[Cookie Monster]

Sanctions are not going to get removed irrelevant if there is piece or not in Ukraine. The sanctions will get removed when the Putin regime falls. And even at that I am not sure it will be that smooth.

Russians and some commentators are really delusional to think that Ukraine will have a friendly relationship between the people of Russia and Ukraine or the sanctions will be removed by the West if peace is concluded. There is no way to get back pre-war since so much blood has been shed, so many people died, Russia revealed itself to be a monster, a savage, a Hun in the eyes of most in Europe.

This is an interesting point. So far sanctions have been aimed against Russia in relation to its occupation of Ukraine. POTUS explicitly clarified that it isn't aimed at regime change in Russia. Otherwise it would pretty much deny Russia a way out (until Putin kicks the bucket). However, one issue that will linger on if/when Russia fully retreats is reparations. Western countries have been pressing for Russia's full accountability, freezing assets and exploring possibilities to use Russian frozen assets for reparations to Ukraine. Usually such action is done post-conflict. As first steps are taking now, this may narrow incentives for Russia to give up, the Kremlin will become even more cornered and isolated (virtually amounting to a regime change pressure as those assets mostly belong to his (former) billionaire supporters).

https://iwpr.net/global-voices/route-ru ... eparations

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023 ... ally-dodgy

[Cookie Monster]

Not to worry, the War will be over by Christmas. We’ll be marching through the streets of Berlin Moscow before you know it!

It's not 1914 anymore, we have progressed, in this age we would say that the War will be over before the holidays. For the sake of inclusivity, it's a global event after all.

[JohnRawls]

This is an interesting point. So far sanctions have been aimed against Russia in relation to its occupation of Ukraine. POTUS explicitly clarified that it isn't aimed at regime change in Russia. Otherwise it would pretty much deny Russia a way out (until Putin kicks the bucket). However, one issue that will linger on if/when Russia fully retreats is reparations. Western countries have been pressing for Russia's full accountability, freezing assets and exploring possibilities to use Russian frozen assets for reparations to Ukraine. Usually such action is done post-conflict. As first steps are taking now, this may narrow incentives for Russia to give up, the Kremlin will become even more cornered and isolated (virtually amounting to a regime change pressure as those assets mostly belong to his (former) billionaire supporters).

https://iwpr.net/global-voices/route-ru ... eparations

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023 ... ally-dodgy

I can see sanctions getting removed IF Russia retreats from all territories including Crimea along with paying reparations to Ukraine. But we all know it is not going to happen out of the kind heart of Putins regime. They need to be forced by circumstances or militarily for this.

[Wels]

We will see. Putin will not accept any peace deal, or if just to buy time and come back in 5-10 years.
Ukraine will not accept it due to the latter.
Anybody really thinks Russia will be allowed to the international table after this stunt? After what was said publicly in russian tv, after what most russians obviously think and want? Don't hold your breath.
Imho this is pure nazism, and it can only be stopped like it was at the end of WW2.

[JohnRawls]

Hmm information is flooding in that Russians are blowing up smaller Dams in the South near Melitopol and Kherson by the looks of it. May be its due to Kahovka Dam but the water level in the South is rising. Will need to see a bit more and wait.

[Politics_Observer]

Sounds like it was part of an intentional and willful Russian plan to blow up those Ukrainian dams. Obviously, it was no accident.

[litwin]

Scandinavia does not belong in the same list as Poland and UK.

The countries with a widely held most negative view of Russia included Poland (net negative 87%), Ukraine (80%), Portugal (79%), Italy (65%), UK (65%), Sweden (77%), US (62%) and Germany (62%).

[noemon]

The countries with a widely held most negative view of Russia included Poland (net negative 87%), Ukraine (80%), Portugal (79%), Italy (65%), UK (65%), Sweden (77%), US (62%) and Germany (62%).

Italy, Germany and Spain are so pro-Russian institutionally, they might as well be counted as Russian allies.

Sweden does not belong in the same category as Poland & the Baltics whose entire nationalism is based on being anti-Russian and Sweden is not the type of country that throws wrenches in peace talks, nor is it the type of country that plays the game. Sweden is still waiting for Turkish NATO approval and you believe that Sweden will stand up to the US, Germany, France, when they decide that the war has run its course?

In the greater scheme of things, the developments in Asia will soon overshadow both Ukraine and Russia, if they haven't already and as long as Russia is shown to be weak it wil no longer be a priority.

[litwin]

[litwin]

Italy, Germany and Spain are so pro-Russian institutionally, they might as well be counted as Russian allies.

Sweden does not belong in the same category as Poland & the Baltics whose entire nationalism is based on being anti-Russian and Sweden is not the type of country that throws wrenches in peace talks, nor is it the type of country that plays the game. Sweden is still waiting for Turkish NATO approval and you believe that Sweden will stand up to the US, Germany, France, when they decide that the war has run its course?

In the greater scheme of things, the developments in Asia will soon overshadow both Ukraine and Russia, if they haven't already and as long as Russia is shown to be weak it wil no longer be a priority.

Germany :
https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/auss ... ty/2513994

when it comes to Sweden, Sweden is the most anti- Moscow country in Europe , historically. Today maybe second only to Finland .

[litwin]

PS waits you all Moscow imperialists :lol:

[Politics_Observer]

@noemon @Szabo

I think after the Russians blew up those dams in Ukraine, the US should start supplying long range weapons to Ukraine that can reach Russian territory with no restrictions placed upon Ukraine on how they choose to use them.

[Szabo]

@Politics_Observer

You’ve got balls man. Me and my mates have made a promise if the war with permanent security guarantees ends with Russia controlling no more than what they do now, with the exception of the rest of maybe Donbas (that’s at the very most), we’re coming to America, going to rent out a bunch of motorcycles and ride the entire length of the continental United States, and shake hands with whoever supported us. Drinks on us as a thank you.

[Politics_Observer]

@Szabo

First off, Russia has knowingly, willfully, and intentionally targeted Ukrainian civilians since the beginning of this war. Now, they have opted to blow up a massive water dam that has caused untold destruction and set Ukraine back several decades. This water dam destruction is also a biological weapon in that it will spread some serious and dangerous diseases to the rest of the Ukrainian population. Therefore, I view blowing up this water dam as a serious escalation on the part of the Russians.

They didn't use nukes, so, it wouldn't warrant a direct NATO military intervention in response. However, they did use to what amounts to a biological weapon by destroying that dam. It is perfectly justifiable and reasonable to therefore supply Ukraine with long range weapons capable of reaching inside Russian territory and lift restrictions placed upon Ukraine on their use. If Russia doesn't like it, their bitch asses know where to find us Americans, and we will be glad to oblige them.

[Szabo]

@Szabo

I didn’t want to believe it at first. Because I didn’t want to believe that anyone could be that much of a monster but after speaking to a lot of engineers and experts, they all conclude that there’s no way you can destroy a dam like that from the outside. of these Soviet dams were specifically made after World War II to withstand a hell of a lot of bombing. Therefore, I don’t see how it could have been anyone, except the Russians intentionally blowing it up.

The only other explanation is like some here said, that it was due to a lack of maintenance. But it’s a weak theory.

It’s absolutely horrendous. In either case it’s their responsibility because they were controlling it. It just goes to show that they don’t consider Ukrainians under occupation, as people, but an inferior race of little Russians , of expendables.

[Politics_Observer]

@Szabo

Piss on them. It's time to give the Ukrainians the long range weapons without any restrictions on their use that they have long asked for.

[Potemkin]

@Szabo

First off, Russia has knowingly, willfully, and intentionally targeted Ukrainian civilians since the beginning of this war.

So did we, during WWII. And even more recently, in Falluja and elsewhere. In fact, when haven’t we intentionally targeted civilians in our wars?

Now, they have opted to blow up a massive water dam that has caused untold destruction and set Ukraine back several decades.

Never heard of the ‘Dambusters’?

This water dam destruction is also a biological weapon in that it will spread some serious and dangerous diseases to the rest of the Ukrainian population. Therefore, I view blowing up this water dam as a serious escalation on the part of the Russians.

Blowing up a dam (assuming they were stupid enough to do it, which I can easily believe), is not the same as using biological or chemical weapons, either factually or legally.

They didn't use nukes, so, it wouldn't warrant a direct NATO military intervention in response. However, they did use to what amounts to a biological weapon by destroying that dam. It is perfectly justifiable and reasonable to therefore supply Ukraine with long range weapons capable of Russian inside territory and lift restrictions placed upon Ukraine on their use. If Russia doesn't like it, their bitch asses knows where to find us Americans and we will be glad to oblige them.

Thankfully, you’re not in charge of the West’s military and political strategy.

[Szabo]

@Potemkin

@Potemkin

Yo comrade. I’ve got a serious question since you seem to have studied Russia and the Soviet union in General.

Do you believe controlling Ukraine, and the Crimea in specific is important enough to the Russians, that they’re willing to bring an end to the world for it?

[Potemkin]

@Potemkin

@Potemkin

Yo comrade. I’ve got a serious question since you seem to have studied Russia and the Soviet union in General.

Do you believe controlling Ukraine, and the Crimea in specific is important enough to the Russians, that they’re willing to bring an end to the world for it?

It would not be rational for them to do that, no. But how rational do you think the current Russian leadership are, right now? We’re talking Nazi Germany in 1945 levels of paranoia and hate here. Putin in particular almost certainly genuinely believes that losing Crimea in particular would mean losing his job, which likely would mean also losing his head. Even losing Donbas could spell the end for him. Would he be willing to take the rest of the world with him? You be the judge.

[JohnRawls]

Italy, Germany and Spain are so pro-Russian institutionally, they might as well be counted as Russian allies.

Sweden does not belong in the same category as Poland & the Baltics whose entire nationalism is based on being anti-Russian and Sweden is not the type of country that throws wrenches in peace talks, nor is it the type of country that plays the game. Sweden is still waiting for Turkish NATO approval and you believe that Sweden will stand up to the US, Germany, France, when they decide that the war has run its course?

In the greater scheme of things, the developments in Asia will soon overshadow both Ukraine and Russia, if they haven't already and as long as Russia is shown to be weak it wil no longer be a priority.

Usually I would say yes, but opinions have shifted from 30% negative for Russia to 60%+ in those countries over the last 1 year and a bit. Italy a bit worse but Germany is now more anti-Russian than Poland pre-war If I am not mistaken.