[noemon]

Bloomberg reporting 37 million infenctions per day right now in China, wtf that can't be real and 248 million contracted it since the policy has been lifted. If true then what the fuck, did Chinese vaccine not work at all or something.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ify%20wall

This does not bode well for the world, with such high infection rates we will have a Covid outburst against worldwide. It might mutate again, what the hell have they been doing for the last 2 years.

I think it has to do with the lockdowns, Chinese people may not have developed herd immunity from what it seems.

[Patrickov]

I think it has to do with the lockdowns, Chinese people may not have developed herd immunity from what it seems.

That's indeed the case.

That shows how useless Chinese are at governing themselves.

[Patrickov]

China has checks and balances within its system.

It's circumvented by letting one man hold multiple job titles.

The problem is Chinese simply do not have a sense of check and balance. Any such system there is hollow talk.

[Potemkin]

The problem is Chinese simply do not have a sense of check and balance. Any such system there is hollow talk.

Qin Shi Huang approves of this post.

[Deutschmania]

I think it has to do with the lockdowns, Chinese people may not have developed herd immunity from what it seems.

There can several reasons for this failure of herd immunity.

First, unlike other vaccines that prevent diseases, COVID-19 vaccines just protects from severe illness. Even vaccinated people fall sick, are asymptomatic and can transmit the virus.

Second, the immunity provided by the COVID-19 vaccines wane quickly. Vaccination began only in December 2020 and at best, we have efficacy information only for a year. A study published in The New England Journal of Medicine February 16, 2022 suggested that immunity in people with Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine started waning after six months. In people who were infected and vaccinated, immunity started waning after a year. Third, this is the first time a vaccine has been used on adults who have poorer immune response compared to children. The younger population also continues to spread the disease.

Fourth, a large proportion of the global population is still unvaccinated and this is resulting in emergence of new variants. The vaccine can also be putting evolutionary pressure on the virus and lead to the development of new variants.

This is being considered to be the reason for recent surges in vaccinated countries.

The omicron variant was identified in November 2021 by researchers in South Africa. However, within some weeks, it was observed that this variant has three branches BA.1, BA.2 and BA.3.

Initially, BA.1 was dominant but at present, BA.2 is becoming more prevalent. This variant has been termed ‘stealth variant’. Though BA.2 does not cause more severe disease, it spreads more readily.

In these circumstances, it is unclear when we would be free from the risk of the disease. If we want to depend on herd immunity, we need to figure out ways to keep immunity above the herd immunity threshold.

According to a study published in Frontiers of Medicine journal February 28, 2022, vaccination strategies need to adapt to this. For this, the authors suggested increasing vaccine coverage and providing timely booster doses. They also prescribe research to understand the best prime-boost vaccine combinations and immunisation strategies. https://www.downtoearth.org.in/blog/health/covid-19-surge-why-has-china-not-attained-herd-immunity-despite-high-vaccination-coverage--81971

The World Health Organization experts pointed out this month that the coronavirus was already spreading intensively long before China lifted the control measures as these measures were ineffective. Some even speculated that it was personal experiences with the virus that had changed the decision makers’ assessment of the disease.

On 27 December, an official from the National Health Commission stressed that severe cases and deaths have been greatly reduced after nearly three years of strict controls and implementing Class A disease management on Covid-19 and weathering five global waves of the virus.

The process provided valuable time for research into the development and use of vaccines, as well as improving healthcare and other resources. Hence, the current adjustment of Covid-19 to Class B infectious disease management is “a battle that China is prepared for and not a passive opening up.”

Going from zero Covid to opening up would indeed cause anxiety and chaos. But looking at the overwhelming wave — with the shortages of fever medicine, rapid antigen tests and N95 masks, the squeeze on medical resources, and even the overloaded crematoriums — it is clear that China is ill-prepared for this battle. Indeed, China’s strong control capabilities allowed it to do what other countries could not — achieve zero Covid. Now comes the real test of its governance capabilities. With low vaccination rates among the elderly, insufficient medical resources for severe cases, and a shortage of basic medicine, China faces a tough battle.

Will the authorities be able to manage the people’s expectations, clearly articulate its plans and aims, be more transparent through active communication of information, or even promptly acknowledge any gaps and adjust its policies accordingly?

Will medical resources and supplies keep pace with the spread of the virus in the short term? Indeed, the people’s trust and confidence in the government would be based on the effectiveness of these control measures.... With the rapid spread of Covid-19 in China, the country will very likely face growing diplomatic pressure. The key to defusing this pressure is easing the domestic outbreak through scientific means and steadily transitioning from zero Covid to opening up. China should also stay calm and work with the international community and organisations to flatten the curve and reduce the loss of lives during the transition and minimise the impact of the outbreak.

One of the biggest doubts about three years of zero Covid — especially the additional layers of measures — is whether politics is taking priority over science. It no longer matters whether this is a scientific or political decision now that China is determined to open up. However, amid the Covid-19 storm, the world is observing with bated breath whether China can avoid being accused of putting politics first and fight this tough battle with science. https://www.thinkchina.sg/how-china-bolted-zero-covid-towards-herd-immunity

Three recent articles published in the New York Times and Financial Times have stated that China appears to be striving for “herd immunity” through rapid mass infection. But the reality is that “herd immunity” is a mirage manufactured by far-right politicians and corrupt scientists in 2020 and has no scientific basis. The Chinese population is being forced to join the rest of the world in a horrific cycle of ongoing mass COVID infections and reinfections, which will cause compounding damage to the physical and economic health of society, with global ramifications...The deliberate disarming of the global population to the dangers of the pandemic and promotion of unending mass infection—from China to the US, and everywhere in between—places society in great danger in the face of future variants.

The laws of viral evolution are objective and detached from baseless claims of governments that COVID-19 will gradually become less dangerous. At any point, a new variant could evolve that combines increased immune-resistance, transmissibility and virulence, producing an even greater global wave of infections and deaths.

In 2023, the international working class must draw the political and scientific lessons from the first three years of the pandemic, reject the lies of the capitalist ruling elites and their pliant media, and take up a global struggle to stop the spread of COVID-19 and massively expand public health in every country. The capitalist subordination of human life to profit and the accumulation of wealth must be ended. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/28/pers-d28.html

And I feel that the lock downs have had some beneficial impact in containing the rate of infection, based upon data I have received from this one Vietnamese YouTuber.

[Istanbuller]

I not only live here, but I can remember the 1960s. You are throwing dumbass poo...

The values the Founding Fathers had were from the Enlightenment. They were the liberals of their age. The intellectual counterparts were typically conservative, like Hobbes.

Since Republicans are trying to kill democracy, you have a point there. But only about Republicans. And Sinema..

If you want to get specific about *anything*, I will respond. But since you don't know enough to get specific, that doesn't seem too likely, now does it?

America was built on very liberal and progressive values so you know. The meaning of liberal and progressive just changes over the years constantly since US independence.

The US constitution was very liberal and progressive for the time. Same goes for the eradication of slavery and other things. (Although US wasn't the first, I think the Brits were)

American Revolutionary War, the declaration of independence, the Scottish Enlightenment and so are all about freedom, small government and non- interference. Democrats, progressives, leftists and socialists defend ideas which are opposite of these.

[late]

American Revolutionary War, the declaration of independence, the Scottish Enlightenment and so are all about freedom, small government and non- interference. Democrats, progressives, leftists and socialists defend ideas which are opposite of these.

The Modern era changed that a bit. Government stopped being small, and it got dragged into fixing disasters, some natural, some man made.

[Istanbuller]

The Modern era changed that a bit. Government stopped being small, and it got dragged into fixing disasters, some natural, some man made.

No. Classical liberalism, libertarianism, has never changed for last 300 years.

What you describe is a faction of authoritarianism. It is called socialism. It is another ideology. Thomas Robert Malthus, David Ricardo, Karl Marx and John Maynard Keynes' ideas are about "fixing disasters, some natural, some man made".

[late]

1) No. Classical liberalism, libertarianism, has never changed for last 300 years.

2) What you describe is a faction of authoritarianism.

3) It is called socialism. It is another ideology.

4) Thomas Robert Malthus, David Ricardo, Karl Marx and John Maynard Keynes' ideas are about "fixing disasters, some natural, some man made".

1) That is true, but libertarians are kooks, and classic liberalism died when the Modern era was born, in the 1800s.

2) It's the opposite of that, the Modern world ended slavery, gave women the vote, and stopped using the power of the state to suppress Unions. Like I keep having to say, you need lies that are vaguely plausible..

3) That's an old lie. The old definition of socialism is the state owning the means of production, but the new one is just strong social programs.

4) That's an odd collection. What most don't know is that the people running governments didn't particularly want to expand the role of government. But when something like a plague shows up, sitting on the sidelines isn't really a choice, now is it?

At least, is not a choice if you're sane.

[Istanbuller]

1) That is true, but libertarians are kooks, and classic liberalism died when the Modern era was born, in the 1800s.

2) It's the opposite of that, the Modern world ended slavery, gave women the vote, and stopped using the power of the state to suppress Unions. Like I keep having to say, you need lies that are vaguely plausible..

3) That's an old lie. The old definition of socialism is the state owning the means of production, but the new one is just strong social programs.

4) That's an odd collection. What most don't know is that the people running governments didn't particularly want to expand the role of government. But when something like a plague shows up, sitting on the sidelines isn't really a choice, now is it?

At least, is not a choice if you're sane.

Are you saying that the founding fathers, American Revolutionary War, the declaration of independence, freedom of speech etc are all kooks? You just admit that the founding fathers are not "progressives of their time".

What you want is very much authoritarianism. Interference by the state "authority".

The state opening of means of production and seizure of private property is the last station in socialism. The journey begins with the state interference.

Politicians and people want the role of government to expand because people people want free stuff (which are not really free) and politicians want to do things in exchange for votes. Politicians never let crisis to go waste. It always led to abuse of of power like printing tons of money and causing living cost to increase. Biden admin and Democrats' trillion dollars spending bills and social programs never helped people but caused inflation and financial destabilzation, for instance.

[late]

1) Are you saying that the founding fathers, American Revolutionary War, the declaration of independence, freedom of speech etc are all kooks?

2) You just admit that the founding fathers are not "progressives of their time".

3) What you want is very much authoritarianism. Interference by the state "authority".

4) The state opening of means of production and seizure of private property is the last station in socialism. The journey begins with the state interference.

1) Don't let your desperation lead you into saying something that stupid. Two centuries ago, the Founding Fathers lived in a very different world.

2) There were no Progressives back then. The closest they came was Jefferson.

3) "The intent makes the crime." Progressives want to make the country a better place. Meanwhile Republicans are doing a naked power grab, and you're ignoring that. Are we a wee bit schizophrenic??

4) Interesting fantasy. I award you a brownie point for fiction. But it has nothing to do with reality.

5) I deleted your rant. It's pure crap.

[Rancid]

I think it has to do with the lockdowns, Chinese people may not have developed herd immunity from what it seems.

This is surprising to hear, but that does seem to be the case.

It seems that their own vaccine isn't effective then.

[Unthinking Majority]

If covid is going to spread like mad every winter in China because of their population density are we in for a long and slow global economic recovery? I think so.

[Patrickov]

If covid is going to spread like mad every winter in China because of their population density are we in for a long and slow global economic recovery? I think so.

Some prosperity simply does not deserve to happen. If the West wants "recovery" they have to rely on themselves rather than some corrupted and tyrannical people.

[Istanbuller]

1) Don't let your desperation lead you into saying something that stupid. Two centuries ago, the Founding Fathers lived in a very different world.

2) There were no Progressives back then. The closest they came was Jefferson.

3) "The intent makes the crime." Progressives want to make the country a better place. Meanwhile Republicans are doing a naked power grab, and you're ignoring that. Are we a wee bit schizophrenic??

4) Interesting fantasy. I award you a brownie point for fiction. But it has nothing to do with reality.

5) I deleted your rant. It's pure crap.

You told me that libertarians are kooks. I asked you if these things are kook too or not. So you are anti American as you oppose founding values of the country. Instead, you choose to believe in alternate reality.

What power grab? It is Democrats who is in power right now. I criticize Republicans either but they embrace libertarian values of American more than Democrats do. They are lesser of the evil.

I always tell you that Biden and Xi are the same. Both Biden and Xi believe the state authority is the soulution to problems.

[late]

You told me that libertarians are kooks.

Of course.

As for the rest, repeating BS doesn't improve it.