Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15213624
annatar1914 wrote:"So many levels ", you say? Interesting that you choose to go into invective first then, instead of countering the points I made.


There's too much bullshit in that sentence to unpack. If that is not obvious to you, there's no point.
#15213625
Igor Antunov wrote:Only two people I didn't see as servile in that exchange were Shoygu and Medvedev.

Medvedev even dared oppose or criticise Putin somehow saying "Russian means much more than Ukraine" to the international community, for which he was given the finger.

#15213626
Admin Notes: Trolling whataboutism will not be tolerated in the Ukraine-Russia conflict in any thread.

All trolls blaming the west with historical grievances for Putin's totally unprovoked invasion against the Ukraine will be banned with no questions asked.

If you do not like it you know where the door is.

Fair warning provided.
#15213627
If you mean to imply this is happening in a vacuum devoid of NATO which is specifically set up to contain Russia on behalf of the US, then we have to ignore half the equation in any argument. It's not realistic to ignore the Russian side of the argument. 50% of Russians support Putins action: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/202 ... poll-intl/

Even a majority with decisive yes/no answers support outright annexation of Ukraine. I presume due to historical reasons as they see them. The western perspective regarding Ukraine is probably more alien and opportunistic to Ukrainians than the Russian one.

If we have to dance around the Russian perspective then this becomes just another seething/coping support thread. Got enough of that courtesy of the mainstream media. Putin is not a comic book villain, he has his support base whom he tries to appease, it's significantly larger than what most western parties enjoy.
#15213630
Politics_Observer wrote:To think otherwise is simply naive.

It wasn't going to happen.

The United States stated explicitly that it opposed any possibility of independent control over nuclear armaments by non-Russian republics. U.S. Secretary of State James Baker insisted that Soviet nuclear weapons remain under “safe, responsible and reliable control with a single unified authority.” [...] The United States granted Ukraine diplomatic recognition only after such unified control was formally preserved in the form of the Joint Strategic Command (JSC) of the newly created Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS).


— Arms Control Association


:)

* The Arms Control Association is a United States-based nonpartisan membership organization founded in 1971, with the self-stated mission of "promoting public understanding of and support for effective arms control policies."
#15213634
Igor Antunov wrote:In case some of you missed it, my favourite moment of the security council meeting.



People are saying this was all prerecorded therefore it's all acting. But that would mean the spy chief is a grade-A actor, which is possible, he has decades of experience in the KGB. Still, that fear seems genuine. Hard to act that out. Chadputin inspires fear in his minions, clearly.

Image

Only two people I didn't see as servile in that exchange were Shoygu and Medvedev. They too are scary.


You have an odd concept and obsession with masculinity. I assume you are a 30-something, and this is odd for a 30-something.
#15213635
Igor Antunov wrote:If you mean to imply this is happening in a vacuum devoid of NATO which is specifically set up to contain Russia on behalf of the US, then we have to ignore half the equation in any argument. It's not realistic to ignore the Russian side of the argument. 50% of Russians support Putins action: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/202 ... poll-intl/

Even a majority with decisive yes/no answers support outright annexation of Ukraine. I presume due to historical reasons as they see them. The western perspective regarding Ukraine is probably more alien and opportunistic to Ukrainians than the Russian one.

If we have to dance around the Russian perspective then this becomes just another seething/coping support thread. Got enough of that courtesy of the mainstream media. Putin is not a comic book villain, he has his support base whom he tries to appease, it's significantly larger than what most western parties enjoy.


No Igor, it is not taking place in a vacuum, it is taking place because Putin considers the Ukraine "historical Russian land" as you informed us yourself by posting his thesis from the other day and because the west is too weak to do anything about it, so effectively a power vaccuum indeed.

Second, NATO has never invaded Russia, nor threatened her in any way, shape or form. Russia on the other hand, has invaded Georgia, Ukraine and others precisely because they were not NATO members. Therefore, NATO is absolutely necessary for any country wishing to remain free from Russian invasion. Also, Russia permitted Turkey & Azerbaijan to invade Armenia despite Armenia being part of the Russian equivalent of NATO rendering 'Russian protection' to worse than worthless.

The Ukraine specifically did not even want to be in NATO before 2014 but tried to sign a minor Trade Agreement with the EU, similar to the one Russia has already signed. That is not a justification to invade Ukraine several times and certainly not a justification for the current invasion.

All trolls using 18-20th centuries colonialism, Cuban missile crisis and whatever other bullshit they can imagine to justify extreme Russian aggression against a sovereign country will be banned.

This is my final reply to this matter and any reply to my post will be met with a ban.
#15213695
The US is moving forward with sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG and its CEO.

I wonder what deal did Biden cut with Germany around this? It seemed like Germany was willing to throw Ukrainians under the bus like two weeks ago.

EDIT: Sanctions were approved by the US congress previously, but the president had waived it. He's lifting the waiver to allow the sanctions to go through.
Last edited by Rancid on 23 Feb 2022 20:21, edited 1 time in total.
#15213705
For a thread that's supposed to track what's going on. There sure isn't much talking about what is actually happening.

Anyway, Donetsk and Luhansk have requested aid from Russia. Obviously the excuse Russia wants to further escalate.

Also, it's pretty hilarious they call themselves the Donetsk people's public. Nations that have the moniker "The peoples republic.." are usually shit holes it seems.
#15213713
White House claims Putin is now in a mode of improvisation.

From the White house press conference that happened.
“Our assessment is that President Putin did not expect the United States to have the level of information that we have, did not expect us to put out this amount of information that we have put out, and he did not expect the global community to be as unified”

I had suspected this is why the US was putting out so much information the last few weeks about the potential false flags and claims of mass graves found by Russia,etc. etc. and other dumb shit Putin is trying/thinking about. Basically to openly broadcast what he's mulling over so people aren't surprised when he starts making stupid claims about all the stupid shit he's doing.

That said, this could just turn him more rabid.
#15213715
To be honest, the US might just be trying to save face. They're hardly a reliable narrator in this mess.

The Swiss announcement had me :lol: . Even if true, it's almost a confession that they've been helping Russian oligarchs avoid sanctions until now (which of course they have, they're still holding onto Nazi gold, it's the confession that makes it funny.)
#15213718
Rancid wrote:For a thread that's supposed to track what's going on. There sure isn't much talking about what is actually happening.

Anyway, Donetsk and Luhansk have requested aid from Russia. Obviously the excuse Russia wants to further escalate.

Also, it's pretty hilarious they call themselves the Donetsk people's public. Nations that have the moniker "The peoples republic.." are usually shit holes it seems.

It's an ode to communism, which Dontsk and Lugansk identify with (the hammer and sickle are on their flags). Like the People's Republic of China and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
#15213739
Putin has closed the airspace around the border. He posted a notice of air missions or something like that. Could be more fucking around, or real. In either case, it should be taken seriously because that kind of action is serious, even if playing games.
#15213752
@Rancid

Putin is not playing games, he is fixing to invade Ukraine, and launch serious military action. It's very serious business. This the true face of a dicator like Putin or, quite frankly speaking, Donald Trump who tried and has so far failed to become a dictator here in the United States. This is why dictatorship is not the answer or the solution to problems. This is why democracy and fighting for democracy is important. My thoughts are with Ukraine's democracy and I feel it is the duty of the United States to give as much support to Ukraine as we reasonably can without triggering World War III.

Moreover, I am happy to hear that Biden was firm in making certain that Putin understood that the United States will use it's military might to fight to defend every inch of NATO territory and is now starting to position U.S. troops into the Baltic states that are our NATO allies. The time for talk is over and Ukraine must now be prepared to fight for their freedom and their land. Unfortunately, blood will be spilled given Putin has decided to invade Ukraine.
#15213754
The time for talk is over and Ukraine must now be prepared to fight for their freedom and their land. Unfortunately, blood will be spilled given Putin has decided to invade Ukraine.


I agree. None of us want this war to happen. Innocent people will die. I will support PM Scott Morrison's decision making.

Ukrainians must take up arms. Allied countries should support them and I don't mean by sending money. The war should be limited to the region as much as is possible.

Also I don't believe there should be discussion over any of the previous American Presidents either since they all contributed in their own ways as usual. That's not going to help Ukrainians NOW.

I am seriously concerned this is going to escalate to a global conflict. I hope it doesn't.
#15213755
@colliric

Ukraine is under attack right now. Getting hit with artillery fire. I warned a Ukrainian woman earlier today to get out of Kharkiv because her city was a target of attack by the Russian army. Good thing I did, it's getting hit right now with artillery according to reports from CNN. I had been corresponding with her and others over the course a few months in a Telegram chat group where we practice English and Russian. She is a Russian speaker and a civilian with kids.
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