Ukraine rebels announce mass evacuation of all civilians from territories - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15213081
@Igor Antunov

Don't be so sure. Russia could possibly end up fighting a drawn out, protracted, and costly partisan war in Ukraine that is largely funded by the West. Just because you occupy a country doesn't necessarily mean it's over. It might be just the beginning. I think Putin is about to make a big mistake by invading Ukraine. Some of his own officers in his army also have their doubts and for good reason. My understanding, based on news reports, Putin doesn't allow for his subordinates to challenge his views on policy, which, eventually, leads to costly mistakes. I believe those news reports too.
#15213099
Igor is right, the Ukraine is not Afghanistan. Ukrainians themselves are for the most part semi-Russians. Ukrainian people very often identify as Russian. Ukraine had a pro-Russian government for decades and recently.

Moreover it is almost totally flat, it would take very a minor effort from Russia to annex it. It seems it will happen even without actual war as Ukraine comes to terms with the reality in the ground, that it has no support from the west and is faced with 200k Russian soldiers as well as possibly over half its population sympathizing with Russia. In 10 years the word 'Ukranian' may not even exist anymore, not even in ethnic memory.

We have crossed the Rubicon and gone back into the old era of 20th century multilateral imperialism.

Without tangible military support, Ukraine is finished and Zelensky knows it.
#15213108
Sandzak wrote:I think there could be a coordinated attack on Ukraine, Taiwan and Israel.


I highly doubt that the Sino-Russian alliance would open 3 fronts simultaneously.

One by one is much easier. Though I doubt they will attack Israel. But Taiwan is certainly next.

Erdogan and several Turkish ministers have again in the course of the past few days reiterated their claims that "Greek islands are not sovereign" so there is that also.
#15213109
Rancid wrote:Indeed, sanctions, if there are any, aren't going to do much of anything.

Nothing else than taking the Russians seriously and dealing with them accordingly will help, so I wonder if for how long Biden means to be the new sheriff in town aiming to differ from his predecessor as much as he can. Maybe he shouldn't keep it that way until November.
#15213110
noemon wrote:I highly doubt that the Sino-Russian alliance would open 3 fronts simultaneously.

One by one is much easier. Though I doubt they will attack Israel. But Taiwan is certainly next.

Erdogan and several Turkish ministers have again in the course of the past few days reiterated their claims that "Greek islands are not sovereign" so there is that also.



Iran is also part of the conspiracy (Shanghai Treaty Organisation).
Last edited by Sandzak on 19 Feb 2022 19:01, edited 1 time in total.
#15213111
Beren wrote:Nothing else than taking the Russians seriously and dealing with them accordingly will help, so I wonder if for how long Biden means to be the new sheriff in town aiming to differ from his predecessor as much as he can. Maybe he shouldn't keep it that way until November.


Hes doing exactly that-taking them seriously and dealing accordingly. Imagine self destructing for an alien people and culture on other side of the planet...Russians consider ukrainians brother peoples, little russians. Americans consider them a useful temporary pawn. Think hard about who will die for who.
#15213113
Igor Antunov wrote:Hes doing exactly that-taking them seriously and dealing accordingly. Imagine self destructing for an alien people and culture on other side of the planet...Russians consider ukrainians brother peoples, little russians. Americans consider them a useful temporary pawn. Think hard about who will die for who.

I was referring to Biden, not Zelensky.
#15213114
Well I'm not convinced we'll see any significant response by Russia to Ukrainian aggressions. But if we do, then we should tell Putin to confine any occupations / annexations to Luhansk, Donetsk, Kharkiv and Kherson and Zaporizhzihia south east of the Dnieper.

I don't think its going to happen but I would like to see NATO sending in the tanks and annexing Moldavia to Romania. I also wouldn't have a problem with them annexing all the territory west of the lower Dnister. NATO would then be able to support the annexation of Transnistria by the Ukraine, as partial compensation for their loss of territories in the East.
#15213161
Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem to me Putin is all that willing to invade, given this has been going on for quite a while now.

It seems to me he's aiming to force Ukraine to remain highly mobilized, which can actually be quite costly in the long run... And may actually push NATO to start giving economic aid to sustain the Ukrainian economy.
#15213164
wat0n wrote:Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem to me Putin is all that willing to invade, given this has been going on for quite a while now.

It seems to me he's aiming to force Ukraine to remain highly mobilized, which can actually be quite costly in the long run... And may actually push NATO to start giving economic aid to sustain the Ukrainian economy.


Very possible. In fact, Russia has continually said "we are not going to invade." They could very well be telling the truth here. That doesn't excuse Putins shit behavior, but they could actually be telling the truth.
#15213205
Igor Antunov wrote:Except in the case of Ukraine the exact opposite. The west destabilized ukraine like it attempted to ruin Russia in the 90's.


Russia destabilized because it had a shitty exploitative autocratic system that ultimately broke down. Unfortunately, Russia is making the same mistake again and also tries to impose its garbage on Ukraine.
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