Petrol Stations closed in the UK-Military to be drafted to deliver fuel - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15191959
Independent wrote:Some of the UK’s biggest petrol station operators have warned of a shortage of fuel at the forecourt, risking widespread disruption for UK drivers.

BP has already been forced to close a number of stations after supply was hit by a lack of HGV drivers to deliver fuel, while ExxonMobil said a “small number” its Esso petrol forecourts have also been affected.

The supply issues, which are believed to have struck dozens of petrol stations, come as Hoyer, one of the UK’s largest fuel logistics companies revealed it is struggling to meet deliveries for a host of clients including BP, Esso and Shell due to driver shortages.

BP‘s head of UK retail, Hanna Hofer, described the situation as “bad, very bad” and warned the government it was important they grasp the “urgency of the situation”. Ms Hofer said the company had “two-thirds of normal forecourt stock levels required for smooth operations” and told ITV News the level is “declining rapidly”.

Under emergency plans, BP will provide 80 per cent of its normal service levels to nine in 10 of its petrol stations, meaning that a range of locations will not be restocked for one and a half days each week.

Motorways will be prioritised and restocked as normal. Ms Hofer added that the next few weeks will be “really difficult”, but that fuel stocks should stabilise and start to rebuild at some point in October.

Labour’s Jim McMahon, the party’s shadow transport secretary, described the situation as a “rapidly worsening crisis” which the government had “failed to heed the warnings of for a decade”.

He said: “Sticking plaster solutions are not going to solve it. Ministers must take decisive steps now to tackle the 90,000-driver shortfall. If they fail to take action, the responsibility for every empty shelf, every vital medicine not delivered and every supplier not able to meet demand lies at the Conservatives’ door.”

When asked about the prospects of Britons “panic buying” fuel, a government spokesman said: “there is no shortage in fuel in the UK so people should continue to buy it as usual”.

They added: “We recognise the challenges facing industry and have already taken action to increase the supply of HGV drivers, including streamlining the process for new drivers and increasing the number of driving tests.”

“We continue to closely monitor labour supply and work with sector leaders to understand how we can best ease particular pinch points.”

Despite the government’s insistence that there is no shortage of fuel, the problem of logistics facing the petrol industry show signs of becoming more acute.

There have been closures of petrol stations as far apart as Aberdeen, the Isle of Wight and the Southeast of England in recent months all signaling the strain on delivery schedules. Drivers often make as many as four deliveries to petrol stations per day.

As Hoyer is one of the largest companies specialising in fuel distribution, its problems indicate that pressure will mount yet further on other businesses offering the same services within the sector, according to a source with knowledge of fuel distribution.

The widespread shortage of HGV drivers which support UK supply chains has been at the top of industry bodies’ concerns in recent months, from food to fuel. With test centres shut and many HGV drivers from the EU returning home during the pandemic, it has created a shortage of qualified drivers. The problem has already caused visible disruption at supermarkets.

Several of the UK’s largest businesses and industry bodies have requested that government relax visa requirements to help ease the specialist labour shortfall.

Calls from Morrisons and Ocado for the Government to add HGV drivers to its skills shortage jobs list, to allow EU workers to fill the shortfall, were investigated but not implemented following pressure from the Home Office. BP is understood to have asked the Government for similar support on a temporary basis.

Gordon Balmer, an executive director at the Petrol Retailers Association, which represents independent forecourts across the UK, said some sites are suffering from delays, particularly those in London and south-east England.


Nandos have been forced to close 1/3 of their restaurants due to a combined lack of chicken and staff.

Military to be drafted to help: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 26143.html

The enormous shortage in drivers is due to the fact that many(around 80k) European drivers and lorry companies no longer deliver to the UK due to the Brexit bureaucracy required to cross the border and the money they have to pay upfront to insure their cargo.
#15191974
Another Tory fuck up. Whether it will be enough to do this now I don't know. But HGV drivers should have been on the critical job list four months ago and visas in this field should be handed out like candy to a baby back then too. If this government doesn't act yesterday, then Christmas will be known as "The Winter of Empty Shelves" I can assure you. I don't mind the rhetoric that these jobs should goto British Workers and that businesses should train people up (especially given furlough is about to end and we should see a jump in unemployment), but training takes time and this is a problem now so you have to ACT NOW. Worry about training people in fucking January! I am glad someone posted this topic actually because it is annoying me greatly that nobody in the UK government can't see the shit storm three months down the line and seem more focused on yet another defense pact. >:
#15192103
noemon wrote:Nandos have been forced to close 1/3 of their restaurants due to a combined lack of chicken and staff.

Military to be drafted to help: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 26143.html

The enormous shortage in drivers is due to the fact that many(around 80k) European drivers and lorry companies no longer deliver to the UK due to the Brexit bureaucracy required to cross the border and the money they have to pay upfront to insure their cargo.

It is awfully nice of UK to provide economic growth for the EU at the expense of its own prosperity. The more massive problem is that EU gets to trade with no checks while UK goods are checked and follow the procedures, well for the UK that is. EU is not even trying but UK is intent on decimating its own goods sectors. Not that UK can implement those checks without more staff in general and more drivers specifically.
#15192107
JohnRawls wrote:It is awfully nice of UK to provide economic growth for the EU at the expense of its own prosperity. The more massive problem is that EU gets to trade with no checks while UK goods are checked and follow the procedures, well for the UK that is. EU is not even trying but UK is intent on decimating its own goods sectors. Not that UK can implement those checks without more staff in general and more drivers specifically.

You should never underestimate the self-destructive tendencies of British right-wingers. These, after all, are the people who gave us Thatcherism, which destroyed British industry, and who gave us Brexit, which is now destroying British trade. What jolly wheeze will they come up with next…? :roll:
#15192136
Wow. This government really can't grasp the seriousness of the problem.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58687026

So they are going to ease visa restrictions but cap it to 5000. And that means we are planning on masking the problem with 5% of the people needed which won't work. I doubt we would attracted the 100,000 people we are short, but if you are talking about caps it should be as high as 80,000 anyway given petrol shortages is merely the tip of the iceberg. What happens when everyone is buying presents and food for Christmas. Is there enough drivers to fill in the void? My guess is most definitely not. And a cap so low is an insult that our government have any clue of the shitfest we can expect in December when it will be too late to do anything about it.
#15192137
B0ycey wrote:But HGV drivers should have been on the critical job list four months ago and visas in this field should be handed out like candy to a baby back then too.


How much do HGV drivers make?

Apparently some got a 40% pay rise recently:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cov ... e-58409277

I don't think that will convince blue collar workers of the failure of Brexit.
#15192140
Rugoz wrote:How much do HGV drivers make?

Apparently some got a 40% pay rise recently:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cov ... e-58409277

I don't think that will convince blue collar workers of the failure of Brexit.


No idea. Although I suspect they are very very well paid now. Which means they should entice some European workers back to the UK I guess.

And sure, some of the Blue Collar idiots won't be convinced of the impact of Brexit because for some people Brexit is about other things away from supply issues. And this issue isn't solely down to Brexit in any case but clearly Brexit is having an impact. The problem is down to changing habits after a pandemic (everything moving online) along with there already being a shortage of drivers pre Brexit. And now it is about the job being unappealing due to the long hours and being away from home whilst also being very high demand now. Which means you need to start training people up ASAP to at least ease the hours for those who want a life off the road to be frank. Free courses for those unemployed would help. And visas until the problem eases in another thing you can do. But 5000 drivers cap??? What the fuck is that?
#15192141
Potemkin wrote:What jolly wheeze will they come up with next…? :roll:

War with East Asia perhaps (AUKUS), but Eurasia will always be only an English Channel away for some nice conflict.

Rugoz wrote:I don't think that will convince blue collar workers of the failure of Brexit.

How about rising fuel prices and inflation in general?

'Oh, wait, we can't all be well-paid HGV drivers! Fuck that shit!' :lol:
#15192142
Beren wrote:How about rising fuel prices and inflation in general?

'Oh, wait, we can't all be well-paid HGV drivers! Fuck that shit!' :lol:


Fair enough, it won't convince HGV drivers then.

But the stortage might be part of a general pattern, i.e. blue color work might be generally more in demand due to Brexit.

Inflation on the other hand affects everyone.

Your argument is of course the typical liberal argument against protectionism, but it ignores distributive effects.
#15192144
Rugoz wrote:Fair enough, it won't convince HGV drivers then.

But the stortage might be part of a general pattern, i.e. blue color work might be generally more in demand due to Brexit.

Inflation on the other hand affects everyone.

Your argument is of course the typical liberal argument against protectionism, but it ignores distributive effects.

Okay, then let's see two examples. What do you think would happen to the NHS or the UK budget if its workers got a 40% raise after they kick out foreigners? What do you think would happen to the British fruit and vegetable industry if its workers got a 40% raise after they kick out foreigners? Do you think everything would be fine and dandy or maybe something bad would happen (besides the usual inflation problems, of course)?
#15192145
Rugoz wrote:Fair enough, it won't convince HGV drivers then.

But the stortage might be part of a general pattern, i.e. blue color work might be generally more in demand due to Brexit.

Inflation on the other hand affects everyone.

Your argument is of course the typical liberal argument against protectionism, but it ignores distributive effects.


Salary growth is good but it is happening everywhere right now due to Covid. Well at least in countries with good economies. The major problem is inflation though. Your salary increase is irrelevant if the most basic goods go up in price the same amount basically. I don't even mention housing and so on which have historically outpaced salary growth due to the central bank policies and the financial sector.

Very simple version: HGV drivers salary will go up while the rest of the countries expenses will go up big time. That is not a fair trade for a society.
#15192147
If inflation went up by the same rate as wage increases, then inflation isn't a problem. In fact given the amount of borrowing we have just done along with the increase in income tax, it may even be a blessing. But 40% wage increases are only happening for HGV drivers in particular - but I believe wage increases have happened across the board due to labor shortages in general at 7%. Nonetheless wages are not the issue here and although inflation is a problem due to closing the economy down it isn't a problem because we are earning more and isn't a problem that only the UK face. In fact I would say this issue is more of an issue due to our Covid response rather than Brexit given HGV drivers are in demand globally right now. And don't get me started on gas prices which again comes down to Covid. But we had this discussion about a year and a half ago and I know Beren wasn't a Lockdownteer, but most of PoFo certainly was and this is basically what people were begging for when they basically wanted health above the economy. This problem has been created because we have moved to shopping logistically and this already high skilled job with a low labor supply has just seen a fight to get drivers for your company regardless of the costs.
#15192149
Beren wrote:Okay, then let's see two examples. What do you think would happen to the NHS or the UK budget if its workers got a 40% raise after they kick out foreigners? What do you think would happen to the British fruit and vegetable industry if its workers got a 40% raise after they kick out foreigners? Do you think everything would be fine and dandy or maybe something bad would happen (besides the usual inflation problems, of course)?


What matters is how the supply of one type of labor changes relative to the other. If you kick out foreigners equally in all industries that won't have any distributive effect, obviously. In the long term people will also change occupations to some degree.

JohnRawls wrote:Very simple version: HGV drivers salary will go up while the rest of the countries expenses will go up big time. That is not a fair trade for a society.


Pretty sure HGV drivers will disagree with that. :lol:
#15192152
B0ycey wrote:If inflation went up by the same rate as wage increases, then inflation isn't a problem. In fact given the amount of borrowing we have just done along with the increase in income tax, it may even be a blessing. But 40% wage increases are only happening for HGV drivers in particular - but I believe wage increases have happened across the board due to labor shortages in general at 7%. Nonetheless wages are not the issue here and although inflation is a problem due to closing the economy down it isn't a problem because we are earning more and isn't a problem that only the UK face. In fact I would say this issue is more of an issue due to our Covid response rather than Brexit given HGV drivers are in demand globally right now. And don't get me started on gas prices which again comes down to Covid. But we had this discussion about a year and a half ago and I know Beren wasn't a Lockdownteer, but most of PoFo certainly was and this is basically what people were begging for when they basically wanted health above the economy. This problem has been created because we have moved to shopping logistically and this already high skilled job with a low labor supply has just seen a fight to get drivers for your company regardless of the costs.


Average inflation is much higher in UK compared to Europe. There is also no shortage of deliveries and logistics in Europe compared to the UK. We all have Covid. The situation in UK can't be explained simply by Covid if the situation is better in Europe in this regard.

Now also explain the fact that UK had collosal collapse of economy compared to Europe GDP wise for example which it hasn't recovered from while most of Europe is already beyond the pre-pandemic economic levels. Take Estonia for example. We contracted 2.6-2.7 in 2020. We grew 5.4% percent in Q1 and 12.9% in Q2 with seasonal adjustments it was 4.3 and 13.9 percent. UK on the other hand contracted 9.8% in 2020 and contracted again Q1 2021 by 1.5% and only grew in Q2 2021 by 4.8% :knife:
#15192153
Rugoz wrote:What matters is how the supply of one type of labor changes relative to the other. If you kick out foreigners equally in all industries that won't have any distributive effect, obviously. In the long term people will also change occupations to some degree.



Pretty sure HGV drivers will disagree with that. :lol:


I am pretty sure they will but economy and society doesn't consist of only HGV drivers.
#15192155
@JohnRawls

In general there is shortages of HGV drivers throughout Europe, and this is only to do with petrol at the moment in any case in the UK. We will have more of an impact in the run up to Christmas. And inflation. The UK is much lower than the US and lower than Germany and pretty much on par with the EU in general. I know you have an erection everytime the UK is mentioned on PoFo and have a massive erection when it comes to Brexit which is why I think of you as a troll. But even so this has more to do with Covid because it isn't a problem solely down to the UK and that is just a fact. Also the UK is in growth. But I won't claim that we wouldn't be better off in the EU because we would have been better off in the EU. But I do claim that inflation today has little to do with Brexit and everything to do with gas prices and shortages as I said (so Covid), and that inflation isn't only a problem for the UK and in fact more of a problem for Germany at the moment given their industry relies on gas.
Last edited by B0ycey on 25 Sep 2021 14:25, edited 1 time in total.
#15192156
B0ycey wrote:@JohnRawls

In general there is shortages of HGV drivers throughout Europe, and this is only to do with petrol at the moment in any case in the UK. We will have more of an impact in the run up to Christmas. And inflation. The UK is much lower than the US and lower than Germany and pretty much on par with the EU in general. I know you have an erection everytime the UK is mentioned on PoFo and have a massive erection when it comes to Brexit which is why I think of you as a troll. But even so this has more to do with Covid because it isn't a problem solely down to the UK and that is just a fact. Also the UK is in growth. But I won't claim that we wouldn't be better off in the EU because we would have been better off in the EU. But I do claim that inflation today has little to do with Brexit and everything to do with gas prices and shortages given as I said (so Covid), and that inflation isn't only a problem for the UK and in fact is more of a problem for Germany at the moment.


You can hide behind Covid forever but it won't change the reality. I know that I have a massive boner lately when it comes to Brexit but it is simply because it is a situation of "I told you so".
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