[Deutschmania]

This is a standard occurrence in any non-democratic state to have a voter participation of around 30% or less. Actually this could be an easy benchmark for Authoritarian states and their phony elections since most of them, especially if they are the main election and voter participation doesn't reach 30% then your election has serious problems or you are living in an Autocracy/Dictatorship in reality which is only trying to pretend that it is a democracy.

The United States has averaged around that benchmark percentage at times . https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_turnout_i ... _elections There are several possible reasons for why this might be . https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/v ... ted-states , https://ekuonline.eku.edu/blog/politica ... ed-states/

[JohnRawls]

The United States has averaged around that benchmark percentage at times . https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_turnout_i ... _elections There are several possible reasons for why this might be . https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/v ... ted-states , https://ekuonline.eku.edu/blog/politica ... ed-states/

You didn't read from the start but this is about the main election. In case of the US it is the presidential election.

[quetzalcoatl]

This is a standard occurrence in any non-democratic state to have a voter participation of around 30% or less. Actually this could be an easy benchmark for Authoritarian states and their phony elections since most of them, especially if they are the main election and voter participation doesn't reach 30% then your election has serious problems or you are living in an Autocracy/Dictatorship in reality which is only trying to pretend that it is a democracy.

Americans:

[Rugoz]

The United States has averaged around that benchmark percentage at times . https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_turnout_i ... _elections There are several possible reasons for why this might be . https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/v ... ted-states , https://ekuonline.eku.edu/blog/politica ... ed-states/

Doesn't say 30% anywhere.

Not that I think low turnout is somehow a reliable indicator for autocracy. That's too simplistic.

Meanwhile Hong Kong universities were forced to remove Tiananmen Square massacre monuments.

[Torus34]

Though the news of the day may concentrate upon the latest curious or perhaps risible statement by this or that politician or celebrity, the continuing exodus of people from Hong Kong should rate at least a 'page 4' mention. Vancouver and certain other 'western' cities are reaping the benefits of the new arrivals.

We in the United States of America would do well to ease their path to a safe landing here.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.

[Igor Antunov]

Elections are a waste of resources and should be outlawed. Point me to a single democracy that isn't a corrupted, failing waste of time...pro-tip you can't. We need to wean the sheep off this smoke and mirrors oligarchy masquerading as choice. The illusion of choice is far more devious and damaging long term than the absence of choice.

Majority of western population is utterly brainwashed and incapable of perceiving reality-it is thoroughly defeated and demoralized - that's what demofarcy has done to their brains. They actually believe the bullshit the two-party oligarchy has been peddling. They are so easy to control-don't even need to be convinced with bread and circuses anymore, they can just be told 'muh russiah' or 'muh chynah' and 50% or more of the populace is on board with whatever directives the colluding oligarchs with their fake in-fighting, political parties and elections peddle.

It has become so ridiculous to watch self professed leftists defending the likes of giant megacorporations such as twitter or Pfizer, or promoting free trade just because the piper is playing the right tune for their ears. Equally as ridiculous to watch right wing conservatives supporting the likes of civic nationalism or freedom of religion. The world is on its head precisely because this is a circus and you homies is all being played like drums.

[JohnRawls]

Elections are a waste of resources and should be outlawed. Point me to a single democracy that isn't a corrupted, failing waste of time...pro-tip you can't. We need to ween the sheep off this smoke and mirrors oligarchy masquerading as choice. The illusion of choice is far more devious and damaging long term than the absence of choice.

Majority of western population is utterly brainwashed and incapable of perceiving reality-it is thoroughly defeated and demoralized - that's what demofarcy has done to their brains. They actually believe the bullshit the two-party oligarchy has been peddling. They are so easy to control-don't even need to be convinced with bread and circuses anymore, they can just be told 'muh russiah' or 'muh chynah' and 50% or more of the populace is on board with whatever directives the colluding oligarchs with their fake in-fighting, political parties and elections peddle.

It has become so ridiculous to watch self professed leftists defending the likes of giant megacorporations such as twitter or Pfizer, or promoting free trade just because the piper is playing the right tune for their ears. Equally as ridiculous to watch right wing conservatives supporting the likes of civic nationalism or freedom of religion. The world is on its head precisely because this is a circus and you homies is all being played like drums.

All of Western democracies and New European democracies after the fall of the SU have a higher standard of living(much higher) and per capita income than China or any of your favourite dictatorial countries. Not sure what you are on about here.

Lets go with Russia as an example. When the SU collapsed Russia had about 20% gdp per capita higher than Estonia. Now in 2021 end we have 2.7 times higher GDP per capita nominal than Russia.

[Igor Antunov]

All of Western democracies and New European democracies after the fall of the SU have a higher standard of living(much higher) and per capita income than China or any of your favourite dictatorial countries. Not sure what you are on about here.

Lets go with Russia as an example. When the SU collapsed Russia had about 20% gdp per capita higher than Estonia. Now in 2021 end we have 2.7 times higher GDP per capita nominal than Russia.

It's all temporary and it's about to blow up and collapse. None of this has any legs. It's all built on inflation. You've traded centuries of real prosperity for a few decades of gluttonous consumerism. And your currency exchange rates won't mean a thing when your suppliers run out of supplies because supply chains are so easy to disrupt by a country like Russia in times of conflict. Or when entire generations of your demoralized kids opt to study social science instead of stem even as important industries cease to exists and move abroad. No amount of bill printing will save you. What happened in Russia in the 90's is exactly what's coming to you.

The end is nigh. Prepare your anus.

[JohnRawls]

It's all temporary and it's about to blow up and collapse. None of this has any legs. It's all built on inflation. You've traded centuries of real prosperity for a few decades of gluttonous consumerism. And your currency exchange rates won't mean a thing when your suppliers run out of supplies because supply chains are so easy to disrupt by a country like Russia in times of conflict. Or when entire generations of your demoralized kids opt to study social science instead of stem even as important industries cease to exists and move abroad. No amount of bill printing will save you. What happened in Russia in the 90's is exactly what's coming to you.

The end is nigh. Prepare your anus.

Sure, sure. That is what the dictatorship have been saying for more than 100 years now. Dollar and now the Euro are still reserve currencies and gdp per capita nominal are folds larger.

After the fall of the USSR, the democratic societies took it as a end of history as Fukuyama put it and we were lazy and non-interested in dealing with dictatorship and other corrupt shitholes. This is changing again and has been for the last 5 years. Russia and China demonstrated that such attitude was wrong. We hoped that Russia and China will eventually change by themselves because they want prosperity but now both are stuck in the middle income trap and are becoming more aggressive and repressive to keep their internal regimes intact. Russia more so than China for now but China isn't far behind on that honestly. Same goes for many medium sized states in Africa, South America and the Middle East.

You might hate democracy and liberalism but without them, you will not have a successful economy for many reasons especially on a per capita basis. The only alternative is being a tax haven or a small country with massive amount of some very needed resource like oil. Which is obviously not an option for China or Russia or any medium or large state at that.

China and Russia, are not really a threat, when looking at the big picture when it comes to economic power. The only real threat is our disunity on some questions. Democratic countries when put together still control around 75% of global economy and probably around 80-90% of global wealth.

[Rugoz]

Elections are a waste of resources and should be outlawed. Point me to a single democracy that isn't a corrupted, failing waste of time...pro-tip you can't.

Igor isn't even trying anymore.

[Patrickov]

:lol:

Igor isn't even trying anymore.

Because China doesn't anymore.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... stand-news

[Igor Antunov]

Sure, sure. That is what the dictatorship have been saying for more than 100 years now. Dollar and now the Euro are still reserve currencies and gdp per capita nominal are folds larger.

After the fall of the USSR, the democratic societies took it as a end of history as Fukuyama put it and we were lazy and non-interested in dealing with dictatorship and other corrupt shitholes. This is changing again and has been for the last 5 years. Russia and China demonstrated that such attitude was wrong. We hoped that Russia and China will eventually change by themselves because they want prosperity but now both are stuck in the middle income trap and are becoming more aggressive and repressive to keep their internal regimes intact. Russia more so than China for now but China isn't far behind on that honestly. Same goes for many medium sized states in Africa, South America and the Middle East.

You might hate democracy and liberalism but without them, you will not have a successful economy for many reasons especially on a per capita basis. The only alternative is being a tax haven or a small country with massive amount of some very needed resource like oil. Which is obviously not an option for China or Russia or any medium or large state at that.

China and Russia, are not really a threat, when looking at the big picture when it comes to economic power. The only real threat is our disunity on some questions. Democratic countries when put together still control around 75% of global economy and probably around 80-90% of global wealth.

Why would Russia go back to the 90's, and why the hell would China adopt an inferior socio-economic system?

[JohnRawls]

Why would Russia go back to the 90's, and why the hell would China adopt an inferior socio-economic system?

See here is the problem that you just don't understand. Russian mismanaged reforms of the early 90s were later re-reformed by the more succesful reforms under late Yeltsin and same team under early Putin that provided the economic growth until around 2008. The problem was that Putin fired the team because they advised monopoly busting and anti-corruption couple of years after he took office and after 2008 the growth was gone.

For China situation is similar, Deng reforms of economic liberalisation and introducing semi-democratic principles within the CCP provided the growth for China. But now Xi is removing them both in the economic liberalisation aspect and especially any reforms within the party. The growth is already falling and stalling and you don't need to be super smart to understand what is happening right now.

[Patrickov]

See here is the problem that you just don't understand. Russian mismanaged reforms of the early 90s were later re-reformed by the more succesful reforms under late Yeltsin and same team under early Putin that provided the economic growth until around 2008. The problem was that Putin fired the team because they advised monopoly busting and anti-corruption couple of years after he took office and after 2008 the growth was gone.

For China situation is similar, Deng reforms of economic liberalisation and introducing semi-democratic principles within the CCP provided the growth for China. But now Xi is removing them both in the economic liberalisation aspect and especially any reforms within the party. The growth is already falling and stalling and you don't need to be super smart to understand what is happening right now.

He understands, but refuses to listen because it does not serve his anti-democracy pro-oppression ideals.

[Igor Antunov]

See here is the problem that you just don't understand. Russian mismanaged reforms of the early 90s were later re-reformed by the more succesful reforms under late Yeltsin and same team under early Putin that provided the economic growth until around 2008. The problem was that Putin fired the team because they advised monopoly busting and anti-corruption couple of years after he took office and after 2008 the growth was gone.

For China situation is similar, Deng reforms of economic liberalisation and introducing semi-democratic principles within the CCP provided the growth for China. But now Xi is removing them both in the economic liberalisation aspect and especially any reforms within the party. The growth is already falling and stalling and you don't need to be super smart to understand what is happening right now.

Russia is stronger than at any time since 1990. Nominal gdp is a meme. Real gdp is the size of germany and russia is consuming more energy than it did in the 80's as a soviet republic. Full steam ahead. Explains the consolidation and expansion of territory.

Chinese growth is not slowing, it is entering a new mode of development, a dual strategy of consumption and investment driven expansion. Chinese labor force in manufactured goods has been more expensive than the Mexican one since 2012, yet you don't see a massive shift of production to Mexico by American firms. This is because China has infrastructure and stability like nowhere else and its only getting even better. China has been manufacturing goods in all segments of the value chain for so long it is simply too good at it now. Nobody is catching up.

Stop presenting copium and hopium as valid geo-economic arguments.

[JohnRawls]

Russia is stronger than at any time since 1990. Nominal gdp is a meme. Real gdp is the size of germany and russia is consuming more energy than it did in the 80's as a soviet republic. Full steam ahead. Explains the consolidation and expansion of territory.

Chinese growth is not slowing, it is entering a new mode of development, a dual strategy of consumption and investment driven expansion. Chinese labor force in manufactured goods has been more expensive than the Mexican one since 2012, yet you don't see a massive shift of production to Mexico by American firms. This is because China has infrastructure and stability like nowhere else and its only getting even better. China has been manufacturing goods in all segments of the value chain for so long it is simply too good at it now. Nobody is catching up.

Stop presenting copium and hopium as valid geo-economic arguments.

Consumption of electricity is a pretty shitty indicator considering the more energy efficient you are the more efficient you are in general. As for the 90s comparison, Russia is doing better than in the 90s but this was said before, the growth that was fascilitated by later re-reform is gone and Russia has not really managed to have any growth post 2008 of any significant relevance or size compared to its current level of development. It has been almost 15 years...

As for the Chinese, they talked about the reforms but it has failed if you consider it finished. If you don't consider it finished then it is not doing what the leadership talked about.

So why are even the least developed democratic countries of the west more developed than your dictatorial shitholes? Why are old democracies have 5-10 times more gdp per capita nominal while the newer members having started from relatively less or same have now 2-3 more than your beloved dictatorships?

[Rancid]

I wonder what is the psychology of the pofo dictatorship dick suckers.

Some sort of Stockholm syndrome. I wonder what is their life trauma?

[JohnRawls]

I wonder what is the psychology of the pofo dictatorship dick suckers.

Some sort of Stockholm syndrome. I wonder what is their life trauma?

They live in the West mostly so they have no clue is my proposition.

The only exception is Instambuller perhaps who actually lives in Turkey by the looks of it.

[Patrickov]

Some sort of Stockholm syndrome. I wonder what is their life trauma?

No. They are simply beneficiaries, either in terms of actual profit or in an ideological sense.

Antunov is probably the biggest exception on PoFo. While I very much believe that Antunov should have been bombed into pieces, the NATO's failure to do so means that his stance is much more justifiable than we sometimes claim it to be.