Because I saw that too, back then.

Nobody likes a Cassandra, a Prophet St. Jeremiah, I know.
#15185600
colliric wrote:Trump had a May deadline and a proper plan to get out in the agreement with the Taliban. Biden reneged on the May exit date.


Sometimes I wonder whether you believe the shit you write. US troops have been sent back in to get US citizens out. They would have been there if Trump was in power too.

If you want to know why this is such a shitshow, it is because of TRUMPS DEAL! Biden just continued Trumps policy. You can only criticise that if you wanted US troops in Afghanistan indefinitely. However you are right to show that US equipment falling into the Talibans hands is an embarrassment. But the same was the case when the US also basically funded ISIS as well when they took swathes of Iraq. Hopefully twice bitten three times shy.
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