Roe V. Wade to be Overturned - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15225424
Unthinking Majority wrote:When you go buy a ticket to a baseball game you agree to watch a game, but on the ticket you are given informed consent that a ball may come into the stands and hit you. If you get hit nobody "agrees" to get hit nor does anyone sign a waiver, but they do consent to the risk that it may happen and they can't sue.


Well, no, you actually did agree to the possibility of being hit because the legal disclaimer is right there on the ticket. No such ticket exists in the case of sex, and if one did, I sure as hell wouldn't be signing it.

You are a babyist and do not take fetus rights seriously at all. Or at least this is what your childish insults sound like. Tantrums and ad hominems will not win this argument, and reflect more on you than I.


If a fetus is a person, then it is within my rights to evict it from my property whenever I feel like. If it refuses to leave, then any violence necessary and sufficient to remove it is justified. But maybe you do not believe in the concept of property.

Ok great, make men legally liable for damage. We can also allow men or the DA to sue the mother on behalf of the child when they murder the child. The child didn't even consent to its own creation, and now parents wish to play God again and kill it without its consent. We all know who is really the victim here.

What you don't seem to understand is that there's more than one party involved here, and that they also have rights. All pro-choice people do is talk endlessly about the rights of women. What about the rights of the human life inside her that her (and her beau's) willful actions created ? Conveniently ignored. What's in this for me? ME ME ME ME. I can only assume that if you were a baby inside a womb your opinions about rights would be very different, and so would everybody's. ME ME ME. Unfortunately fetuses don't have anyone to advocate for them as they are voiceless, except for "dumb sexists". Literally the most vulnerable people among the entire population. Fuck them.


Childish insult. Ad hominems. Tantrums will not win this argument.


The child is an unwanted trespasser. It is not murder to defend yourself.
#15225426
I didn't realize this subject would be so heated on pofo.

I say let those that want abortions do them. Wrong or right.

Same with guns, I think everyone deserves to keep as many guns as they want.
#15225427
If a fetus is a person, can I claim them as a dependent on my tax forms? Can I apply for child welfare credits and other forms of assistance available to mothers? Do they get citizenship if I conceive on US soil? Do they get a passport?

No?

Damn, I guess they're not legally people.
Last edited by Fasces on 04 May 2022 01:00, edited 1 time in total.
#15225428
Saeko wrote:The child is an unwanted trespasser. It is not murder to defend yourself.

Interesting take. I hope my mother does not sue me for 9 month of rent in her uterus + interests over the past 30+ years, she would bankrupt me.
On the other hand, I did not want to come into this world, so she force my existence without my permission so I guess I could sue her for that? :lol:
@Saeko I think you are bordering on crazy impractical arguments.
There are far better arguments in favor of abortion... this is not the hill to die. :lol:
#15225429
Unthinking Majority wrote:And what if you invite someone to crash into you on a test track where its all legal?


That is the equivalent of asking to be impregnated which is not at all the same thing.

If you crash into someone on the street you're breaking the law. You're not following the agreed upon rules.


Yes, and then you are responsible for damages to other people's cars and bodies. Just because they were driving on the road with you does not mean they consented to being crashed into. Similarly, if you get someone pregnant by accident, you are responsible for damages inflicted.
#15225431
Rancid wrote:I didn't realize this subject would be so heated on pofo.


This is the fundamental issue with the culture war and politics as a football game mentality - people start taking positions out of tribalism and abandon their own ideas. Half these people weren't against abortion 5 years ago (hell a poll of Republicans even show a majority still support Roe v Wade), but now its all about owning the libs.
#15225433
Well, having a baby and giving birth to that infant full term is a huge responsibility. It is hard to give birth. It is not without risk. Also being a single mother and having a child without the father's support is difficult for women-especially lower income women. Many women just don't want the responsibility of carrying a baby to term.

In the past it was not uncommon for a married woman to have 12, 15, 20 children. Farms needed helping hands, and people did not have Netflix to entertain themselves. Haha. Sex is a serious act. Many people think it is not. But it is. People engage in it even when they are unable to get pregnant at age 58 or 68 or 70 etc. they still have sex because it feels good. It is an instinct and it is a way of creating intimacy.

For women it has major consequences. For men too. But the truth is that raising a child to maturity requires not some single woman and single man....but a huge village of people shaping that child with teachers, doctors, cops, fire fighters, businesspeople, religious communities, extended families and everyone involved over many years. The child gets taught their native language, their cultural matrix, their value systems and their traditions and also their ways to express emotion and logic. It is complex. Raising a baby to adulthood takes a lot of energy, time, effort and calories and money and emotional and psychic investment.

I think the problem is we don't question how well we are supporting the children who are already born. If we can't even be committed to a more supportive family oriented society and making sure kids get fed, clothed, educated and looked after and medically protected? How are we going to play God to some woman who knows she can't be alone in the efforts to raise that child because she is alone, drug addicted, unemployed, homeless, some teen or youth without prospects, in debt for thousands of dollars to a university, and basically thinking? Do I have what it takes to do the task? Many of them have the answer to that and it is a very resounding NO.

If you want to help the unborn? Make women's lives a priority in the world. Don't exploit them, or rape them, or abuse them or pay them less for the same work, or silence them when they are trying to discuss something very intimate.

Who are women? Our bodies are these wondrous and wonderful receptacles of new life. We nourish the new generations with every breath the baby takes in our wombs, and we nourish them with every meal we eat while pregnant, we sustain them. For what? To be told we are not really aware of the responsibilities of sexual behavior? There has to be a sense of community that says to us, 'you are not alone. We care. We always will.'

Focus more on that thought than saying we want to not commit to the well being of your sex, but we want to make sure you are responsible for everything ALONE. Because if she feels that? The baby doesn't have a chance of being born. She will find a way of saying, 'I can't do it alone. I can't'. How many men flee that responsibility and leave the single mother alone in the world. Being alone. Doing alone and having to raise kids alone? It is not justice to think that way about pregnancies.
#15225434
Fasces wrote:If a fetus is a person, can I claim them as a dependent on my tax forms? Can I apply for child welfare credits and other forms of assistance available to mothers? Do they get citizenship if I conceive on US soil? Do they get a passport?

No?

Damn, I guess they're not legally people.


No, but other living beings still get legal protection regardless. Why not human fetuses? :?:
#15225439
Saeko wrote:“We live in a society that is comfortable letting men get away with sexual violence but determined not to let women get away with consensual sex.”

-Laurie Penny


Ignorant quote. Women do not exist. They're gone forever.

We only have "birthing persons" now.
#15225442
XogGyux wrote:Interesting take. I hope my mother does not sue me for 9 month of rent in her uterus + interests over the past 30+ years, she would bankrupt me.
On the other hand, I did not want to come into this world, so she force my existence without my permission so I guess I could sue her for that? :lol:
@Saeko I think you are bordering on crazy impractical arguments.
There are far better arguments in favor of abortion... this is not the hill to die. :lol:


The same idiots who are now whining about the rights of fetuses were also the same idiots who were endlessly bitching and moaning about how property owners have the right to execute whoever they feel like for trespass or property damage during the George Floyd protests.

Maybe the protestors should have tracked down the owners, forced their way into their bodies, and sucked out their blood and organs. Presumably, Unthinking Majority would have no problem with this whatsoever.
#15225445
Saeko wrote:The same idiots who are now whining about the rights of fetuses were also the same idiots who were endlessly bitching and moaning about how property owners have the right to execute whoever they feel like for trespass or property damage during the George Floyd protests.

Maybe the protestors should have tracked down the owners, forced their way into their bodies, and sucked out their blood and organs. Presumably, Unthinking Majority would have no problem with this whatsoever.


My point being, just because they are making idiotic arguments it does not mean you have to meet them at their level.
For over a decade of participation and commenting on this forum, I think it is quite clear that I support women's right to have safe abortions. That does not mean I would subscribe to some wacky "baby is trasspassing on private uterus property" nonsense and/or that a pregnancy equates to rape due to its unintended nature.
There are plenty of good arguments to support the right of a woman to choose, these are not.
#15225446
Beren wrote:The midterm election season is about to begin in the US and there's a strange scent in the air.

Image

Say what you will, but the guy delivered. In an evil twisted and depraved way, but he did deliver.
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