Russia openly threatens "entire European continent" during Geneva talks. - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15206909
The Guardian wrote:US and Russian diplomats have emerged from a day of negotiations in Geneva over the fate of Ukraine, describing the talks as “useful” and “very professional” – but also stressing they had not made progress towards resolving fundamental disagreements.

The two sides largely spent the eight hours of talks presenting their points of view on the situation in Ukraine, currently hemmed in by some 100,000 Russian troops, and on European security in general, and deferred further debate on them to a meeting in Brussels on Wednesday between Russia and all Nato members.

“We had useful discussions and exchanges today that will help inform our way forward,” Wendy Sherman, the deputy US secretary of state and leader of the delegation in Geneva, told reporters after the day of talks.

Her Russian counterpart, Sergei Ryabkov, said: “The conversation was difficult, long, very professional, deep, concrete, without attempts to embellish or smooth over sharp corners.

“We have been left with the impression that the American side approached the Russian proposals very seriously, studied them in depth,” Ryabkov said.

Sherman also remarked on the Russians’ readiness to negotiate, saying they discussed “things that are not Russian priorities”.

She said that the issues of reciprocal limits on military exercises and missile deployments were discussed, but the US ruled out as a matter of principle, the idea of a guarantee that Ukraine would never join Nato, restating that it was the country’s sovereign right to decide.

“We were firm in pushing back on security proposals that are simply non-starters for the United States,” Sherman said. “We will not allow anyone to slam close Nato’s open door policy.”

While conceding that the talks were “not hopeless” Ryabkov confirmed Russia had made no progress in achieving its key goals, which the Kremlin laid out in December in two proposed treaties with the US and Nato, which included a pledge by the US that Nato would no longer accept new members such as Ukraine or Georgia.

In his remarks on Monday, Ryabkov said that a pledge from Nato not to expand further, to limit the deployment of weapons in countries bordering Russia, and to roll back military activity in new Nato countries were “requirements we cannot step back from”.

Ryabkov said the two sides had continued to clash over what the agenda of future talks should be. While the US has sought to focus on technical arms control issues, Ryabkov described those as a secondary concern compared with the far thornier demand to limit Nato’s presence in central and eastern Europe.

He also noted that elements of Russia’s demands, such as an effective veto on future Nato enlargement, appear to be non-starters for the US and its allies. Analysts have said that the aggressive demands made by Russia mean that the negotiations are headed for a dead-end.

“Regrettably, there are also other aspects of the same sort where we disagree: something that is absolutely necessary to us is categorically unacceptable to the Americans,” Ryabkov told the press.

He warned that Russia did not want negotiations to take months or years and insisted that Moscow would also stick to its demands for Nato to roll back its troops and infrastructure in eastern Europe to pre-1997 levels. The US presence on the alliance’s eastern flank was significantly reinforced after the Russian annexation of Crimea and covert military intervention in eastern Ukraine in 2014.

“There needs to be a breakthrough, there needs to be a real step toward Russia – a step made by Nato,” Ryabkov said. “If this doesn’t happen ... we very much don’t want to have a situation where Nato countries led by the US make that kind of mistake and once again act to undermine their own security and the security of the whole European continent.”

He said both sides were looking to the upcoming Nato-Russia Council on Wednesday as a testing ground for whether Russia can come to a new arrangement with the security alliance.

Ryabkov repeated Russian assurances that Moscow was not planning to attack Ukraine. All Russian troop movements were taking place inside the country’s borders, he said, and “there is no basis to worry about an escalation in connection to this”.

On being informed of his remarks, Sherman responded: “They can prove that, in fact, they have no intention [to invade] by de-escalating and returning troops to barracks.”

Over the weekend, open source investigators had identified new signs that Russia’s military buildup on the border with Ukraine was probably continuing.

Videos posted on social networks such as TikTok showed Russian armor and artillery being transported by rail through cities along the Trans-Siberian Railway, suggesting that reinforcements may be traveling toward Russia’s border with Ukraine from nearly 4,000 miles away.

Those forces included main battle tanks, armored personnel carriers, and rocket artillery, all elements of what could form new battalion tactical groups (BTGs) that could launch an attack across the border. Russia has stationed more than 50 BTGs near Ukraine, a considerable portion of the Russian armed forces’ total.

Sherman said Russia had a stark choice to make.

“If Russia walks away from the diplomatic path, it may well be quite apparent that they were never serious about pursuing diplomacy,” she said.

The Nato-Russia meeting in Brussels on Wednesday will be followed by a session of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, in Vienna, which will be the only one of the three diplomatic venues at which Ukraine will be directly represented in talks with Russia. European states who are not Nato members will also be represented, including Finland and Sweden who could reassess membership if Russia launches a new attack on Ukraine.

Sherman said that Washington would assess the whole week’s diplomacy before deciding on the future direction of talks.

“We will have discussions with our allies and partners in the days ahead and at the end of this week, informed by those discussions, the US and Russian governments will discuss the way forward,” she said.

At the Geneva talks, Sherman repeated the US threat to impose unprecedented sanctions in the event of an invasion of Ukraine.

“Certain threats, or at the very least warnings, were made to us,” Ryabkov confirmed, but suggested they were unnecessary because Russia had no intention of launching an invasion.
#15207682
While the NATO peacefully financed the coup in Ukraine, as well as the following civil war, and doesnt stop warning us since 2013 that Russia will invade any day now.

And while NATO peacefully puts nuclear rockets close to the russian borders.

And peacefully ramps up the military near the russian borders.

Not to mention all the other non-military squabble, like the russian gas pipelines. The russians dare to only fulfill what was negotiated beforehand ! Clearly an act of war.

One really has to wonder if the russian bear will get even more violent if we one day peacefully invade Russia.

We're the good guys. Everybody else is the bad guys. Did Hollywood teach you guys NOTHING ?
#15207689
Negotiator wrote:
1) While the NATO peacefully financed the coup in Ukraine, as well as the following civil war, and doesnt stop warning us since 2013 that Russia will invade any day now.

2) And while NATO peacefully puts nuclear rockets close to the russian borders.

3) And peacefully ramps up the military near the russian borders.

4) Not to mention all the other non-military squabble, like the russian gas pipelines. The russians dare to only fulfill what was negotiated beforehand ! Clearly an act of war.

5) One really has to wonder if the russian bear will get even more violent if we one day peacefully invade Russia.




1) Are we ignoring what Russia was doing?

2) Nuclear weapons the West removed from Ukraine with the promise of protecting them from Russian invasion...

3) So it's ok for Russia to undermine and even invade it's neighbors. They're perfect, so no need to do anything, just lie down and let Putin slam his hobnail boot down on your neck..

4) You're pretending Putin isn't doing his usual dirty tricks. He does that early and often.

5) It's Russia doing the invading, Einstein...
#15207690
Negotiator wrote:While the NATO peacefully financed the coup in Ukraine, as well as the following civil war, and doesnt stop warning us since 2013 that Russia will invade any day now.

And while NATO peacefully puts nuclear rockets close to the russian borders.

And peacefully ramps up the military near the russian borders.

Not to mention all the other non-military squabble, like the russian gas pipelines. The russians dare to only fulfill what was negotiated beforehand ! Clearly an act of war.

One really has to wonder if the russian bear will get even more violent if we one day peacefully invade Russia.

We're the good guys. Everybody else is the bad guys. Did Hollywood teach you guys NOTHING ?

If Cuba can't put nukes on its island after JFK staged the Bay of Pigs, I don't see it as unreasonable for Russia to want all states along its border to at least remain neutral. But I'm not sure he wants them neutral, he wants them to be Russian.
#15207696
It's funny that both of you quoted Negotiator's propaganda as if it's true.

Russia invaded the Ukraine to prevent it from signing a trade association agreement with the EU akin to the one signed by the UK, Turkey, Israel and even Russia itself. NATO did not become a subject until Russia invaded the Ukraine, occupied it and thus rendered Ukrainian security as a priority for Ukraine. Naturally, they asked to join NATO and have still not been accepted despite the fact that Russia invaded them, occupied them and is now threatening to invade them again as well as the rest of the European continent.

Russian aggression against the Ukraine and Europe is not justified by US aggression elsewhere.
#15207784
@Unthinking Majority You have point the difference is that now is 21st century and usA is still occupying Cuba while in same time arguing why local prorusian citizens of Ukraine and Georgia are backed by Rusia, yes the famous hipocrisy of the western democracy!

@noemon as I remember through colored revolution usA invaded Ukraine, yet many are ignoring the same pattern even on Middle East altho one of the most rewarded nato generals stated openly that was word for western cues and occupations [1][1]

its plain geopolitics at stake, and think Russia is sincere how is politely asking step back or face the consequences, but on contrary usA is building up tensions in Ukraine, tho think this is only minor provocation so Russia will loose effectiveness with NS2 so now usA is trying to provoke more sanctions and eventually plumb out the russian gas from eU, yeah it will be cheaper the exported american lng, but what if with all this pressure Rusia is challenged would usA react if it was in its shoes, take a guess, still Rusia is asking put down the ball but almost noone in eU is listening coz usA will not for sure unless is pushed by its allies!
#15207799
Russia invading the Ukraine, occupying it and then reassembling a 100k army to invade again is the very definition of building up tension. Neither the US nor Europe have done anything to match these moves by the Russian military.

Russia is the aggressor, not the Ukraine, nor Europe or the US.
#15207850
simply compare it to Cuba in which case usA is occupying directly foreign country while in Donbas and Lugans the local population made effort with support by Russia to say no to the instigated by usA coup of Ukraine, if by accident cubans decide to retake what was theirs for sure usA will mobilize more than 100k army tho not on Florida but in gitmo, and again they will not have excuse as defending proamerican locals as now Rusia has in case with Lugansk and Donbas ...

    the problem with all this is the weakness of usaf for direct confrontation but trying to provoke russian reaction by sending mpri alike stuff except weapons in Ukraine what means readiness for larger operation against Donbas and Lugansk on what for sure Rusia is reacting by moving forces near the border ... compare it to usA and Taiwan are they not sending ships patrolling around the island when some tensions are built up, is that not threat for whole world except China!? altho only common niche for americans and taiwanese people is the fading american dream!

trying to fingerpoint Russia as guilty in this case is ridiculous, the problem of perception tho comes from too much euroatlantic agitrpop that Donbas and Lugansk are separatist regions yeah while Kosovo isnt, so hypocrisy is the greatest western luxury!
#15207858
Cuba is not comparable by no means to Ukraine, tho Kosovo is, and in both cases usA suspended the international law, way later Russia used the kosovo example but just when nato i.e. usA made colored revolution in Ukraine, if the same happened in Mexico example by russians americans would provoked immediately war, while as we see russians are more tactical than aggressive!
#15207870
Odiseizam wrote:Cuba is not comparable by no means to Ukraine, tho Kosovo is, and in both cases usA suspended the international law, way later Russia used the kosovo example but just when nato i.e. usA made colored revolution in Ukraine, if the same happened in Mexico example by russians americans would provoked immediately war, while as we see russians are more tactical than aggressive!

Do you mean Puerto Rico rather than Cuba...? :eh:
#15208070
Odiseizam wrote:how is keeping without consent own base on sovereign cuban soil its occupation indeed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanam ... st_century


The Communists usurped power in Cuba so the "no consent" part should be ignored. They do not represent the nation.

Considering the fact that you are an anti-US dictatorship apologist, I won't treat any argument put forward by you seriously.
#15208092
its always easy to wear exceptional mask, defacto Cuba is sovereign country accepted in UN too, finding excuses like those will not change the fact that at stake is naked imperialism but justifiable only for usA, while everybody else are occupiers when as empires are forcing own interests, thats the hypocrisy which sadly is followed by europeans, practically we need to reinstate the international law again, but how when usA is not willing to do so in its own sphere of interest, blaming Russia or China as someone who want to brought disbalance is wrong, the mirror should be turned westwards first if we want steady compromise, saying now Russia dont have the right that already is exploited by usA way earlier is at best ridiculous! still Russia hasnt done nothing but is warning dont push our patience, but someone dont care while chasing own anaconda doctrine blindly, I really Hope europeans will not follow this euroatlantic deterministic spin, otherwise risk as poltrons to end up in huge mess from different aspects, but Glory To Our Lord For Everything That Was Us And Will Be coz we are all deserving it through our wrong exploitation of our free will!
#15208096
no I am not saying that the international law should be suspended, but that the usA already has suspend it, and when empires are endangered for sure will not hesitate to act, in this case I just point Russia has excuse except interest to push for contagion, usA dont care as long europeans are blind enough so would loose the cheap gas from NS2, and above all ukrainians are the bargain coin but sadly misused by usA!
#15208100
You are saying that Russia deserves to invade and occupy the Ukraine because the Americans have been leasing a base in Cuba and that makes them hypocrites.

Russia invaded the Ukraine to prevent it from signing a EU trade association agreement akin to the one signed by Turkey, Israel, the UK and others. Not a valid excuse.

Your sayings are the very definition of Russian propaganda.

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