[Igor Antunov]

@Igor Antunov , the CCP model could also be compared to the German General Staff from 1870-1918. Wouldn't you agree?

That was a kind of military Junta right? Then not really. China's politburo is comprised of politically groomed engineers and scientists.

Anyway, the dramatic interventionism continues:

China tells Alibaba, Tencent to open platforms up to each other

China's industry ministry has told technology companies including Alibaba Group Ltd and Tencent Holdings Ltd to stop blocking each other's website links from their platforms

https://www.reuters.com/technology/chin ... reddit.com

[annatar1914]

@Igor Antunov ;

That was a kind of military Junta right? Then not really. China's politburo is comprised of politically groomed engineers and scientists.

The German General Staff was composed of what might be called ''Military Scientists'', students of the science of War. Vladimir Lenin basically stood their Guru, Carl von Clauswitz , on his ear by teaching ''Politics is the continuation of War by other means'' instead of Von Clauswitz's famous phrase. So the CCP might be said, as Marxist-Leninists, to be a group of students of socio-economic and political warfare, students of conflict and contradiction.

[Igor Antunov]

@Igor Antunov ;

The German General Staff was composed of what might be called ''Military Scientists'', students of the science of War. Vladimir Lenin basically stood their Guru, Carl von Clauswitz , on his ear by teaching ''Politics is the continuation of War by other means'' instead of Von Clauswitz's famous phrase. So the CCP might be said, as Marxist-Leninists, to be a group of students of socio-economic and political warfare, students of conflict and contradiction.

You could apply that to any left or right wing political party on earth.

[annatar1914]

You could apply that to any left or right wing political party on earth.

@Igor Antunov ;

Possibly. In the Modernity, all Moderns are Political, and all Politics is Leninism, perhaps.

[Potemkin]

You could apply that to any left or right wing political party on earth.

Only after Lenin, @Igor Antunov. Lenin proclaimed in the middle of the First World War: "The time has come to convert the imperialist war into a civil war!" Politics is the continuation of war by other means. This was a new insight. Just as Marx had turned Hegel on his head, Lenin turned von Clausewitz on his head, with similarly spectacular results.

[AFAIK]

They've stopped promoting officials with a spouse living overseas because of the strong correlation with corruption. There's so much public anger about corruption and inequality that the rich can't flaunt their wealth anymore. They'll even cover up their wealth by changing the badge on their car to make it look like it has a smaller engine.

[Rugoz]

A key mistake is to equate China's system with the USSR or many other highly (in their later years) dysfunctional socialist states. It's simply not the same. China's socioeconomic success post reform is a blindingly obvious testament to that. It's very grounded in meritocracy and runs like a company. The CEO is absolutely not going to tolerate mediocrity on the board of directors and they in turn will not tolerate mediocrity in the CEO. Xi is not a dictator, and his underlings are not reliant on him to stay in power.

Silly.

Companies are subject to competition and controlled by shareholders seeking profit. That's generally speaking the only reason they are more or less meritocratic and don't become rent-seeking bloated inefficient bureaucracies.

[AFAIK]

Corporations buy politicians and instruct them to pass laws that allow them to dominate markets, extract wealth from others and seek rent. Even when a billionaire takes off their business hat and pretends to be a philanthropist they'll still insist on maintaining monopolies on life saving medicines, i.e. act like Bill Gates.

In China the gov't owns the banks. In USA the banks own the gov't.
Which is better? Let's read newspapers owned by billionaires to find out!

[Rugoz]

Corporations buy politicians and instruct them to pass laws that allow them to dominate markets, extract wealth from others and seek rent. Even when a billionaire takes off their business hat and pretends to be a philanthropist they'll still insist on maintaining monopolies on life saving medicines, i.e. act like Bill Gates.

In China the gov't owns the banks. In USA the banks own the gov't.
Which is better? Let's read newspapers owned by billionaires to find out!

Stupid and lame attempt at distraction. It's not even true for the US and nobody was talking about the US in the first place.

It was about how the CCP equals corporations in organization.

[AFAIK]

Perhaps you could post more than 144 characters at a time and other posters would have a chance of following your arguments.

[Rancid]

Once again I'm seeing just more of the China = Socialist therefore China = Venezuela. It's a completely different power structure. Doubly so because given its massive demographic scale the positive results are even more profound. Everybody just assumes Xi is massively corrupt because corruption is an institution in the west and China bad so must be even worse there. Eh, no.

It's more like, humans will be humans. The CCP is made up of humans. That's the constant that makes "but this time it's different" naive.

This type of behavior (fake corruption drives) happens everywhere on the planet, not just in governments and companies, but even within families. The places it tends to be worse is where power is concentrated in fewer people. BTW, there are decades of research to back this up, i'm not just speculating or making this up.

A dis-aggregated power structure tends to have this happen less, but at the same time a dis-aggregated power structure leads to other types of inefficiencies/indecision/churn/problems which makes it easier to exploit externally (say corporations or foreign governments).

[JohnRawls]

A key mistake is to equate China's system with the USSR or many other highly (in their later years) dysfunctional socialist states. It's simply not the same. China's socioeconomic success post reform is a blindingly obvious testament to that. It's very grounded in meritocracy and runs like a company. The CEO is absolutely not going to tolerate mediocrity on the board of directors and they in turn will not tolerate mediocrity in the CEO. Xi is not a dictator, and his underlings are not reliant on him to stay in power.



Once again I'm seeing just more of the China = Socialist therefore China = Venezuela. It's a completely different power structure. Doubly so because given its massive demographic scale the positive results are even more profound. Everybody just assumes Xi is massively corrupt because corruption is an institution in the west and China bad so must be even worse there. Eh, no.

CCP still uses parts of the socialist model for example the CCP itself is a marxist-leninst party structure. I do criticize specific elements. I mean it is redicilous to think that the same system implemented in China would somehow function differently compared to the identical implementation in the USSR or other states. Especially considering it is a known quantity and quality over a large sample of countries.

I have posted this song in TLDR but it is applicable here(Put English subtitles):

[Igor Antunov]

It's more like, humans will be humans. The CCP is made up of humans. That's the constant that makes "but this time it's different" naive.

This type of behavior (fake corruption drives) happens everywhere on the planet, not just in governments and companies, but even within families. The places it tends to be worse is where power is concentrated in fewer people. BTW, there are decades of research to back this up, i'm not just speculating or making this up.

A dis-aggregated power structure tends to have this happen less, but at the same time a dis-aggregated power structure leads to other types of inefficiencies/indecision/churn/problems which makes it easier to exploit externally (say corporations or foreign governments).

Different humans have different qualities. China manages to congregate decent humans with decent skills into key leadership positions. USA has no shortage of decent highly skilled humans, but good luck getting them to positions of real power in that country. All leaderships are thus not built the same.
US system encourages too many greedy self enriching cunts into power who earn no consequences for their actions.

[Patrickov]

China manages to congregate decent humans with decent skills into key leadership positions.

If the likes of Luo Huining, Carrie Lam, Li Ka-Chiu, Tang Ping-Keung, Tam Yiu-Chung, etc. are considered congregate decent humans, I dare to say the human race is rotten beyond salvation.

[late]

Companies.. don't become rent-seeking bloated inefficient bureaucracies.

Many do.

But don't stop, that was worth a chuckle.

[Patrickov]

Many do.

... and get eliminated into obscurity. He forgot to state that.

[Rancid]

Different humans have different qualities. China manages to congregate decent humans with decent skills into key leadership positions. USA has no shortage of decent highly skilled humans, but good luck getting them to positions of real power in that country. All leaderships are thus not built the same.
US system encourages too many greedy self enriching cunts into power who earn no consequences for their actions.

"but this time it's different"

[late]

... and get eliminated into obscurity. He forgot to state that.

Not here.

https://www.amazon.com/Price-Inequality-Divided-Society-Endangers/dp/0393345068/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2FFIEFS7YZ8EB&dchild=1&keywords=price+of+inequality+stiglitz&qid=1631540648&sprefix=price+of+inequality%2Caps%2C197&sr=8-2

[Patrickov]

Not here.

https://www.amazon.com/Price-Inequality-Divided-Society-Endangers/dp/0393345068/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2FFIEFS7YZ8EB&dchild=1&keywords=price+of+inequality+stiglitz&qid=1631540648&sprefix=price+of+inequality%2Caps%2C197&sr=8-2

As you said, many, not all.

Rotten governments or nations, on the other hand, are far harder to overthrow, mainly because there are far fewer such entities than companies.

[Rugoz]

Many do.

But don't stop, that was worth a chuckle.

All you did was cut out the middle of that sentence to set up a straw man.

Fuck off.