Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15213406
Igor Antunov wrote:Summary: Putin outlines the reason why Ukraine is about to be deleted. Lenin (and to lesser extent Stalin) fucked up Russian territory just to appease outside nationalist so bolsheviks could stay in power. He says it is time to fix this mistake because Ukraine is rightful Russian Clay.



In other words, he's clinging to historical bullshit. Literally, stuck in the past.
#15213433
Rancid wrote:In other words, he's clinging to historical bullshit. Literally, stuck in the past.


Not being grounded in the past is dangerous. A country is built on the past, if it is to continue it must recognize its foundations and work with them.

A very good example of why abandoning tradition is destructive can be seen in familial piety and marriage. In the west that has been largely destroyed, and predictably the west is rapidly declining because something so foundational and important is no longer in play.
#15213437
Igor Antunov wrote:
Not being grounded in the past is dangerous. A country is built on the past, if it is to continue it must recognize its foundations and work with them.

A very good example of why abandoning tradition is destructive can be seen in familial piety and marriage. In the west that has been largely destroyed, and predictably the west is rapidly declining because something so foundational and important is no longer in play.



Empires never last.
#15213440
No they don't last forever but the Imperial core if preserved can be a way to cycle empires, making them rise again. Russia is such a center of power, as is China. I see such cores in France/Germany, Iran, India and Turkey. That's it. No other cores exist. North America will end up like south America (stunted by lack of a mono culture). Africa is a non-factor.

Meanwhile, the Duma has clarified what the boundaries of the newly recognized republics entail. This puts incoming Russian forces in direct confrontation with Kiev.
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#15213443
The problem I see is that there are historical fault lines running across Ukraine, where the Western, more catholic-protestant culture met the Eastern russian-orthodox.
Ukraine was always a bridge of sorts, not belonging entirely to either. That ill-advised attempt by the West to pull Ukraine over to their side resulted in the ill-advised Russian reaction and the current situation.
Quiet frankly, it is hard to see how this can be easily defused. For the West the time to concede to Russian demands without looking like push-overs has long passed. And for Russia, just packing up and going home after building up all this military would make them look foolish as well.
This reminds me a lot of the "war is inevitable" attitude prior to WW1.
#15213446
I think there is too much myopia on the part of the west in regards to REPEAT Russian demands over the years. They essentially state that nato expansion east either stops or russia starts taking concrete action. For example another red line for Russia is Finland, now the Us is goading Finland to join NATO. Putin has said this is not happening, he even mentioned Finland being a needless Lenin creation in his address last night. So you could expect a similar invasion there. All because the west (aka US) won't listen presumably because it thinks its tenuous global order is actually sustainable in the face of a resurgent Russia and rapidly growing China (it isn't).
Last edited by Igor Antunov on 22 Feb 2022 09:52, edited 1 time in total.
#15213447
I love how Putin openly says Ukraine has no right to exist as a country.

Here we have it, and the Russiophiles look like idiots (except Igor, who is the only honest one I guess).

Either way, no change to the de facto status quo so far..
#15213449
Rugoz wrote:Either way, no change to the de facto status quo so far..


Wat? The status quo of the last 8 years (frozen conflict in eastern Ukraine) has changed entirely. It is no longer frozen and will expand.

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They have chosen....waaaaaaagh
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#15213453
So the whole encirclement of Ukraine was in order to militarily secure the quasi-annexation of the Donbas combined with a penetration of Russian troops, which is, of course, an act of war again actually, whereas with his latest public history lesson Putin declared Russia's (historic and imperialistic) demand for the whole of Ukraine basically. I wonder if it only counts as a small incursion President Biden happened to refer to.
#15213454
And if Putin gets away with this I have 10 $ saying that China will try this with Taiwan next. They build up their navy with the express goal of being able to conduct a maritime invasion on Taiwan by 2027, and Chinas stated goal for the 100th birthday of the CCP in 2049 is "China #1, and under one rule".
#15213456
Ask me how I know Ukraine is about to lose its entire coastline and that Moldova is going to be annexed?



Syria has recognized the two breakaway republics.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/2 ... ay-regions

Beren wrote:Ukraine Says Will Consider Cutting Ties With Russia

I wonder if they'll ask the German government to do so first. :lol:

However, Scholz Says Germany Suspending Nord Stream 2, so the Germans are still faster and more decisive with doing their own part.


Nord 1 is still operating. Nord 2 isn't pumping gas, its approval has been merely paused, it's going nowhere. Can be unpaused and pumped full of gas at any time. So Germany has done exactly 0 thus far. If it was serious it would stop all Russian gas imports.

Also...Americans tell Europe not to buy from Russia....America buys oil from Russia....America sells Russian oil to Europe. Now watch them do the same with Gas.

They did it to Australia too with China.
#15213477
Igor Antunov wrote:America buys oil from Russia....America sells Russian oil to Europe. Now watch them do the same with Gas.

They did it to Australia too with China.



Actually both are justifiable if such trade made China and Russia earn less than directly selling to the third country.

But first thing first... where is your evidence?
#15213543
Kommersant (English translation) on 17.12.2018. wrote:Recognition of the DPR and LPR and the war with Ukraine

- Are you proposing to recognize the DPR and LPR? The minister [Lavrov] asked journalist Daria Aslamova.

"Of course," she replied.

- And then?

"And then we defend our territory, which we recognized.

- And you want to lose the rest of Ukraine? - the minister said. - Leave it to the Nazis?

- No, I believe that the Nazi regime should be fought in general. They imposed martial law against us. They attack our ships.

"We will not go to war with Ukraine, I promise you this," the minister assured, adding that he "does not imagine" a declaration of war and that this would be a manifestation of a "nervous breakdown and weakness."

However, Lavrov was the first one "given floor" by Putin yesterday. :lol:

#15213546
Rancid wrote:Looks like Putin is holding back on sending in troops into the stolen lands that belong to Ukraine.


The land belongs to its people. If they don't want to be part of a Ukraine that persecutes them, then why should they?
#15213552
Politics_Observer wrote:@annatar1914

That's stolen land that belongs to Ukraine, not Russia or any sort of Russian supported proxy forces.


Those are the people who actually live there, who you dehumanize by the language you use. It's their land, and they're done with Fascists shooting at them. Your hypocrisy and hatred is both contemptible and abominable, but sadly all too expected by now.
#15213553
annatar1914 wrote:
Those are the people who actually live there, who you dehumanize by the language you use. It's their land, and they're done with Fascists shooting at them. Your hypocrisy and hatred is both contemptible and abominable, but sadly all too expected by now.



Ironic.

When Putin was killing them before the previous invasion, was that humanising?

You need propaganda that's at least vaguely plausible.

That way maybe Putin wouldn't haven't needed Spetnaz in unmarked Russian uniforms.
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