Erdogan: "Our rockets can and will hit Athens" - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15258742
ekathimerini wrote:Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan added Sunday to a long series of bellicose statements he and his ministers have directed at Greece, this time threatening to strike the country, specifically capital Athens, with a missile “unless you stay calm.”

“Greece is afraid of our missiles. They say that the TAYFUN missile will hit Athens, it will, unless you stay calm,” Erdogan said Sunday, according to journalist Ragip Soylu, Turkish Bureau chief of news site Middle East Eye.

Tayfun (Turkish for “typhoon”) is a short-range ballistic missile, or SRBM, developed by Turkey and test-fire last October 18. At about 560 kilometers, its range is more than double that of the currently known missiles in Turkey’s arsenal, the Bora-1.

These kinds of threats are not new, although, in this case, they are more specific than usual. A few days ago, Turkish foreign minister Mevlut Cavusoglu threatened Greece with invasion if it does not demilitarize its Aegean islands. Cavusoglu said Turkey would “suddenly arrive overnight,” a phrase Turkish officials often like to use.

Greek officials usually dismiss these statements as pandering to a domestic audience. But, with Erdogan facing a difficult re-election next year, they are also concerned that he could orchestrate an incident as an act of desperation. Also, with Greece facing a double election next year, in which a caretaker government is likely to be in place between the two elections, government officials are wary that Erdogan could time the incident to coincide with this period of least stability in Greek politics.
#15259840
Why ... yes.

Turkey and Greece have been in conflict over Cyprus since, well, I dont even know since when exactly, without looking it up. Since a very long time, many decades. You can find it mentioned even in very old movies. For example M.A.S.H. mentions it. Thats actually how I learned about this conflict for the first time.

To add to the fun, France has already guaranteed Greece they will help if Turkey attacks them.

Because NATO members attacking each other, now where could possibly be the problem.

Fair warning: there will be a lot more sarcasm in this posting.



Long story short, the USA has installed a puppet regime in Ukraine in 2014 and caused a civil war that has lasted ever since, until Russia decided this year to finally end this conflict with an invasion. While the west is busy shouting "war of aggression" (and argument that outside the west is perceived as absurd, because effectively the west is just defending its monopoly on wars of aggression) and "international sanctions" (which is again not true, there are only western sanctions, the few countries outside the west who inflict sanctions on Russia have usually been bullied into doing so).

And, as a side effect of the US meddling in eastern Europe, all kinds of other conflicts are now breaking out all over Europe now.



For example Poland has recently repeatedly demanded reparations from Germany over WW2. To which the germans of course answered sure, but then we want our territory back, that we lost to you after WW2. Yes here in Germany, our "Vertriebene" (exciles) are now in about FOURTH generation (!) but they still want those territories "back" ROTFL !

It also didnt exactly help german-polish relations that after the USA blew up the Nordstream pipelines, one important polish politician publically showed Schadenfreude ("its not a big thing, but it feels good") over the damage done to Germany.

Additionally Poland currently seems to stealth mobilize. Possibly to conquer West Ukraine, which after all is territory they lost during WW2 ? Rumors also say there have been thousands of polish mercenaries in the ukrainian military since months. Probably to get combat experience. Thats all speculation, but it will be so bad if it turns out to be true.

In short, Poland seems to work really hard on getting attacked by somebody soon. Again. Because apparently that didnt happen often enough historically already to them.



Additionally the USA has directly attacked its own ally Germany by blowing up their Nordstream pipelines and they havent been exactly subtle about it either, first basically announcing it and then being gleeful about the "business opportunities".

So really unsurprisingly the USA was the first to start this new nice tradition of NATO members attacking each other.



There was apparently a very interesting article in the german magazin Der Spiegel (btw that translates to "The Mirror"). Chancellor Scholtz boasted in that article that he would read a lot, and gave a list of books he would read. The problem: those have been exclusively books of western propaganda.

Of course like so many important articles recently, its again hidden behind a paywall, so I have to rely on information from people who have access. I'm not interested in supporting Der Spiegel, for all I care thats a garbage outlet and I dont care if they exist or not.

Still its really no surprise that Scholz clearly has no clue what countries outside the west think and what their problems and interests are. He never bothers to inform himself about it, living happily in his own echo chamber.

Propaganda is bad enough as it is. But leading politicians believing in their own propaganda lies, thats bad.



To sum it up: we live in interesting times. And we are ruled by idiots.

They ruined our health and economies during the COVID19 crisis, now they're wasting money on fruitless and hopeless wars instead of rebuilding our economies.

So obviously nothing can possibly go wrong. :knife:



Morgan Le Fey wrote:Erdogan is a known bum.


Yep, he's corrupt etc, there is no doubt about it.

But more importantly he successfully plays both teams, so compared to the current standard he's one of the more sane and competent politicians who at least have some awareness of whats actually going on. Instead of just sitting around in their own echo chamber and repeating hypocritical virtue signaling all day long.

And that Turkey and Greece have issues with each other is nothing new and didnt start with Erdogan at all and will remain a problem for the forseeable future, even long after Erdogan is gone.
#15259846
Negotiator wrote:Long story short, the USA has installed a puppet regime in Ukraine in 2014

That is a lie, and doesn't become any truer for its endless repetition. A big part of the problem is that lefties managed to get their filthy lies on Iraq accepted as conventional wisdom. Bush and Blair did not override the sovereignty of the Iraqi people in 2003. Once this and other lies have been accepted, any government one doesn't like can just be rejected as an American puppet. The Ukrainian government has the support of the majority of the Ukrainian people. This should not be in doubt.
#15259854
Rich wrote:That is a lie, and doesn't become any truer for its endless repetition. A big part of the problem is that lefties managed to get their filthy lies on Iraq accepted as conventional wisdom. Bush and Blair did not override the sovereignty of the Iraqi people in 2003. Once this and other lies have been accepted, any government one doesn't like can just be rejected as an American puppet. The Ukrainian government has the support of the majority of the Ukrainian people. This should not be in doubt.


While I strongly comdemn your narrative of something like "we owe Russia our life", at least you don't make up worse shit like Negotiator does, and firmly calls him out for it.
#15259867
Rich wrote:That is a lie,


I'm German too, but born American by way of the Russian Steppe. I have copies of handwritten notes from my family's execution at the hands of the Soviets (Half of them murdered by AKs while unarmed). We supplied wheat to the Czar until Stalin ruined his economy and came to steal our own wheat reserves. When we said "Nah we've kept our word and supplied your wheat already", the bullets flew.

What Russophiles ignore is Ukrainian will.

I agree with them regarding the nature of Zelensky's position. He's suspect at best as a legit non-NATO actor, but Ukraine has ALWAYS had a concern about Russian aggression and a fear of loss of sovereignty.

I have no doubt NATO and the US will EXPLOIT the living dog pee out of Ukraine when the time for gratefulness comes, but it would be the same for the Russians in reverse, and since they DID do bullets to us... well f*** 'em. Only question remains, after the war who gives Ukraine the better deal?

I still think that's the US. There will be enough international interest that the megadeals that follow will still benefit the Ukrainians to the degree they ever do for any Western Nation. If Russia were to hold the Donbas, Crimea, etc? That exploitation looks far harder and would occur under duress.

You can't fake or spin away who fights on the ground, and whether there are Partisans or not. You can say the war is manipulated, as they all are, but if the people choose to fight on their own imo, that says what needs to be said.

I get the Ukrainian dislike and distrust of the Russians, even if it was three generations ago for us.

I won't cheerlead the US or Germany for that matter, nor will I ignore the Russian citizenry itself, but if it comes down to choosing your colonial player I won't choose Russia under Putin, and we are seen as traitors to many Germans for having lived with The Bear for so long. So it looks like I have to choose the least of the evils before me.

Rich wrote:A big part of the problem is that lefties managed to get their filthy lies on Iraq accepted as conventional wisdom. Bush and Blair did not override the sovereignty of the Iraqi people in 2003.


Then you finish with this crazy horse patootie and I look at what I wrote above and go... "Oh Shit, what have I done?"
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