[Wels]

Putin has repeatedly said that he fears invasion from NATO. Can anyone here point to any reason, before Russia attacked an sovereign nation, that NATO countries would want to invade Russia. A large nuclear power?

^ No one is interested in attacking Russia. At least this was the case prior to february 2022...
Meanwhile there is the full legal right internationally to fight against Russia in the war against Ukraine, since Kyiv gave up its nuclear weapons in return for the Russian pledge of respect for Ukrainian territorial integrity.
So fighting against Russia on the territory of Ukraine is perfectly ok by international law even with boots on the ground.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/has-r ... gnty-55185

[Rugoz]

Doesn't sound very happy.

@QatzelOk doesn't understand the irony of his own posts,actions, and claims. With Qatz, anything he denounces, he's either doing himself, or supporting in some form of fashion.

It always astonishes me when a Pofoer feel the need to constantly lie and bullshit. It's a freaking internet forum that probably few people visit, so what's the point?

[Potemkin]

Doesn't sound very happy.




It always astonishes me when a Pofoer feel the need to constantly lie and bullshit. It's a freaking internet forum that probably few people visit, so what's the point?

Why do people play office politics, and lie and manipulate and backstab each other? It seems that the less there is at stake, the more vicious the infighting becomes. In fact, the infighting and jostling for status is so vicious precisely because there is so little at stake. The smaller a pond becomes as it dries out, the more vicious the fish become….

[Independent_Srpska]

Oh, boy ...is this US expert a traitor or what?! Abandoning wet dreams, publicly?!

But he perfectly quotes "successes of Ukrainian proxy effort" just like the famous bloodthirsty keyboard NATO fanboy club - Rancid, Drlee, Patrickov

Longer version:

[JohnRawls]

Your post has 3 Likes, despite the fact this just wrong. Russia has continued to make advances, not just back and forth. It recently captured the village of Travneve north of Horvlika to give just one example. Perhaps Russian advances are at an even slower pace than before, but so far the Russian advance has been inexorable. The set backs from the advances towards Kiev and around Kharkov were significant and embarrassing for Russia's leadership, but they did not reverse the overall direction of travel

We're now well into August, month after month, after month you and other posters have predicted the immanent collapse of the Russian army. It just hasn't happened. Is it perhaps not time to make a reconciliation with reality?

And how many villages did Ukraine free in the same time? Capturing a village and then loosing it and then capturing again is a definition of back and forward. No strategic targets are under any real threat and same goes for any operation level targets by the looks of it. Most theaters are pretty stable right now and nothing close to lisichansk-severodonetsk is happeneing. And even that is just an operation level success, not even a strategic one.

To win a war, you have to achieve your STRATEGIC objectives but I am not sure how capturing and loosing villages helps you achieve operational objectives and I am not talking even about strategic ones.

Look at Vietnam or Afghanistan as a history lesson. US won most if not all battles in both countries while Russia can barely hold a stalemate right now. Did the US win in any of those countries? Well why not? May be because it could never transform those victories on tactical or operational levels in to strategic goals.

Now look at more defined military conflicts like WW2, the allies won because they took Berlin and Hitler shot himself while destroying the NAZI military and its industry so it could no longer continue fighting. Russia had a clearly defined strategic objective at the start to conquer 80% of Ukraine, get rid of Zelenski and the ruling elite, replace them with puppets but they failed so they started thinking of some more "looser" objectives like hold territory or capture Luhansk and Donetsk but once again, this is not a strategic objective and hence the Russian military is impotent. There is no clear view on how to end this war for the Russians because capturing Luhansk oblast or Donetsk oblast doesn't end the war. Ukraine will just continue fighting if that happens.

And no amount of small village taking and loosing will ever fix this.

[ingliz]

Ukraine will just continue fighting if that happens.

I doubt it.

The artillery war in the Donbas is having “a seriously demoralising effect on Ukrainian forces as well as a very real material effect; cases of desertion are growing every week.”

See:Ukraine forces outgunned up to 40 to one by Russian forces, intelligence report reveals

[Rugoz]

@Rich Calm down Richie boy. Keep your ADHD in check.

I doubt it.

The artillery war in the Donbas is having “a seriously demoralising effect on Ukrainian forces as well as a very real material effect; cases of desertion are growing every week.”

See:Ukraine forces outgunned up to 40 to one by Russian forces, intelligence report reveals

That article is literally from 2 months ago.

[Negotiator]

Ugh.

First thing that dies in every war is the truth.

You listen to both sides and then you still dont know the truth, thats the reality in war. Every war, not just this one.

So the happiness with which so many people believe in their respective propaganda is nerve wrecking.

Other than that, all you can actually rely upon is data that was collected before the war, or is collected independent of the war. Like for example the value of the Rubel vs the value of the Euro. Which is quite telling.

That recent interview with the russian US ambassador however, he said that Russia will now move the front line forward, because the west gave Ukraine long range weapons and thus to protect the Donbas the frontline has to be moved forward. Thats interesting, we'll see if that happends. Thanks to satelites etc we can see the front line pretty accurately.

[ingliz]

That article is literally from 2 months ago.

What does that matter?

The situation is so bad now that Ukrainian forces have taken to deliberately using civilians as human shields.

In a news release that accompanied the report's publication, Amnesty International Secretary-general Agnes Callamard said the organization had “documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas.

— CNBC News 6 Aug 2022

[Rugoz]

What does that matter?

The situation today is already completely different than 2 months ago.

Listen to a podcast on this war or something. You have no fucking idea what's going on.

[JohnRawls]

What does that matter?

The situation is so bad now that Ukrainian forces have taken to deliberately using civilians as human shields.

In a news release that accompanied the report's publication, Amnesty International Secretary-general Agnes Callamard said the organization had “documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas.

— CNBC News 6 Aug 2022

If you ask this then you literally have no clue. Also that number is a lie by the Ukrainian side. (The Russian 40 to 1 advantage)

[Negotiator]

The situation is so bad now that Ukrainian forces have taken to deliberately using civilians as human shields.

I strongly doubt thats actually a new development, though. And we've seen that happen in many wars. It serves the own propaganda.

[Potemkin]

I strongly doubt thats actually a new development, though. And we've seen that happen in many wars. It serves the own propaganda.

In modern asymmetric warfare, civilians are a military asset. Any group fighting for its survival would be crazy not to make use of that military asset.

[JohnRawls]

In modern asymmetric warfare, civilians are a military asset. Any group fighting for its survival would be crazy not to make use of that military asset.

Actually its worse. Using civilians as shields is something that happens during every war because you need to position your troops somewhere and any house is a place where civilians are technically with some exceptions. No country in a state of war has a military base to house all of its military personal in every part of its country. Hence the things like this happen.

[Rancid]

Where's @Igor Antunov? How is Russia winning the war that they've already lost strategically?

[Independent_Srpska]

Actually its worse. Using civilians as shields is something that happens during every war because you need to position your troops somewhere and any house is a place where civilians are technically with some exceptions. No country in a state of war has a military base to house all of its military personal in every part of its country. Hence the things like this happen.

Useful tactics in some situations...causing and exploiting sympathy of allies...it was useful in Bosnian civil war , when the public opinion in NATO countries had to be directed towards military intervention against way weaker opponent. Bosnian Muslims were using the same tactics (of course, advised by the US operatives) , or even bombed themselves thus staging false flag events.


In Ukrainian situation, it is very stupid sacrifice of her own citizens, since the opponent is not way weaker, and opinion in NATO allies has been already formed, yet NATO will not intervene.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... civilians/

August 4, 2022
Ukraine: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians

- Military bases set up in residential areas including schools and hospitals
- Attacks launched from populated civilian areas
-Such violations in no way justify Russia’s indiscriminate attacks, which have killed and injured countless civilians

Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February, Amnesty International said today.
Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets. The ensuing Russian strikes in populated areas have killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure.

[Skynet]

The Ukrainians are weaker they have to use dirty tactics... war is so.

[Rancid]

All of this wouldn't be happening if Putin didn't invade. People seem to forget this key point. Probably because they're morons.

[Independent_Srpska]

All of this wouldn't be happening if Putin didn't invade. People seem to forget this key point. Probably because they're morons.

Putin would never start Special Operation if Kiev hadn't been killing innocent people for 8 years.
Some people tend to ignore 13.000 deads, probably because they're are insensitive idiots.

[Rancid]

Putin would never start Special Operation if Kiev hadn't been killing innocent people for 8 years.

A complete lie. YOu're the only person on the internet that continues with this lie.

As far as I can tell, Putin is off this lie as well and on to the next series of lies. You need to catch up with your dear leader. Fucking weasel.