World leaders reluctant to boycott event hosted by 'genocidal' regime - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15202832
I don't see the problem with criticizing all regimes. Just because your regime does wrong, doesn't mean you cannot or should not criticize others (and your own).

This "shut up because your country sucks too" argument is weak. This is often used on pofo. We should all be calling out all of these bafoons from China, US, EU, UK, whatever. At the end of the day, people are not the government.
#15202840
Rancid wrote:I don't see the problem with criticizing all regimes. Just because your regime does wrong, doesn't mean you cannot or should not criticize others (and your own).

This "shut up because your country sucks too" argument is weak. This is often used on pofo. We should all be calling out all of these bafoons from China, US, EU, UK, whatever. At the end of the day, people are not the government.


I guess I am starting to see us all as not far from the same. In China you have the CCP run by a strongman. In Russia Putin is a dictator for life. In the USA we have rule by 9 person tribunal appointed for life. As far as I can tell the UK and the EU are the last bastions of nominal democracy around. Maybe Canada hey.
#15202842
Drlee wrote:As far as I can tell the UK and the EU are the last bastions of nominal democracy around. Maybe Canada hey.


In terms of the UK, democracy is actually at its lowest "normality" that it has ever been in my lifetime. And that isn't meant to be of any disrespect to the nation but how the government think they can act. We have a serial liar as a leader and we have had one sandal after another occurring right now. In a way I wish we had more British users on PoFo. This forum would be on fire if we had.
#15202857
B0ycey wrote:In terms of the UK, democracy is actually at its lowest "normality" that it has ever been in my lifetime. And that isn't meant to be of any disrespect to the nation but how the government think they can act. We have a serial liar as a leader and we have had one sandal after another occurring right now. In a way I wish we had more British users on PoFo. This forum would be on fire if we had.


It is concerning.

You need the old (really old) House of Lords back to ride herd on the Commons. God forbid they should get delusions of grandeur and contrive to think a Duke equals a Senator. ;) :)
#15202864
Drlee wrote:It is concerning.

You need the old (really old) House of Lords back to ride herd on the Commons. God forbid they should get delusions of grandeur and contrive to think a Duke equals a Senator. ;) :)


It has nothing to do with the Lords, which should be obsolete in any case. And it has everything to do with etiquette. May and Cameron might have done some serious miscalculations (fuck ups), but they knew the rules of UK democracy and didn't try and bend the system into complete corruption and sleaze like Johnson.

Nonetheless I wouldn't go as far as to say Johnson is as bad as Trump for lying. Nor would I say that everything he touches turns to shit - so you guys have it far worse. But Johnson commands no respect from the opposition or internationally because he acts like he is above the rules and is a complete clown. Every PM questions has turned into a sketch from the two Ronnie's when the answer doesn't match the question asked, he has lied in the chamber umpteenth times which is against the ministerial code and something he should resign for, his back benchers don't vote for him even when whipped, there is the whole Patterson affair, Downing Street decor scandal, Christmas parties, Bernard Castle, Cummings, Northern Ireland protocol... you name it, he's bodged it. UK Democracy at this moment in time is a complete mess. To say otherwise isn't looking at the bigger picture. As I said, there have been some HUGE stories that have come out of the UK recently and there isn't the UK PoFo base to bring those stories to their up most importance on here. Perhaps that is why you think our democracy is running OK right now. I don't know. But we have a by-election on Thursday and that may well demask the clusterfuck better for you. So perhaps listen out to US news on that, if they follow up on the story.
#15202868
Rancid wrote:I don't see the problem with criticizing all regimes. Just because your regime does wrong, doesn't mean you cannot or should not criticize others (and your own).

This "shut up because your country sucks too" argument is weak. This is often used on pofo. We should all be calling out all of these bafoons from China, US, EU, UK, whatever. At the end of the day, people are not the government.

Yup there's a big different between the CCP and the Chinese people.
#15202870
Drlee wrote:I am starting to see us all as not far from the same.


Agree, at least we still have the freedom to call them (them as in the US government) out on their bullshit. Unlike those in Russia/China though.

So, sure, all of these nations do wicked things, and our own nation cannot be excluded, but it's also true that we should not accept it from any of those nations. We can call out all sides for their various infractions upon humanity.
#15202878
B0ycey wrote:It has nothing to do with the Lords, which should be obsolete in any case. And it has everything to do with etiquette. May and Cameron might have done some serious miscalculations (fuck ups), but they knew the rules of UK democracy and didn't try and bend the system into complete corruption and sleaze like Johnson.

Nonetheless I wouldn't go as far as to say Johnson is as bad as Trump for lying. Nor would I say that everything he touches turns to shit - so you guys have it far worse. But Johnson commands no respect from the opposition or internationally because he acts like he is above the rules and is a complete clown. Every PM questions has turned into a sketch from the two Ronnie's when the answer doesn't match the question asked, he has lied in the chamber umpteenth times which is against the ministerial code and something he should resign for, his back benchers don't vote for him even when whipped, there is the whole Patterson affair, Downing Street decor scandal, Christmas parties, Bernard Castle, Cummings, Northern Ireland protocol... you name it, he's bodged it. UK Democracy at this moment in time is a complete mess. To say otherwise isn't looking at the bigger picture. As I said, there have been some HUGE stories that have come out of the UK recently and there isn't the UK PoFo base to bring those stories to their up most importance on here. Perhaps that is why you think our democracy is running OK right now. I don't know. But we have a by-election on Thursday and that may well demask the clusterfuck better for you. So perhaps listen out to US news on that, if they follow up on the story.


From what I can tell Johnson wouldn't claim fraud if he lost an election, or if he did the Brits would just laugh at it.

Besides, Covid messes up politics in all countries, not only Anglo-Saxon ones.
#15202886
Drlee wrote:In the USA we have rule by 9 person tribunal appointed for life. As far as I can tell the UK and the EU are the last bastions of nominal democracy around.


The EU has similar "design issues" like the US. Treaties that are very hard to change (unanimity) complemented with a powerful court (ECJ) that interprets them and whose rulings are binding for all member states. The difference is there's an exit option.
#15202895
Rancid wrote:Agree, at least we still have the freedom to call them (them as in the US government) out on their bullshit. Unlike those in Russia/China though.

So, sure, all of these nations do wicked things, and our own nation cannot be excluded, but it's also true that we should not accept it from any of those nations. We can call out all sides for their various infractions upon humanity.

CCP is like having an abusive husband who thinks they know best for you and if you ever disagree, stand up to them, or otherwise get out of line you'll get a slap across the face and your friends won't see you for a week or 2.

Every single tyrant in the world is the same. I've met a lot of them in my life but they just don't run countries. Trump was one, but he was constrained by a system that was specifically and carefully set up to protect itself against assholes like him because the founding fathers knew the game.

World leaders might be total hypocrites but doing a little bit of good to pressure change is better than doing nothing and just saying "whattaboutism".
#15203389
About President Nixon's pivot to China in the 70s, late wrote:We had relations with a lot of unsavory characters back then. We didn't care.

Image

Has this changed?

And does an entity that regularly uses organized crime tactics and mass murder... maintain the moral high ground with which to lecture other styles of governance?
#15203517
QatzelOk wrote:And does an entity that regularly uses organized crime tactics and mass murder... maintain the moral high ground with which to lecture other styles of governance?


Actually I think yes. You just haven't seen what is worse.
#15205407
Fasces wrote:World leaders told their diplomats won't be exempted from quarantine procedures that affect all foreign arrivals. World leaders decide to use opportunity to declare it a boycott. :lol:

Some world leaders. Not all.

I don't think Palestine is boycotting the olympics "because of a state genocide... out there somewhere" - for example.
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