[Deutschmania]

A presumed PRC spy balloon was just shot down over North Carolina. This reminds me of the lyrics of a song from the 80's . It's funny how life can imitate art.

[ness31]

It’s very strange isn’t it? If the balloon was doing legitimate meteorological work it would have had permissions etc. If it blew off course then that’s the proprietors problem; the US still had every right to take it out.

[Beren]

I'm sure the balloon was spying to gather as much of the newest information as possible that way before Blinken's visit to China. The Chinese assumed the US won't risk taking it down, hence jeopardising the visit.

“This was a PRC (People's Republic of China) surveillance balloon. This surveillance balloon purposely traversed the United States and Canada and we are confident it was seeking to monitor sensitive military sites,” the official said.

“Its route over the United States near many potentially sensitive sites contradicts the PRC government explanation that it is a weather balloon.”

The official said a second balloon, spotted over Central and South America, was “another PRC surveillance balloon” and bore similar technical characteristics to the one that flew over the US.

“Both balloons also carry surveillance equipment not usually associated with standard meteorological activities or civilian research,” the official said. “Collection pod equipment and solar panels located on the metal truss suspended below the balloon are a prominent feature of both balloons.”

The official said China is able to “actively maneuver the balloons to overfly specific locations,” pointing to the balloons’ flight patterns and the small motors and propellers seen in videos as evidence.

The “PRC (People's Republic of China) government surveillance balloons transited the continental United States briefly at least three times during the prior administration and once that we know of at the beginning of this administration, but never for this duration of time,” the defense official said.

So they miscalculated, but it's not such a big deal, I guess. It seems they mean to fix it with sacking the head of their national weather service, who already was appointed to another position anyway.

[Rancid]

PRC is a much weaker nation that it really is. This is in part about making itself seem stronger than it really is. Like Russia, a key component of their strategy is to make themselves look bigger than they really are. Classic Art of Wat shit (read it if you haven't).

CCP can suck a cock.

Anyway, for stuff like this, the best approach isn't always to immediately shoot it down, or raise alarm bells, or expel suspected spies. You can always use it to send back false information to China. For example, setup fake military bases (the US does do this by the way) and let them take photos of that. This is all shit mastered during the cold war when the USSR would run spy flights over the US (and like wise, the US would do it to the USSR).

For example, when a spy is discovered, they are usually NOT arrested, or expelled. Actually, they are ESPECIALLY usually not arrested (more on that later). Often, what happens is you basically start to turn this into a counter-intelligence asset. You try to render the spy asset (person or equipment) of an adversary useless without the adversary realizing the spy asset (person or equipment) is compromised. You use this to basically run a disinformation campaign back to the spy asset's (person or equipment) country of origin. More than rendering the asset useless, you basically turn it into a counter-intelligence asset without them realizing it. That's the game.. Come on people, this is cloak and dagger shit. Read some spy novels, watch some spy movies or something.

I think the media and general public are kind of dumb to how strategy around this sort of thing works. You don't sound alarm bells if you don't have to, in fact, that is the last thing you consider doing. You always look for a way to exploit the situation back to the adversary. For example, if you know a person is a spy, but the home country doesn't realize their spy has been found out. That is something that can be exploited. That is far better than sounding the alarms. That's the counter-intel game people.

FYI, in the spy game, found out spies RARELY get arrested. This is sort of an unwritten rule between countries. They typically just get expelled. This is done in part so that nations don't just start arresting and executing each others spy's. This basically ruins/ends the game for everyone. I recall a few months ago, maybe a year ago. the US arrested some Chinese spies. The reason was because China was breaking the rules of the game with some previous spy situation that happened. It was the US signalling, "If you don't honor the unwritten rules of the game, we won't either". All of this is well understood by people in this field, but the media and general public kind of don't get it. That situation was more CCP hubris of course. The USSR wasn't stupid enough to fuck with the game itself, neighbor is Russia. However, there is a special kind of hubris in the CCP and Xi. This is their downfall in he long term.

[Beren]

The real matter is if how this affects diplomacy and when Blinken can actually visit China. The Ukraine War would've been the most important topic on the agenda, I guess, and the Chinese overplayed their hand with that spy balloon incident because they thought it was too important for the US to get their support (in time).

[Patrickov]

China is, of course, the paper tiger it used to claim the US to be. The US is calling them bluff.

Apparently, the mighty and righteous United States (and the Five Eyes) doesn't fear even if China openly sides with Russia. In fact, if China does so, then we will see the chance to be saved.

[Beren]

The Chinese may want to see the fall of Russia even more than the West does, so they could get rid of a formidable historic rival while putting their hands on its Siberian resources, they just have to carry on with it carefully. They don't think in terms of alliances anyway.

[Patrickov]

The Chinese may want to see the fall of Russia even more than the West does, so they could get rid of a formidable historic rival while putting their hands on its Siberian resources, they just have to carry on with it carefully. They don't think in terms of alliances anyway.

Ideologically the free and open West is the bigger enemy of the closed and totalitarian East, of which both China and Russia are members.

[Beren]

Ideologically the free and open West is the bigger enemy of the closed and totalitarian East, of which both China and Russia are members.

That may be true, but the Chinese still would be willing to divide up Russia between the West and themselves.

[Rich]

Two things should happen.

1 Biden should be impeached, any doubts that China Joe is not a traitor have been removed.

2 There should be military retaliation against China. it doesn't have to be big but it must be enough to completly humiliate Xi and China on the world stage.

[Beren]

There should be military retaliation against China. it doesn't have to be big but it must be enough to completly humiliate Xi and China on the world stage.

Do you think they haven't been humiliated enough yet? As a matter of fact it's supposed to be their turn to retaliate somehow.

[Patrickov]

1 Biden should be impeached, any doubts that China Joe is not a traitor have been removed.

I am not his fan, but I also like to see your evidence.

For 2, I will say provoking China into aggression is better than making the aggression yourself, but if the West can liberate this corner of the world from totalitarianism I am happy to see it happen.

[Deutschmania]

I am glad that at least no one was harmed in the downing of the balloon , unlike with the U2 spy plane that the United States had sent over the U.S.S.R. , in the '60's . The parallel between the two incidents I have found to be strikingly noteworthy. The United States , in its display of outrage , is demonstrating its own hypocrisy, as it has up to now violated the airspace of numerous other countries, including most notably the People's Republic of China, from day one, and in addition conducts aerial surveillance on its own citizens. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And before attempting to remove the speck from the eye of other nations should first remove the plank from its own eye. P.S. Clueless Pres. Trump hadn't even realized that during his own administration, the Chinese had balloons winding up traveling over U.S. airspace on three separate occasions. They had apparently been written off as being UFOs.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/02/pentagon-balloons-surveillance-midwest , https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-china-surveillance-balloon-united-states-20230213-n52l66qc2ffspb3cv6dvfkjske-story.html , https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64547394 , https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/02/13/spy-balloon-cold-war-china-us/ , https://jacobin.com/2023/02/united-states-china-tensions-balloon-american-interventionism-drones-missiles

[late]

Two things should happen.

1 Biden should be impeached, any doubts that China Joe is not a traitor have been removed.

2 There should be military retaliation against China. it doesn't have to be big but it must be enough to completly humiliate Xi and China on the world stage.

That's nuts.

[Fasces]

Satellite Images Reveal Chinese Balloon Bases

China’s spy balloon took off from a base on Hainan Island along the country’s southern coast, American intelligence reportedly believes. New satellite imagery obtained by researchers shows that the island is home to a balloon launch facility.

Researchers at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies identified the facility in satellite imagery captured by space imaging firm Planet Labs. It’s unclear if the facility identified in the imagery is related to the spy balloon which crossed the U.S. earlier this month. But the discovery follows reporting from The Washington Post late Tuesday that U.S. intelligence officials now think the People’s Liberation Army launched the infamous spy balloon from Hainan with the intent of spying on U.S. military bases in the Pacific.

Lair, who identified the facility along with colleagues Michael Duitsman and Tricia White, says his team also found imagery of the location hosting airships in Google Earth.

“The entire facility is surrounded by a perimeter security fence and also includes three large radomes,” used to house radar antennas, says Lair. The 140 meter launch pad also has what appears to be launch equipment visible in the satellite imagery, which was captured in mid-January.

[...] (Some neat pictures there also)
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/sat ... 29505.html

[ness31]

I am glad that at least no one was harmed in the downing of the balloon , unlike with the U2 spy plane that the United States had sent over the U.S.S.R. , in the '60's . The parallel between the two incidents I have found to be strikingly noteworthy. The United States , in its display of outrage , is demonstrating its own hypocrisy, as it has up to now violated the airspace of numerous other countries, including most notably the People's Republic of China, from day one, and in addition conducts aerial surveillance on its own citizens. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And before attempting to remove the speck from the eye of other nations should first remove the plank from its own eye. P.S. Clueless Pres. Trump hadn't even realized that during his own administration, the Chinese had balloons winding up traveling over U.S. airspace on three separate occasions. They had apparently been written off as being UFOs.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/02/pentagon-balloons-surveillance-midwest , https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-china-surveillance-balloon-united-states-20230213-n52l66qc2ffspb3cv6dvfkjske-story.html , https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64547394 , https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/02/13/spy-balloon-cold-war-china-us/ , https://jacobin.com/2023/02/united-states-china-tensions-balloon-american-interventionism-drones-missiles

Great post, Thankyou.

It appears Russian missiles dating back to 1960 managed to take out a US spy plane, but in 2023 a US missile misses a balloon on its first go. I guess it never hurts to blow the dust off your missile systems eh?

I love the fact that when concocting a story they went with a ‘weather event’…great post.

[Fasces]

US tracked Chinese balloon from launch, may have accidentally drifted: Official

U.S. intelligence agencies tracked the Chinese spy balloon from its launch in China and watched as it may have been inadvertently blown into U.S. airspace, a U.S. official has confirmed to ABC News.

This latest revelation differs significantly from the previous narrative related by the White House and U.S. military officials over recent days, which has changed repeatedly since the balloon's existence became public when it was spotted over Montana on Feb. 1.

On Wednesday, the State Department referred questions on the balloon's intended path and when it was first tracked to the Pentagon, which referred questions to the National Security Council (NSC) at the White House.

But State Department spokesperson Ned Price said that whether the aircraft was blown off course had no impact on the U.S. assessment that the incursion was a violation of U.S. sovereignty.

"In some ways it doesn't matter, and I'm not going to opine on what the PRC (People's Republic of China) may or may not have intended, but in key ways it doesn't matter. It's completely immaterial. It's immaterial because this was a high-altitude surveillance balloon that did violate our airspace. It did violate international law," he said.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-watc ... d=97220283

What a wonderful 2 weeks of outrage we've gotten out of this one.

[ingliz]