[Tainari88]

I see the world "humiliation" used a lot in this thread. Tends to be used by right wingers. I wonder if there's some sort of study around the strategies and propaganda around the usage of this word. Of course, this word is part of the historical grievances (real and imaginary), but I wonder if there's something else there.

Pride is a big sin in many religions. People who never can say they are sorry or receive constructive criticism. You can't tell them the truth, can't criticize them with truth and you can't tell them to apologize if they offend others. For them that is humiliation. They do not know how to be humble. Admit fault and say they are sorry.

I have been married for 40 years next month. I got married at age 18. I am 58 years old now. 40 years.

What are the qualities that I have that made that marriage work? Not being prideful and knowing when you are in the wrong telling your husband you were wrong and he was right. And saying I am sorry about being wrong, doubting you, or not giving you the support you needed. It is not your fault. It is my fault. I take responsibility and how can we fix this and make it work? That must have saved my ass countless times in 40 years.

Another quality is not judging others harshly. Being hard on yourself and your own flaws and soft and lenient on the flaws of others. Especially your husband. Who the hell likes being judged harshly by the person you are married to? Judging hard people is terrible. Are you perfect? No. Then why do you expect perfection from your spouse? Who died and made you king or queen of the castle?

Details. Knowing how to make him or her feel good at being with you. You tell them their good points often and you give them positive feedback when they deserve it.

Communicate often and with sincerity. Do not hold grudges. Let the past stay in the past. Do you fight about something? You let the apology mean something and let the damn thing go. Do not drag the past into a new fight.

Fight clean. Do not get personal in some verbal fight. I do not understand women who belittle their husbands with horrible personalistic stuff while they are fighting. Calling them a limp dick, good-for-nothing bum, can't get it up, and useless, etc. And embarrass them in front of their families and co-workers and expect to be forgiven like nothing happened afterward. Your job is to preserve your husband's dignity at all times. At all times. You fail at that? You might as well get a divorce Rancid.

It is not much different for running nations. The people who are prideful and can't take responsibility for what goes wrong and are selfish assholes and have zero respect for the people in their own nation suffering? Kick their ass out of the leadership role. If they can't even do what a good spouse does in a decent marriage? How the hell are you going to pick them as a leader of nations eh?

[JohnRawls]

I think it's the so called "power of belief". The more strongly you believe in something, the more effort you will put into confirming it (i.e. confirmation bias, cherry picking, etc.). The degree to which we choose to believe certain things, directly plays into how far down a rabbit hole we are willing to go with it. We all fall into this, but some of us far more than others. Those of us that fall into this more than others, internalize it as a part of our very identity. Hence why it's so hard to let go of wild beliefs. Going back on a belief feels like turning your back on yourself.

One mechanism to defend these sort of beliefs is to create a sort of fake equivalence of ideas. All of a sudden, ideas that are not rooted in reality start to get equal weight as those that are. Hence, the deep state Nazi narrative (which is ridiculous) becomes as real as say, the military-industrial complex (which is a valid point). These ideas start to get blended to obfuscate the dumb shit ideas. This thread is loaded with shit like this, and this happens most with the far right and far left (which is what makes them so similar).

There's a lot of idea adjacency dishonesty going on here. Where you wrap a dumb shit, in reasonable shit, and pass it off as all 100% true and indisputable. This is how social media propaganda works as well. Lots of idea adjacency based manipulation. Often, in a slow boil form.



I don't think it is. Fighting bad information/belief with good/reasoned information, isn't enough. Ultimately these are narratives that are deeply believed, followed, and turn into an identity (see rah rah USA types in America as another example). Evidence alone, won't do it. I'm not sure what would.

Another example of htis, is this weird notion that many people on pofo have "Trump derangement syndrome" on pofo. As in, an obsession with Trump. Yet, the evidence doesn't bare this out. If this were true, we would see a new thread started about Trump on pofo every single day, because there is stuff going on with that guy and the Republican every single day that could easily be discussed and/or made fun of (I'm not even sure there is a thread on the criminal trial that starts tomorrow... so much for obsession). Still, the belief of this "Trump derangement syndrome" continues despite reality saying otherwise. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, it's belief at this point.

This is because these people have a religious like belief of these ideas. Reality doesn't matter anymore. The go too "defense" is also often "well you too". Which, is true to a point, but not to the ridiculous extent these people themselves go down. Again, an attempt to create false equivalence of wacky shit against more reasonable shit.



Nearly impossible.

The sad reality for now I suppose. We were in a similar situation when the Radio came out but humanity adapted somehow.

[Negotiator]

Why yes the human brain is a facinating thing.

To what degree people are abole to rationalize things that are obviously not true, because for some reason they want to believe, is always amazing to see.

We are amazingly illogical and irrational beings.



Anyway congrats to Ukraine and the US MIC, they got their 61 billion from the USA.

[paeng]

What a stupid thing to say. If it was bad news for Putin it would be band news for Russian as well. But this would only be good news for Ukrainians, if it led to a proper victory. All this aid may achieve is to delay Ukrainian nationalists rendezvous with reality. This aid may even help Putin in the long run making an eventual victory if it comes even more glorious for Russia and even more humiliating for NATO.

You mean non-stupid, then.

[Rancid]

The sad reality for now I suppose. We were in a similar situation when the Radio came out but humanity adapted somehow.

One key difference between the printing press, radio, and television, and social media is that social media is decentralized. The original belief was the open access to information like this would benefit us. I guess no one thought it would be loaded with garbage. Yes, time will tell if we can figure out how to adapt to this.

The Jewish Nazis are running amok.

[JohnRawls]

One key difference between the printing press, radio, and television, and social media is that social media is decentralized. The original belief was the open access to information like this would benefit us. I guess no one thought it would be loaded with garbage. Yes, time will tell if we can figure out how to adapt to this.

The Jewish Nazis are running amok.

Radio and printing press were also decentralised.

[Rich]

Biden's leadership on Ukraine has been disastrous. He has totally failed to set practical, realistic, achievable goals and then do what was necessary to achieve those goals, to force Russia to the peace table and accept a settlement in a timely fashion. He started by letting that blow hard Boris Johnson set the agenda.

Of course all the Liberal idiocy, including on this forum hasn't helped. Pathetic fantasies like The Ukrainians would fight with sticks and stones contribute to this narcissistic sense of western entitlement. The average age of a Ukrainian soldier is 43. Yes in 2022, a sizeable minority were eager to volunteer to fight. But even back in 2022, a lot of Ukrainian soldiers used their power and influence to avoid front line service. Much of the vaunted heroism of the Ukrainian army has consisted of manning check points hundreds of kilometres from any active war front.

Most Ukrainians are just like the western liberals. They demand total, unnegotiated allout victory, but expect someoneelse to actually lay down their lives to fight it. The decent Republicans who voted down the Ukraine aid bill are to be praised for their honesty. This aid is merely to prospone facing up to reality till after the November elections.Joe Biden is an evil man, who is cynically happy to send thousands upon thousands of Ukrainian men to their deaths in order to prop up his reelection chances.

[Rugoz]

Biden's leadership on Ukraine has been disastrous. He has totally failed to set practical, realistic, achievable goals and then do what was necessary to achieve those goals, to force Russia to the peace table and accept a settlement in a timely fashion. He started by letting that blow hard Boris Johnson set the agenda.

Johnson, lol. That dumb conspiracy, again. If anything, Biden and Scholz are setting the agenda. I don't think the goal, namely to prevent Russia from winning, is not achievable. However, I'm not convinced it's a necessary or even the best strategy to avoid nuclear war.

The average age of a Ukrainian soldier is 43.

Partly because the minimum conscription age has been 27. Though I imagine front line soldiers to be younger than 43.

This aid is merely to prospone facing up to reality till after the November elections.

What reality are you even talking about. You certainly live in your own .

[JohnRawls]

Biden's leadership on Ukraine has been disastrous. He has totally failed to set practical, realistic, achievable goals and then do what was necessary to achieve those goals, to force Russia to the peace table and accept a settlement in a timely fashion. He started by letting that blow hard Boris Johnson set the agenda.

Of course all the Liberal idiocy, including on this forum hasn't helped. Pathetic fantasies like The Ukrainians would fight with sticks and stones contribute to this narcissistic sense of western entitlement. The average age of a Ukrainian soldier is 43. Yes in 2022, a sizeable minority were eager to volunteer to fight. But even back in 2022, a lot of Ukrainian soldiers used their power and influence to avoid front line service. Much of the vaunted heroism of the Ukrainian army has consisted of manning check points hundreds of kilometres from any active war front.

Most Ukrainians are just like the western liberals. They demand total, unnegotiated allout victory, but expect someoneelse to actually lay down their lives to fight it. The decent Republicans who voted down the Ukraine aid bill are to be praised for their honesty. This aid is merely to prospone facing up to reality till after the November elections.Joe Biden is an evil man, who is cynically happy to send thousands upon thousands of Ukrainian men to their deaths in order to prop up his reelection chances.

The fact that you are mentioning Johnson due to the conspiracy theory reasons shows that you know litterally nothing. You didn't even read the Stambul proposals. Go out and read them. Any sane side would not accept them. What Russia asked from Ukraine was capitulation basically with the intention to repeat the invasion on far, far, far,far more favourable terms.

No seriously, how can you even mention Johnson without even knowing what were the final Istambul terms? So what were they Rich? List me the terms.

[Rancid]

Radio and printing press were also decentralised.

Caca. Sure. Not as decentralized, or at least, not as easy for the typical person to communicate whatever they want. Like, I can't get on the radio right now and say random shit, but I can do that on social media.

[JohnRawls]

Caca. Sure. Not as decentralized, or at least, not as easy for the typical person to communicate whatever they want. Like, I can't get on the radio right now and say random shit, but I can do that on social media.

MMM i Guess. Its definately easier to broadcast your view with internet + mobile phone instead of a two way radio. Plus the platforms are designed for it and to spread instead of just being a broadcast in to nowhere. I don't know, its hard to say about decentralisation but I do see how its easier nowadays compared to previous ages.

[Rancid]

MMM i Guess. Its definately easier to broadcast your view with internet + mobile phone instead of a two way radio. Plus the platforms are designed for it and to spread instead of just being a broadcast in to nowhere. I don't know, its hard to say about decentralisation but I do see how its easier nowadays compared to previous ages.

ok ok ok, here's a real key difference. Algorithms that curate what people are exposed to at an individual level. Which means we can all be put into our own information bubbles.

Example, this war. If you just take in whatever you are given on social media (without thinking), you can easily be convinced that Kyiv will fall in a few days, or that Ukraine will march on Moscow.

[Rich]

The fact that you are mentioning Johnson due to the conspiracy theory reasons shows that you know litterally nothing. You didn't even read the Stambul proposals. Go out and read them. Any sane side would not accept them. What Russia asked from Ukraine was capitulation basically with the intention to repeat the invasion on far, far, far,far more favourable terms.

No seriously, how can you even mention Johnson without even knowing what were the final Istambul terms? So what were they Rich? List me the terms.

I didn't say anything about Istanbul terms the fact that you and @Rugoz are so moronic that you see conspiracy theories every where is not my problem. I'm dealing with known facts. Boris johnson was Prime minister of Britain fighting for his political life. A politician known for his dishonesty and lack of principle who had written a book called "The Churchill Factor". The idea that Boris Johnson decided which side to back in the EU Referendum based on the interests of his political career rather than the interests of the country is not some fringe extremist notion, but the consensus view of political observers in Britain.

OK let me try and explain this to the Liberal morons, the idea that Boris Johnson would seek to use the crisis of the Special military Operation to save his political position rather considering the long term interests of Ukrainians, Europeans, the West or the world in general is not some big over arching conspiracy theory, it doesn't require one to believe in aliens, flat earth or Q-Anon. The suggestion that Biden chose to lead from the rear on Ukraine in 2022, similar to Obama and Libya is also not some wild extremist analysis.

[Rugoz]

What is moronic is to suggest that Ukraine would do whatever the fuck Johnson thinks it should do.

[Negotiator]

Radio and printing press were also decentralised.

I dont know about other countries, but thats neither true for the current USA nor for current Germany.

Back in the 1960s there was a famous statement of a leading journalist that even back then only 200 people controlled basically all of germanys news. Nowadays its like six families in total. In many areas of Germany, you can only buy local news from ONE source (by ownership, not by the name).

And in the USA thanks to president Clinton, journalism was massively centralized and only three big companies control the vast majority of it.

And even a lot of alternative media is already controlled by billionaires, too.

[Negotiator]

Most Ukrainians are just like the western liberals.

Based on what ? The country is at war. Its pretty much impossible to get an even removely objective picture of actual ukrainian opinion.

[litwin]

GUYS have you watched Professor of History at Yale University T Snyder´s video ? Brilliant analysis, why ‘defeat’ ends up being good for ‘empires’, and the rest of us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Snyder

[Tainari88]

@litwin I agree that imperialism means losing wars and accepting losing wars for the Empire engaged in these wars for conquest.

What I do not like about you is thinking that the USA and its imperialism and shit policies in their side of the world i.e. in Latin America is ACCEPTABLE and good and the Russian imperialism is the only autocratic shit in the world. You are wrong about that mentality.

You are also wrong thinking I back autocratic authoritarian shit regimes. I never have.

What you think the Latin American left is? IS WRONG. 100%. But since all is black and white simplistic thinking in your world litwin you will be wrong on backing a US that is abusive in Latin America.

You will be the useful you know what you love to describe and ascribe.

Do not be.

All imperialism is about losing.

Do not try to control the inner workings of other societies. It is not only counterproductive but useless. Much better is to be again, fair and humane and trustworthy with other nations through human and consistent decent foreign policy initiatives. Wars, manipulations, undermining due to wanting to control and be increasingly wealthy and neglecting the people in your own nation's need in order for some oligarchic fools to control everything at the expense of the masses is asking for massive collapse down the road.

It is obvious.

The Yale professor is right on that. But the problem is the people in the ex-colonies of the USSR who hate the Russians do not see the problem with human behavior in all nations pursuing Empire. Too blinded by love of American slick propaganda. They are brainwashed. They should be better at critical thinking.

[Rich]

What is moronic is to suggest that Ukraine would do whatever the fuck Johnson thinks it should do.

Yet again who suggested that?

Public opinion in Ukraine was inevitably highly hawkish. Zelensky was an unpopular leader who risked being forced out before his term expired. I doubt he was keen to be seen to be responsible for what could be seen by many as capitulation to Russia, even as treachery. The bullshit by Johnson and other western leaders completely undermined Ukraine's leasers ability to compromise. When western leaders are saying we'll give you what ever you need for as along as it takes, how can any Ukrainian leader refuse the offer to get all their 2014 land back, to get reparations to pay for all the damage done in the war and the satisfaction of seeing Putin and all the other Russian leaders and generals spend the rest of their lives in a western prison.

[Tainari88]

Yet again who suggested that?

Public opinion in Ukraine was inevitably highly hawkish. Zelensky was an unpopular leader who risked being forced out before his term expired. I doubt he was keen to be seen to be responsible for what could be seen by many as capitulation to Russia, even as treachery. The bullshit by Johnson and other western leaders completely undermined Ukraine's leasers ability to compromise. When western leaders are saying we'll give you what ever you need for as along as it takes, how can any Ukrainian leader refuse the offer to get all their 2014 land back, to get reparations to pay for all the damage done in the war and the satisfaction of seeing Putin and all the other Russian leaders and generals spend the rest of their lives in a western prison.

What was Boris Johnson doing with Zelenskyy Rich?

Why would Johnson want to be there talking it up with the Ukrainians?

What possible advantage to the UK Tory party was that deal about? I happen to think that the Americans wanted him to be the gopher for them. Is that the reason?