Trump Indicted for Jan 6 - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15282359
wat0n wrote:
Indeed, unlike this one where there's honestly a lot yet to be known, Trump can be flagrantly heard breaking the law. That's the most important indictment, once that gets tried everything else will fall in line.


I'm sure he will get away with it.
#15282363
wat0n wrote:
How? There's flagrancy

I can imagine he gets a way out if he's not indicted in the Georgia case. But it sounds unlikely...


The amount of leniency he's already receiving doesn't look to be letting up. Trump will get away with all of this.

Best we can hope for is that she slips, breaks a hip and dies. That is what I want.
#15282368
I can see it being swept up under the rug somehow. Neither party wants to start a tradition of holding former presidents accountable.

But if anything is going to stick, it's the Georgia call. Ultimately I don't think even the most pearl clutching lib can get worked up over secret documents. They see it as more of a decorum thing. And the scope of the security breach can't be described without giving away secrets.
#15282370
SpecialOlympian wrote:I can see it being swept up under the rug somehow. Neither party wants to start a tradition of holding former presidents accountable.

But if anything is going to stick, it's the Georgia call. Ultimately I don't think even the most pearl clutching lib can get worked up over secret documents. They see it as more of a decorum thing. And the scope of the security breach can't be described without giving away secrets.


Georgian call isn't the worst of it. He did ask Pence to do many bad things that would go under attempts to falsify the election or things of the sort. Pence is a religious constitutionalist so he will tell the court everything.

There is no path that Trumps defence can take after Pence talks in court I suppose.
By wat0n
#15282375
JohnRawls wrote:Georgian call isn't the worst of it. He did ask Pence to do many bad things that would go under attempts to falsify the election or things of the sort. Pence is a religious constitutionalist so he will tell the court everything.

There is no path that Trumps defence can take after Pence talks in court I suppose.


Maybe. But the call is different because Trump's clearly on tape pressuring election officials to "find" him votes.
#15282385
wat0n wrote:Maybe. But the call is different because Trump's clearly on tape pressuring election officials to "find" him votes.


How so? Pence was clearly asked to do what is illegal and he said no, now they changed their tune that it was just to "postpone" the count and he is clearly saying it was WAY WAY WAY more than just to postpone the count. The not certify the election thing and create a new fake college of electors and things like that. He is not gonna keep silent about this because it goes against everything he believes in.
#15282386
The Trump team knew they couldn't outright ask Pence to change the results so Trump did his best impression of a mafioso to try and persuade him. Pence kept notes on these phone calls. And I think Pence is a huge, homophobic piece of shit with the sensibilities of a 8 year old with his love of Garfield, but he's an upright and rigid man who made the right choice. Even if it was an easy one that anyone would make.

Pence has notes. And there's numerous witnesses to the calls that could be summoned, and ones who would flip on Trump to save their own ass. But the Georgia phone call to the Secretary of State overseeing the election was recorded. And it's very obvious Trump is leaning on him to "find" enough votes to win. It's Trump's voice, other famous dipshits from his administration are on the call, it's all very easily verifiable. And caught in the moment.

Assuming America has any capability of holding people in power to account, this is the charge that's going to stick if nothing else will. And if it doesn't then lol we're fucked.
User avatar
By Beren
#15282390
Rancid wrote:I'm sure he will get away with it.

He can certainly get barred from participating in the conduct of public affairs, voting and being elected at elections, though. Would you insist on seeing him handcuffed and jailed, however? :lol:
By wat0n
#15282393
JohnRawls wrote:How so? Pence was clearly asked to do what is illegal and he said no, now they changed their tune that it was just to "postpone" the count and he is clearly saying it was WAY WAY WAY more than just to postpone the count. The not certify the election thing and create a new fake college of electors and things like that. He is not gonna keep silent about this because it goes against everything he believes in.


"Beyond reasonable doubt". Those 3 words are key - if anything fulfills that standard it's having Trump's voice itself in the mix. Not just Pence's notes or whatever, but Trump himself.
#15282400
Beren wrote:He can certainly get barred from participating in the conduct of public affairs, voting and being elected at elections, though. Would you insist on seeing him handcuffed and jailed, however? :lol:


The chance to bar him was squandered. Republicans stopped that.

and I'd rather see him dead (of natural causes).
#15282405
Haha "Beyond reasonable doubt" ! When the whole case is complete bullocks, more so than their previous attempts. :eh: But "thankfully" Trump wont get a neutral jury. :roll:

In another forum one conservative poster said it the best: every day something dirty about Biden pops up, the next day the DOJ comes up with another indictment charges against Trump.

By the way you can doubt any US election on principle. They use every trick in the book, always have, and then some.

Most recently they've introduced the worst weapon of them all, election computers. As a programmer this idea is so braindead :knife: its just unbelievable. Well, not really unbelievable, but amazingly obviously corrupt.

Nevermind these are shitty windows computers with poor security, not getting patched for years. The company which produces these could rig them. Any government branch worth its money, especially the secret services, could rig them. And in both cases it would be excessively hard to prove unless you would separately document the votes and compare. Which of course doesnt happen. The whole idea to use computers for such a super sensitive task is just amazingly retarded. Or super corrupt. Your choice.
By late
#15282409
Negotiator wrote:
every day something dirty about Biden pops up



Nearly all of which is fiction.

Not only is Trump clearly guilty, he has said as much (for most of the charges) because the moron never knows when to shut up.

You need better lies, esp. when they're Russian...
#15282423
late wrote:the moron never knows when to shut up

Trump could be jailed sooner than you think as he continues to violate conditions of release.

“I want to remind you that it is a crime to try to influence a juror or to threaten or attempt to bribe a witness or any other person who may have information about your case, or to retaliate against anyone for providing information about your case to the prosecution, or to otherwise obstruct the administration of justice.”

The judge then warned Trump: “You have heard your conditions of release. It is important you comply. You may be held pending trial in this case if you violate the conditions of release.”

She asked Trump: “Do you understand these warnings and consequence, sir? Are you prepared to comply?”

Trump responded: “Yes.”

But not 24 hours later, Trump posted on social media a message that could be understood as an attempt to influence potential jurors or retaliate against any witness prepared to testify against him: He wrote: “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!”



:lol:
By late
#15282424
ingliz wrote:
Trump could be jailed sooner than you think as he continues to violate conditions of release.

“I want to remind you that it is a crime to try to influence a juror or to threaten or attempt to bribe a witness or any other person who may have information about your case, or to retaliate against anyone for providing information about your case to the prosecution, or to otherwise obstruct the administration of justice.”

The judge then warned Trump: “You have heard your conditions of release. It is important you comply. You may be held pending trial in this case if you violate the conditions of release.”

She asked Trump: “Do you understand these warnings and consequence, sir? Are you prepared to comply?”

Trump responded: “Yes.”

But not 24 hours later, Trump posted on social media a message that could be understood as an attempt to influence potential jurors or retaliate against any witness prepared to testify against him: He wrote: “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!”





I wish.

The legal beagles I've seen have said that the judge will move slowly because of the political campaign.

But that might not be a bad thing:

https://www.dorfonlaw.org/2023/08/delay-delay-delay-it-would-be-good-for.html
#15282429
ingliz wrote:Trump could be jailed sooner than you think as he continues to violate conditions of release.


He won't get jailed. THe two tier justice system is protecting him.
#15282436
That asshole ex president will never see the inside of a jail cell. The US is not different than every other tin pot third world country out there....they will protect the ones with power at all costs. Finally the world knows the USA is corrupt to the core and is totally hypocritical about double standards and bullshit. I knew it all along but somehow many people in the USA are snowed for generations about America being some exceptional place with real laws and fairness and a bunch of lies. Do not live in denial. Accept what is reality. You do that? You got a shot at fixing the problems. But if you keep stubbornly making excuses and not accepting that the US government is corrupt to the core and acts as bad as a mafia syndicate defending its profits and its territories and it is a nation of drug addiction problems, no worker protections like unions and so on, and dissolved civil rights and weak commitments of environmental protections and totally betraying any sense of responsibilities for raping the Earth and being bullies with other governments and other nations...and repeating the mistakes of the other Empires from Europe in history? You have zero chance of fixing the problems.

If you keep believing in myth and not truth? You have nothing.

It does not matter what system of government you ascribe to and economic model you back. If you lie and deny what is reality and only want your myth to survive and you do nothing to change what is wrong you are asking for a collapse and a total chaotic meltdown of your entire society.

Trump is a symptom of a system that has been rotting for a long time. No one cares in the USA system about Puerto Rico and its lack of power. Or Guam or American Samoa or abuse of the US government against Guatemalan attempts at democracy, or Honduran attempts or any other nation they have fucking abused for a long time. Got to keep covering up the shit and deny and deny.

It has to stop. Accept responsibility and do something to stop the crap from getting worse. But no....we are not worth an effort to give justice to. There is a complete failure to understand why slave owners never give up their slaves. Why kings in monarchies refuse to give up inherited power. Why these proven bad systems never change without exploding first in revolutions and upheavals. It is simple. They refuse to accept reality. They want to keep things the same even though they know that their behavior is causing the pressure. Accept the responsibility of wrongdoing and injustice and horrible leadership. Accept you are greedy, liars, and cheats and unworthy of power. Then get rid of those people and start anew. Do it with deliberate intents to right the problems. If you lack the courage to do so....then do not be assholes when the nation is pushed off the power seat, loses power, becomes poverty dumpy places ridden with crime and chaos and decay....and no tears. You CHOSE that shit due to lack of courage.
User avatar
By Beren
#15282487
Rancid wrote:The chance to bar him was squandered. Republicans stopped that.

I mean he can get barred by the court, can't he?

Rancid wrote:He won't get jailed.

I wonder if he can get a suspended prison sentence, though, plus getting barred from participating in the conduct of public affairs, voting and being elected at elections as extra punishment.

If it's only for a political show with no legal consequence to Trump, it may rather be counterproductive.
#15282488
@Beren

If they wanted that, they should have charged him with insurrection.

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the ...

— 18 USC 2383: Rebellion or insurrection - U.S. Code


They didn't.


;)
User avatar
By Beren
#15282489
ingliz wrote:If they wanted that, they should have charged him with insurrection.

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the ...

— 18 USC 2383: Rebellion or insurrection - U.S. Code


They didn't.


;)

So what will he be charged with? What could he be charged with for the Georgia thing, for example?
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