[ThirdTerm]

The Hispanic shooter was a bullying victim in high school, brutally mocked for being gayish, which made him mentally unstable enough to shoot innocent school children. American schools need to implement anti-bullying programs and enforce the complete ban on school bullying by going after bullies, who should be disciplined by teachers. I have been saying that the original school shooters at Columbine High School were bullying victims who killed his schoolmates who mocked him.

[wat0n]

@wat0n

Until you provide links, this is not going to be fruitful.

Links for what exactly?

You have expert recommendations.

You can consult good statistics books about causal inference or experimental design. I can give you recommendations if you need.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

No thank you.

I will dismiss your argument as one made without knowledge of whether or not it is true.

[wat0n]

@wat0n

No thank you.

I will dismiss your argument as one made without knowledge of whether or not it is true.

You can fund those studies if you want, but that doesn't mean they'll reach any widely accepted conclusions. Precisely because it's hard to provide an answer, if anything.

Even then, I'm not really against it. I just don't expect them to reach any useful conclusions.

It's up to you to explain how would you test a theory to explain mass shootings.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

No thanks.

I will keep following the science.

[wat0n]

@Pants-of-dog OK, so then explain how would any theories on this matter be tested. To "follow the science" requires using a sound methodology to answer whatever question you want to answer. If you don't understand the methodology then, no, you don't actually understand the science.

I gave you examples on how to use a scientific approach to assess the results of gun control or buffing school security.

[Scamp]

How about the idea that a person who lives in the most corrupt, criminal, gunfire and shooting prone, immoral, murderous, sh!tholes in America is trying desperately to give us advice on stopping gun crime.
Go Chicago and wat0n.

[wat0n]

@Scamp Chicago is definitely not the most dangerous city in this country. At least look it up.

[ingliz]

the most corrupt, criminal, gunfire and shooting prone, immoral, murderous, sh!tholes in America

Taking the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting Program as a measure - murder, non-negligent manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault - in 2022, the most dangerous cities in the US are Atlanta, Philadelphia, Salt Lake City, Springfield, Memphis, Chattanooga, Little Rock, and Tacoma.

[late]

Those countries are all missing a diversity that we have in the USA. Millions of them.

Why have the gun laws every civilised country has when you can have racism.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog OK, so then explain how would any theories on this matter be tested. To "follow the science" requires using a sound methodology to answer whatever question you want to answer. If you don't understand the methodology then, no, you don't actually understand the science.

I gave you examples on how to use a scientific approach to assess the results of gun control or buffing school security.

I can understand methodology without speculating on how experts would design their experiments.

For example, my knowledge of forensic psychology is limited to what I can glean from Hollywood movies and airport books written by former agents, consequently my speculations about their methodology would almost certainly be useless. That does not mean that forensic psychologists cannot, for example, create a profile of mass shooters.

[late]

How about the idea that a person who lives in the most corrupt, criminal, gunfire and shooting prone, immoral, murderous, sh!tholes in America is trying desperately to give us advice on stopping gun crime

I live in Maine, one of the three safest states in the country. We also have a low crime rate, and we're far more moral than most Republican states.

It's also not advice, you'd be a waste of time. The reality is pretty simple. I even have a compromise for the sane, return gun laws to the way they were in 1960.

Unfortunately, sanity is not on the menu, now is it.

[wat0n]

I can understand methodology without speculating on how experts would design their experiments.

For example, my knowledge of forensic psychology is limited to what I can glean from Hollywood movies and airport books written by former agents, consequently my speculations about their methodology would almost certainly be useless. That does not mean that forensic psychologists cannot, for example, create a profile of mass shooters.

They can, indeed they do, but it's not clear why they reach that state. Why do some people become mass shooters and others don't, despite facing similar circumstances? What's the underlying cause here? Can we even learn them?

That's why you'll find that one proposal by experts, mentioned in the report, is constant screening. This would be sensible regardless of why some people decide to become mass shooters.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

….
Uvalde’s school district also supplemented its small police force with a range of security measures, according to school district documents.

The district said it had assigned a group of support counselors and threat assessment teams to each campus and that it used software known as Social Sentinel that monitored “all social media with a connection to Uvalde” to identify any possible threats. Robb Elementary was also one of a group of campuses that used perimeter fencing designed to limit access to the building, according to the school district.

Turns out the school did spend money to get a fence to prevent access from an assailant.

The article also mentions there were officers in campus at the time.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/2 ... e-00035332

[wat0n]

@Pants-of-dog I posted the Google Street View pictures from the Robb Elementary School. The fences are like 4', clearly meant to keep the kids in more than anything else. Even worse, the gate wasn't even closed which is why the gunner came in quickly. The doors of the buildings inside the school weren't closed and the school didn't have time to lock down.

This was a major security failure from the district, on top of all the issues with gun access (no psychological and psychiatric clearing to buy a gun? Really?) and the wrong approach by the cops.

[Drlee]

Yes, we know that, dimwit. So how do you get people who consider gun ownership a key right and even a passage to adulthood to just decide to give them up again? Is it even feasible? A buyback program would help, but unless astronomical amount of money was spent (and probably even if it was), it's unlikely you'll see gun owners just give up their guns.

I guess calling them heartless morons or terrorists will surely convince them, won't it?

We need to defeat them at the ballot box. We need to do this wherever we can. We will not win every state.

We need to make gun owners liable for the guns registered to them. Allow them to be sued if their kid, friend, person who robbed their house and stole guns that were not locked up are used in a crime, suicide, or accident.

We need to raise the age to possess a gun 21 unless accompanied by someone over 21.

We need to require a background check and waiting period for all gun purchases. We need to make selling a firearm privately and not through a licensed gun retailer a crime.

There are things we can do in most states. If the cousin-fuckers in the south can't be controlled then so be it. Let them shoot each other up.

Meanwhile, the lies coming out of the police on the scene has finally prompted the feds to take over the investigation. It is about time. That chief of police needs to be run out of town on a rail. He can get a job at Burger King, if he wears a disguise. The town police department should be fired en masse. Clean slate and start again with people interested in police work and not armed parading.

But the outrage is fading and will be completely gone by next week. Nothing will change. We will have this thread again in a little while.

And for God's sake @wat0n will you stop with the fence shit? That is just stupid. They guy had a fucking assault rifle. He could walk in the front door and go on his rampage. Or shoot his way in. Some security guard with a pistol is not going to stop him. The problem is not going to be helped with a fucking fence. Get a grip.

[wat0n]

@Drlee he could have shot the security guard, but if he'd been unable to get into the school we'd be talking about a lower body count.

Also, in this case it's not enough to get guns heavily regulated in "most" states. Again, I live in a city that has tighter gun control measures than most jurisdictions in the US yet most of the guns come from Indiana and Wisconsin, which are more permissive. Ultimately, unlike abortion, this clearly needs to be regulated at the federal level to be fully effective.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog I posted the Google Street View pictures from the Robb Elementary School. The fences are like 4', clearly meant to keep the kids in more than anything else. Even worse, the gate wasn't even closed which is why the gunner came in quickly. The doors of the buildings inside the school weren't closed and the school didn't have time to lock down.

This was a major security failure from the district, on top of all the issues with gun access (no psychological and psychiatric clearing to buy a gun? Really?) and the wrong approach by the cops.

I am merely pointing out that Robb Elementary had enacted what security measures they could afford. And unfortunately, they did not work.

Nor did the campus officer who was, at the time, not on campus. He heard there was a 911 call, arrived on campus and then drove right by the shooter.

[Politics_Observer]

@wat0n

Wat0n nails it @Drlee . It's got to be regulated at the federal level in ALL U.S. states. Relying on individual states to enact their own laws in regard to guns just makes it unsafe in all the other states. No state has the right to jeopardize the lives of people in other states due to the fact they have lax gun laws. It's an issue that the country, as a whole, at the federal level, with federal legislation applying and stringently enforced with real teeth in all 50 states must be done to keep kids safe at school.

That's the solution to the problem, and until that specific solution is applied, nothing else will stop these mass shootings at schools and supermarkets. Also, strengthening domestic terrorism laws and treating mass shooting as a domestic terrorist event and possibly a hate crime depending on the intent. These mass shooters are domestic terrorists whose intent is to instill fear and terror in a civilian population.

[Drlee]

@wat0n

Wat0n nails it @Drlee . It's got to be regulated at the federal level in ALL U.S. states. Relying on individual states to enact their own laws in regard to guns just makes it unsafe in all the other states. No state has the right to jeopardize the lives of people in other states due to the fact they have lax gun laws. It's an issue that the country, as a whole, at the federal level, with federal legislation applying and stringently enforced with real teeth in all 50 states must be done to keep kids safe at school.

And you two prove my point. The laws will never pass at the federal level so we are compelled to accept that a few hundred little boys and girls will pet their kitties, head to school, and never come home.

Why?

Because people like you two throw your hands up and want a one-over-the-world solution or nothing at all.

I don't really care what happens in Wisconsin. What I do care about is that we allow the families in the state where these guns would be illegal to sue the shit out of the people who sold the guns.

But there will be no action because you guys want to stand on the sidelines and accept that nothing can be done.

Let me ask you a question. When you go to the store, do you guys wait until all the lights are green between your house and the destination? Or do you start and deal with the signals when they come up?