NATO expansion in to Asia. - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15276921
Political Interest wrote:...I see a day in future where America will leave Asia as well, once it has fulfilled its obligations to Korea and a stable post-American unified East Asia can be imagined and realised...


So first White Man's Burden, and then the West leaves Asia?

What if Asia has plans for 'fixing up the USA?' How long will these Asian armies need to stay here to 'make a difference?'

The same length of time that the British were in Ireland makind a difference? :roll:
#15277169
QatzelOk wrote:So first White Man's Burden, and then the West leaves Asia?

What if Asia has plans for 'fixing up the USA?' How long will these Asian armies need to stay here to 'make a difference?'

The same length of time that the British were in Ireland makind a difference? :roll:


I'm not speaking about fixing up Asia or teaching the peoples of Asia about how to live or how to organise their countries. However, I know that there are a lot of people in places like Korea and Japan that want a Western presence for the purposes of security. Japan, for example, does not even have a proper armed forces and until it does it would be disloyal and irresponsible to just withdraw without them being in a position to defend themselves. Korea is the same, if America withdraws from Korea too soon that could invite conflict from Korean communists and withdrawing in such a way is dishonorable. It is rather similar to how the Western forces withdrew from Afghanistan leaving all of the Afghans who worked with us behind. The same in Vietnam.

But in the course of time a day should come where the West leaves Asia and let the peoples of Asia manage their affairs without our interference.

It is for this reason that I am against Europe going back to Asia. We should be trying to leave this part of the world as much as we can.
#15277223
Political Interest wrote:...a day should come where the West leaves Asia and let the peoples of Asia manage their affairs without our interference.

It is for this reason that I am against Europe going back to Asia. We should be trying to leave this part of the world as much as we can.

This is such a mild criticism of colonialism that it ends up sounding like Winston Churchill would have said.

Here's a quote from him that sounds like your above quoted text:

Quoting Winston Churchill, Libquotes wrote:I think we shall have to take the Chinese in hand and regulate them. I believe that as civilized nations become more powerful they will get more ruthless, and the time will come when the world will impatiently bear the existence of great barbaric nations who may at any time arm themselves and menace civilized nations. I believe in the ultimate partition of China—I mean ultimate. I hope we shall not have to do it in our day. The Aryan stock is bound to triumph.


Like you, Churchill is saying that *unfortunately, white people must dominate others.* The qualifying words that you use to soften your white supremacy... don't really work on people who have studied propaganda or rhetoric.
#15277251
QatzelOk wrote:This is such a mild criticism of colonialism that it ends up sounding like Winston Churchill would have said.

Like you, Churchill is saying that *unfortunately, white people must dominate others

:lol: Yes history can be irritating (to the Liberals). Its one of the unfortunate facts of history that Winston Churchill was a "White Supremacist" and Adolph Hitler was not. Adolph Hitler was A German nationalist Austrian bigot, who tried to dress up his ethnic nationalist prejudice in the garb of morphological "scientific" racism. So fraudulent was the Nazis so called "White Supremacism", that when they introduced their racial marriage laws they forgot to include Black Africans. :lol: As I say you just can't make this stuff up.

Although Winston Churchill was a war monger, he did at least try and limit the loss of British life. He even wept when he saw the results of the allied bombing on Germany. Even his Dardanelles adventure was intended to save lives not throw them away. With 3 million Indians dying in the Bengal famine there is a case to be made that Churchill was a little more careless when it came to the lives of "non-White" people, At the very least I lean towards the view that if 3 million British had starved to death in World War II we would hear a lot more about it in our history books.

Adolph Hitler on the other hand was a genius. A world leading genius. And what was his area of brilliance, his area of genius? In getting "White people" to exterminate each other. His spirit seems to live on today in the Russia Ukraine war. "White men" slaughtering "White men", have we finally found a forever war that the Liberals can really get behind?
#15277282
Rich wrote: ...Its one of the unfortunate facts of history that Winston Churchill was a "White Supremacist" and Adolph Hitler was not...


Because of our propaganda history and media, you can find a lot of these "ironies" if you take a step back.

For example, all the NATO expansions and USA military bases were constructed *with the publically expressed purpose of* stopping other countries from "taking over the world" or "expanding to the point of interfering in other country's sovereignty."

Likewise, governments all over the world are violently overthrown in order to *install democracy* against the popular will of the people who live under these imposed "democracies."

George Orwell really had his work cut out for him. All he had to do was project the governance system of the West into the future a bit.
#15277286
Rich wrote:
As I say you just can't make this stuff up.



You do, all the time.

Because England was a global trader, they had a lot of people in their empire going there to work or conduct business.

This wasn't the case with Germany, they were quite racist before Hitler was born. I've always had trouble reconciling the bigotry I've personally seen with their embrace of Modernity.
#15277293
QatzelOk wrote:This is such a mild criticism of colonialism that it ends up sounding like Winston Churchill would have said.


I don't support partitioning China or think they are barbarians and I don't want Western domination in Asia, but withdrawing from Asia in an improper way would be irresponsible. What do you not understand? Maybe you would like a repeat of Afghanistan.

QatzelOk wrote:Like you, Churchill is saying that *unfortunately, white people must dominate others.* The qualifying words that you use to soften your white supremacy... don't really work on people who have studied propaganda or rhetoric.


Where did I say this? There are people in Korea and Japan who want the Western presence there, and until conditions are suitable to withdraw it would be betraying those people if the West just left immediately. Japan does not even have a proper military, if America leaves Japan then what?
#15277408
Political Interest wrote:...withdrawing from Asia in an improper way would be irresponsible. What do you not understand? Maybe you would like a repeat of Afghanistan...


It's true that, if you stab someone deeply in the chest, withdrawing that knife too quickly afterwards might end up killing them.

Question: Why does NATO-USA stab so many small nations in the chest?

Question 2: Why do you think that the withdrawal of the knife (withdrawing from Afghanistan) was the biggest crime?

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