David Starkey Absolutely OBLITERATES 'Religious Nutter' Greta Thunberg for Shaming England - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15195677
David Starkey Absolutely OBLITERATES 'Religious Nutter' Greta Thunberg for Shaming England




100% agreed. England invented the Liberal order.... its ok for 12 year old hate England, but its funny to read how the old latent Marxist attack The Liberal order everyday , LOL! from all East Europeans I want to say thank you England and USA for inventing and expending the Liberal order all over the globe ...

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#15195695
litwin wrote:David Starkey Absolutely OBLITERATES 'Religious Nutter' Greta Thunberg for Shaming England




100% agreed. England invented the Liberal order.... its ok for 12 year old hate England, but its funny to read how the old latent Marxist attack The Liberal order everyday , LOL! from all East Europeans I want to say thank you England and USA for inventing and expending the Liberal order all over the globe ...

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Competence straw men babble with out meaning, rationally or merit.

Starkey earns a good living telling a segment of the population what they want to hear.

Some stupidity is just wilful,
#15195701
pugsville wrote:Competence straw men babble with out meaning, rationally or merit.

Starkey earns a good living telling a segment of the population what they want to hear.

Some stupidity is just wilful,

whats about England invented the Modernity , do you agree on this ?
#15195704
litwin wrote:whats about England invented the Modernity , do you agree on this ?


Irrelevant.

Very overly simplistic statement. I donlt think modernity was a product of any one nation.

Primarily it's virture signalling piece of propaganda to emotively manipulate people. Works a treat.

I mean you can say with as much accuracy that Britain's industrialization was capitalized by slavery and imperialist exploitation.
#15195717
I loved Starkey's 'Monarchy' series which I cannot watch any more due to the extreme comments he made about slavery. Perhaps he should consider what is says better. Thunberg is merely talking about the start of large scale CO2 admissions into the atmosphere rather than any anti English rant. I guess we need to accept reality and history and stop linking it to liberal order and try and find solutions to climate change before it is too late.
#15195821
B0ycey wrote:I loved Starkey's 'Monarchy' series which I cannot watch any more due to the extreme comments he made about slavery. Perhaps he should consider what is says better. Thunberg is merely talking about the start of large scale CO2 admissions into the atmosphere rather than any anti English rant. I guess we need to accept reality and history and stop linking it to liberal order and try and find solutions to climate change before it is too late.

#15195822
Greta Thunberg attacked Britain for starting the Industrial Revolution as many of the technological and architectural innovations were of British origin. With the adoption of the Industrial Revolution's early innovations in the 1830s, slavery became obsolete and was abolished in 1834, which was a medieval practice unnecessary in the modern era. The Industrial Revolution may have triggered climate change, while blacks did not face genocide because of these technological advancements from Britain. David Starkey is from a working class family of cotton spinners and weavers, too, making it the direct beneficiary. Almost all modern things in my country are British copies, such as the postal system and railways. We have to wear business suits for work because it is the British standard.
#15195832
pugsville wrote:Irrelevant.

Very overly simplistic statement. I donlt think modernity was a product of any one nation.

Primarily it's virture signalling piece of propaganda to emotively manipulate people. Works a treat.

I mean you can say with as much accuracy that Britain's industrialization was capitalized by slavery and imperialist exploitation.

Slavery and imperialism of that kind was only possible after certain modern inventions were invented in the first place. African slaves couldn't be easily conquered or captured, nor could the New World be re-found and conquered, without first achieving the technological advances in ocean-sailing boats and portable firearms, for instance.

But both happened largely prior to the industrial revolution.
#15195833
He makes a good point about the apocalyptic doom-fearing being like a religion. I think we can acknowledge the serious threats of climate change without falsely prophetizing that humanity and the world is going to come to an end.
#15195840
Unthinking Majority wrote:He makes a good point about the apocalyptic doom-fearing being like a religion. I think we can acknowledge the serious threats of climate change without falsely prophetizing that humanity and the world is going to come to an end.


From what I understand, most of the IPCC papers, government reports, and other policy papers tend to downplay the possible impacts, and the actual science indicates that the actual impacts will probably be worse.

I do not think any serious climate scientist or policy maker is engaging in apocalyptic doom-fearing. It is possible that if you trawl long enough, you will examples of individual activists saying things like this, but this is true of every movement, and it would be illogical to judge the whole movement by these few.
#15195842
Pants-of-dog wrote:From what I understand, most of the IPCC papers, government reports, and other policy papers tend to downplay the possible impacts, and the actual science indicates that the actual impacts will probably be worse.

I do not think any serious climate scientist or policy maker is engaging in apocalyptic doom-fearing. It is possible that if you trawl long enough, you will examples of individual activists saying things like this, but this is true of every movement, and it would be illogical to judge the whole movement by these few.


Yes I totally agree. It's just when activists (and not a very small # of them), like in the case in the this video of Thunberg, say things that are not based in scientific fact, but deal in fire and brimstone in order to create fear and compliance, is when it starts sounding like a religion. Religion is faith without evidence, where heretics are crucified.

Generally why I also avoid documentaries in which the filmmakers seem to have some kind of agenda. Documentaries are not peer-reviewed.
#15195845
@Unthinking Majority

I think we would benefit from appreciating the difference between the exaggerations of a young and fierce advocate and any sort of institutional enshrinement of unquestionable tenets.

Ms. Thunberg does not have any power to treat anyone as a heretic. No environmental activists really do.

It is also somewhat disturbing that climate activists have to resort to exaggeration and appeals to fear in order to get people to do something. It shows that the general public, capitalism, and modern governments are not able to react effectively to science, if that science shows that we need to get rid of a multi-billion dollar global industry.
#15195848
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Unthinking Majority
Ms. Thunberg does not have any power to treat anyone as a heretic. No environmental activists really do.

I'm not even sure why she's famous quite frankly. We should be listening to scientists not youth activists. I have nothing against her, she's young and not a scientist and will sometimes say silly things like we all did when we were younger.

It is also somewhat disturbing that climate activists have to resort to exaggeration and appeals to fear in order to get people to do something. It shows that the general public, capitalism, and modern governments are not able to react effectively to science, if that science shows that we need to get rid of a multi-billion dollar global industry.

People want a better environment yet also want to keep their money/jobs and don't want to pay more for stuff. That's a hell of a contradiction we all need to come to terms with. I understand the hesitancy. But I'm perfectly fine paying a bit more for goods if it will help the environment in a meaningful way.
#15195849
Pants-of-dog wrote:
I think we would benefit from appreciating the difference between the exaggerations of a young and fierce advocate and any sort of institutional enshrinement of unquestionable tenets.

Does there need to be formal institutions for there to be unquestionable tenets based on beliefs that are contrary to science? She's far from the only member of this "religion" that preaches the same sermons and shames us for our sins.

Ms. Thunberg does not have any power to treat anyone as a heretic. No environmental activists really do.

Well in that video she called the UK "one of the biggest climate villains", and she has a big international platform of listeners. So there's a good vs evil dynamic happening here too. Amen. But I guess all she can personally do is shame others. So death by social crucifixion lol.
#15195859
Unthinking Majority wrote:I'm not even sure why she's famous quite frankly. We should be listening to scientists not youth activists. I have nothing against her, she's young and not a scientist and will sometimes say silly things like we all did when we were younger.


If we were listening to the scientists, the youth would not be marching and yelling in the streets.

People want a better environment yet also want to keep their money/jobs and don't want to pay more for stuff. That's a hell of a contradiction we all need to come to terms with. I understand the hesitancy. But I'm perfectly fine paying a bit more for goods if it will help the environment in a meaningful way.


This is a false dichotomy. We do not have to choose between a better environment and things costing a lot more. Instead, we should (again) listen to the scientists. Economists forecast that we will lose about 10% of the world GDP if things stay on the current trajectory. If we actually get to a 3.2 degrees Celsius increase, that figure will go up to 18%.

So, unless we need to spend that much to deal with climate change, the economic argument is clearly on the side of doing something about it now.

Unthinking Majority wrote:Does there need to be formal institutions for there to be unquestionable tenets based on beliefs that are contrary to science? She's far from the only member of this "religion" that preaches the same sermons and shames us for our sins.

Well in that video she called the UK "one of the biggest climate villains", and she has a big international platform of listeners. So there's a good vs evil dynamic happening here too. Amen. But I guess all she can personally do is shame others. So death by social crucifixion lol.


Again, Ms. Thunberg cannot punish people. They can, at best, make accusations that are not libellous or slanderous.

They cannot enforce any lack of questioning about tenets. And considering the sheer amount of climate denialism in the world (including this very forum), it is impossible to argue that people are not allowed to question it. Trump openly questioned it, and he was lauded for it and given the Oval Office.

In fact, people can not only question climate change, but intentionally lie about it. We know that oil companies have lied to the public about climate change and they have received no censure at all.

From a perspective of power, environmental activists have almost no social power at all. So any comparison to the power of churches to ostracise and exclude unbelievers can only be about elements of style or oratory on the part of speakers. If there is no similarity on a political level, it is not worth discussing.
#15195867
Pants-of-dog wrote:
From a perspective of power, environmental activists have almost no social power at all. So any comparison to the power of churches to ostracise and exclude unbelievers can only be about elements of style or oratory on the part of speakers. If there is no similarity on a political level, it is not worth discussing.


The comparison isn't to religions as organized institutions of power but as systems of thought. The thinking has similarities.

Some have argued that since organized religion is in decline in the west, people have filled the void with different ideologies, like climate alarmism, wokeism, rightwing conspiratardism etc. I guess Trump is a Christ-figure lol. Mike Pence is Judas! All worship the Big Lie!
#15195872
Unthinking Majority wrote:The comparison isn't to religions as organized institutions of power

Actually it is. Because the relationship of Thunberg to the Liberal establishment bears uncanny similarity to the relationship of the child saints to the religious establishment of Medieval Europe. This is classical fascism, a popular movement combined with corrupt powerful established interests. This is why I keep asking the question why are Liberals so stupid. You see they think their so clever because they've worked out that back in the eighties and nineties some of the corporations heavily invested in fossil fuels might have used their influence to down play the effects of green house emissions. Yes we get that. Powerful people use their influence in their own perceived self interests. Do you think the controllers of capital in Communist countries, the Communist party bosses don't interfere in science for their perceived self interests.

But are you really so stupid, not to realise that climate change rules, regulations and consumer preference changes, will lead to a bigger energy industry not a smaller one? The energy industry will have more profits not less. It will have a bigger market capitalisation not less and there will be more money paid out to top energy executives. Oh yes the Climate-hysteria industrial complex is massive.
#15195886
Unthinking Majority wrote:The comparison isn't to religions as organized institutions of power but as systems of thought. The thinking has similarities.

Some have argued that since organized religion is in decline in the west, people have filled the void with different ideologies, like climate alarmism, wokeism, rightwing conspiratardism etc. I guess Trump is a Christ-figure lol. Mike Pence is Judas! All worship the Big Lie!


Can you provide some examples of similarities?

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