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#15274383
litwin wrote:https://youtu.be/KGS-VN10V0k

Well we shouldn't just blindly accept Russian propaganda, but neither should we blindly accept Ukrainian propaganda. Crimea was not part of Kievan Rus nor was the Donabas, nor as far as I can make out was the northern coast of the Sea of Azov.

Russia needs to be contained, but the video only goes to support what I have said all along that Ukraine and the West should have accepted the succession of Crimea. Yes at some vague time in the future Crimea might be of benefit to Ukraine and by extension at some point it might provide a net befit to the West, but the costs to get that destination could be enormous. Remember some people even fantasied that Afghanistan could be made profitable. Even if it had been the case that that the majority of Crimeans supported staying in Ukraine in 2014, which seems extremely unlikely that's assuredly not the case now.

Some territories have been Russified and some territories have been Ukrainised. The rest of the Europe took endless wars, conflicts and struggles to finalise their borders. The Communists deliberately tried to make sure that the constituent Republics of the Soviet Union were not cohesive nation states.
#15274401
Rich wrote:Well we shouldn't just blindly accept Russian propaganda, but neither should we blindly accept Ukrainian propaganda. Crimea was not part of Kievan Rus nor was the Donabas, nor as far as I can make out was the northern coast of the Sea of Azov.

Russia needs to be contained, but the video only goes to support what I have said all along that Ukraine and the West should have accepted the succession of Crimea. Yes at some vague time in the future Crimea might be of benefit to Ukraine and by extension at some point it might provide a net befit to the West, but the costs to get that destination could be enormous. Remember some people even fantasied that Afghanistan could be made profitable. Even if it had been the case that that the majority of Crimeans supported staying in Ukraine in 2014, which seems extremely unlikely that's assuredly not the case now.

Some territories have been Russified and some territories have been Ukrainised. The rest of the Europe took endless wars, conflicts and struggles to finalise their borders. The Communists deliberately tried to make sure that the constituent Republics of the Soviet Union were not cohesive nation states.


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