[Potemkin]

I wonder if that's what BoJo's actually working on with delivering a "raw" Brexit, or is the UK government really that incompetent?

The UK government really is that incompetent. Next question?

[Heisenberg]

I wonder if that's what BoJo's actually working on with delivering a "raw" Brexit, or is the UK government really that incompetent?

Oh, the UK government is most definitely that incompetent. Boris Johnson, Dominic Raab, Gavin Williamson, Matt Hancock, Liz Truss and Priti Patel aren't exactly what I'd call a formidable bunch.

[noemon]

The real lesson of this week’s chaos? There’s no one left to vote for

What with all the talk of lights going out, a three-day week and a Winter of Discontent, many people seem worried that we’re going back to the Seventies. But I really don’t think we are. After all, in the Seventies, people were at least still able to drive their cars. This is going to be more like the 1870s, with everyone having to travel everywhere by horse. Until, of course, we run out of grass to feed our horses with, thanks to an outbreak of panic mowing.

At any rate, our immediate future doesn’t exactly look dazzling. Fist-fights are breaking out at petrol pumps. In Scotland, the threat to Irn-Bru supplies now practically guarantees a vote for independence, if not a full-blown re-run of Bannockburn. And on Tuesday, in response to empty shelves in supermarkets, The Sun ran a full-page article urging its readers to eat mouldy food (“Don’t despair – not all mouldy grub is inedible!”). Next week: exclusive recipes for rat madras and squirrel stew.

Still, we aren’t quite back in the Seventies yet. Except in one sense. We have a Government whose response to crisis seems to be: “Crisis? What crisis?”

For days on end, as chaos reigned, we heard not a peep from ministers. You’d think the PM would at least have held a news conference so he could allay the nation’s fears and call for calm. Yet it wasn’t until Tuesday afternoon that he finally surfaced, and even then only to dash off a 90-second video clip for Twitter.


Supposedly, he and his ministers declined to go on TV or radio because it’s traditional for politicians to keep a low profile during a rival party’s conference. But surely to goodness that convention can be waived during a national emergency? Imagine if Chamberlain had taken that approach in September 1939.

“...No such undertaking has been received, and consequently this country is at war with Germany. However, as this is the time of year during which the Labour Party traditionally meets for its party conference, the Government will be making no further comment this week, so cheerio for now. Best of luck dodging those doodlebugs, and hope to see most of you next week!”

Of course, ministers may resent the criticism they’ve received. They may even be tempted to blame the panic-buying on the public. Then again, if they did that, the public – also known as “the voters” – might not take it tremendously well. In 2010, the Conservatives won by pledging to clear up the mess Labour left behind. But I’m not sure they should go into the next election pledging to clear up the mess the public left behind (“Vote Conservative – Because You Poor Dopes Simply Can’t Be Trusted to Look After Yourselves.”).

Whatever the initial cause of the panic, the Government has handled it poorly. But there has been one source of comfort for ministers. However hopeless they look, the Opposition looks even worse.

This week, Labour has had scarcely more to say about petrol than the Government has – because its members have been far more interested in attacking each other. At Left-wing rallies, the “Blairite” party leadership was furiously denounced. And, during his climactic speech, Sir Keir Starmer was relentlessly heckled – even while talking about the death of his mother. All week, it felt as if Brighton was simultaneously hosting a Labour conference and an anti-Labour conference.

The highlight of the in-fighting came when Andy McDonald, a senior Corbynite, quit the shadow cabinet over Sir Keir’s refusal to pledge a minimum wage of £15 an hour. Less than two years earlier, Mr McDonald had been elected on a pledge of £10 an hour – set by Labour’s then leader, Jeremy Corbyn. John McDonnell, Mr Corbyn’s closest ally, praised Mr McDonald for quitting “on a point of principle”. This is the same John McDonnell who was still calling for £10 an hour in October last year, as a “reward” for British workers. Yet now, all of a sudden, £10 an hour wasn’t a reward but an insult.

Sir Keir could always relent. But it wouldn’t do him any good. Because then it would suddenly turn out that £15 an hour is an insult to British workers, and the Left wants £20.

Still, enough doom and gloom. Let’s remember: we still have one reason to be cheerful. There isn’t an election coming up. Which is a relief, because right now, it feels as if the main lesson of this week’s chaos is that there’s no one left to vote for.

Mind you, there is another way of looking at things. A (non-political) friend of mine has a theory that the petrol shortage was deliberately engineered by the Government – as an alternative to another lockdown. If ministers ordered us to stay at home again, millions would probably disobey. So they’ve ensured we can’t actually leave home, instead.

Of course, such a plan would require imagination, strategic planning and organisational competence. So it clearly can’t be true.

[Potemkin]

Mind you, there is another way of looking at things. A (non-political) friend of mine has a theory that the petrol shortage was deliberately engineered by the Government – as an alternative to another lockdown. If ministers ordered us to stay at home again, millions would probably disobey. So they’ve ensured we can’t actually leave home, instead.

Of course, such a plan would require imagination, strategic planning and organisational competence. So it clearly can’t be true.

[Beren]

The UK government really is that incompetent. Next question?

Oh, the UK government is most definitely that incompetent. Boris Johnson, Dominic Raab, Gavin Williamson, Matt Hancock, Liz Truss and Priti Patel aren't exactly what I'd call a formidable bunch.

So no conspiracy here.

Sorry, guys, I forgot who the UK government are.

[B0ycey]

The real lesson of this week’s chaos? There’s no one left to vote for

It is difficult to give the entire blame for the Petrol Crisis (which isn't a crisis near me any more) on the government when you can also blame the media for this as well given they caused the storm, but this is the fundamental issue isn't it. It seems every year that a crisis is greater than the previous year by a specific magnitude and yet during the time the whole world seems a sneeze away from crumbling on its own waste this guy...



..leads the UK at these dark times. And the reason? What alternative is there? Starmer who get boo'd at his own conference? Davey who is about as appealing as a snotty hanky? The muppets that are Raab, Hancocks or Williams? Perhaps I can see hope. Others might not but I do. But we won't be lead the right path but more stumble upon it. And I only hope Labour gets the right leader in after Starmer. Otherwise its going to be a long time with the UK in the international quagmire.

[Beren]

What alternative is there?

There won't be the right people until the situation's right. In Hungary, for example, there weren't any alternatives to Orbán, now there's one or two.

However, since he's a successful chameleon, or even a shapeshifter, BoJo perhaps could be that person after a cabinet reshuffle following the crisis. He could start some serious governing then, if he's able to. As the article says, it gives some hope that there won't be an election soon.

[Potemkin]

There won't be the right people until the situation's right. In Hungary, for example, there weren't any alternatives to Orbán, now there's one or two.

However, since he's a successful chameleon, or even a shapeshifter, BoJo perhaps could be that person after a cabinet reshuffle following the crisis. He could start some serious governing then, if he's able to. As the article says, it gives some hope that there won't be an election soon.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man....

[Beren]

Cometh the hour, cometh the man....

Exactly.

[B0ycey]

There won't be the right people until the situation's right.

What if the people are the reason the situation isn't right?

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily disagree with your post - although BoJo had that reshuffle and no amount of shape-shifting is going to improve his image abroad. However to me this petrol crisis or even the potential empty shelves at Christmas are not what is wrong with the UK right now. Nor do I think Brexit is going to take us to third world status or inflation was down to a shortage of drivers, that wages increases are a problem nor the other bollocks John Rawls writes on his troll sessions of irrelevance. I think the problem is that the UK isn't taken seriously anymore. And not just from France or Germany or Russia or China or the EU. But even by America. BoJo does all the wagging he can and one call from Macron and Biden then says no trade deal so all that AUKUS rubbish was for nothing it seems. We don't have the leverage that we had in the EU and yet we act that we do. And that is because our leaders think that we are still a superpower who can decide our own fate and that everyone wants to trade with us. But trade isn't necessarily good if free in any case given it can effect home markets and what we should be doing instead is building bridges. You can't do that under a Conservative government and you can't get the Tories out if there isn't a personality who can win an election. But there are personalities that may well win an election. They do exist. And they exist under these circumstances. But to get them into power the dead wood need to vacate first. If you cannot win over your own membership, they what hope do you have with winning an election?

[JohnRawls]

[Beren]

I think the problem is that the UK isn't taken seriously anymore.

Is this something new indeed? Was the UK taken seriously in Tehran or Jalta, for example? Did the UK really matter in the Cold War? Or how could they have been taken seriously following Suez? They weren't considered a joke perhaps, in which Brexit seems to bring some change indeed, and now they also don't have a say in Europe. There's only one country from Europe that's taken seriously on the world stage, namely Germany, even the EU as a trading superpower is basically their economic power projection, however, as a military power they're virtually non-existent. France is also the same as the UK and can be humiliated anytime, as we can see recently, although they still have some leverage on Europe at least. The rest obviously wouldn't be worth mentioning.

But there are personalities that may well win an election.

An election can be won only in case the tide turns, then there'll be personalities as well. Then there'll be a Labour leader with real potential, for example, but the tide is the base and the personalities are the superstructure.

[B0ycey]

Is this something new indeed? Was the UK taken seriously in Tehran or Jalta, for example? Did the UK really matter in the Cold War? Or how could they have been taken seriously following Suez?

I would say they were taken more seriously than Germany even back then which I only mention now given you say Germany are the only EU nation to be taken seriously today. And of course they have their seat on the security council. But given you mention Suez, I can only really assume you mean America. The truth is you aren't entirely wrong. Perhaps once the empire fell, the UK has never been taken seriously like it did then because it doesn't pose a threat anymore. And maybe only superpowers really are taken seriously if that is the criteria. But even so they were respected by the world and at least taken seriously on many levels away from politics. Today I don't see that. And I don't see that because we have burnt bridges.

[Beren]

I would say they were taken more seriously than Germany even back then which I only mention now given you say Germany are the only EU nation to be taken seriously today.

West Germany began being taken seriously again in the 80's perhaps and they started to overtake Britain as soon as Germany reunited in 1990 and the EU was established in 1992.

And of course they have their seat on the security council.

So what? In most cases they follow the US, of course.

And maybe only superpowers really are taken seriously

Iran is taken seriously, although it's not a superpower, India's also getting taken seriously. Russia's taken seriously again as well. China has also been taken seriously for a while and had been taken seriously in the Cold War. Superpower status is not necessary for that, being serious is.

[B0ycey]

An election can be won only in case the tide turns, then there'll be personalities as well. Then there'll be a Labour leader with real potential, for example, but the tide is the base and the personalities are the superstructure.

I have given this some thought given you mention Dia-Mat. The personalities are the wave surely? They have to be. The UK is no different today than before Brexit. The only difference is the polarisation. This is driven by social media and represented in interpretation by the figureheads. BoJo is Brexit so despite being a clown he still gets elected because that vote never split. Starmer is a Blairite and so gets heckled at his own conference, not because of anything he has done, but because he is associated with Blair. Davey, the Lib Dem, Clegg, the person who turned blue. So the voters associate people by their personalities to a common purpose. They only way to break that finding a personality that isn't (or doesn't hold) linked to baggage.

[B0ycey]

Iran is taken seriously, although it's not a superpower, India's also getting taken seriously.

Sure, with their sanctions they are taken seriously. Perhaps because they don't want them to hold nuclear weapons. Although when the oil drys out, they will be taken seriously like any other desert mountainous region. India, well they are an emerging market. So only on an economic sense. But the same could be said for the UK and France. Nobody would listen to Modi away from trade. And sure, the UK follow the US lead. Perhaps that is why nobody does take them seriously. Or not from the non Western POV. They are merely an extention to the US. But when I talk about the UK not being taken seriously, I wasn't really talking about rouge states but allies in any case.

[Rugoz]

I would say they were taken more seriously than Germany even back then which I only mention now given you say Germany are the only EU nation to be taken seriously today.

Eh...German politics is silly in its own way.

[B0ycey]

Eh...German politics is silly in its own way.

Why?

[Beren]

The personalities are the wave surely? They have to be.

Personalities are only surfers riding the wave, which is public opinion, which they utilise for their own benefit rather than actually influencing.

Why?

Because it's politics, I guess.

[B0ycey]

Personalities are only surfers riding the wave, which is public opinion, which they utilise for their own benefit rather than actually influencing.

Perhaps. Then what I really mean is that we haven't a personality to vote for given the choices represent negative things. But there are personalities in parliament now that represent other things that would fix the UK but they aren't in power.