[Rancid]

The answer is what the Mexicans did in 2018. After three election cycles where the two dirtball parties did every dirty trick in the books, the people responded with a third party composed of smaller parties that worked for decades to build themselves up and challenge the system. They built power on the least of society. The majority are poor and lower middle class, tiny microbusiness owners, women, indigenous people. The majority of Mexico. The true democracy base. Not the elite and the powerful.

But, the difference is that the third party that kicked ass in 2018, were not people who vote for Trump people thinking that some conman asshole elitist authoritarian is going to be the answer to working class regular folk. You need a change in values of the American 40%. And you do not have that. I always knew that the USA had a very deep and rotten fascist core. It is there. In their love of violence, war spending and imperialism. I told you that Puerto Rico is part of that problem. They do not give a shit about democracy for us or anyone around the world. They interfere to KILL democracy if it interferes with the objectives of holding on to power all over the globe. So they KILLED their own democracy with that shitty mentality. The chickens came home to roost Rancid.

All the brainwashed who believed in democracy at home and freedom at home, and were not paying attention to their fascist violence in their foreign interventions do not see the connections between what you do in foreign policy, reflects the deep underbelly of who is pulling the strings of power at home.

Eventually they do that at home Rancid. Not just in the foreign policy realms.

Puerto Rico, Guam, Phillipines, DR, Cuba, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Colombia, Chile, etc. interventions by the USA government was about raw power, violence, invasions and lack of respect for democracy as a process of determining the path of governments who believed in the republican form of votes and rule.

The USA loves violence and force. It shows it in everything. It will eventually apply that underbelly sickness that was left unchecked, for a long time to its own domestic problems.

The racist fascist element was left unmolested for decades and generations. Now, it is coming for POWER. And unless the working class start getting extremely organized and insistent like the Mexicans had to do to get rid of PRI, and PAN monopolies on government power since the 1930s....since the thirties in Mexico the elite took over a radical revolutionary land reform platform party and made is an elitist, corrupt, piece of shit bourgeois ruling class party that fucked the Mexican workers for entire generations. They got fed up with the gridlock, the sellout behavior, the lack of action on needed social programs and infrastructure. They got into action, and they KICKED ass.

My husband got contacted by the Morena party here in Mexico. All retirement age people will be getting a big increase in social security or old age pension checks in the mail if they are 60 and older. Once they hit perm status and citizenship status they get that check. That is going to transform this nation, they started sending checks to young people to study, they are going to be constructing new schools, hospitals, etc. They are busting moves everywhere. The checks are there in their hot little hands. Everyone is voting for the third party who kicked those other two in the ass.

The ones talking violence against MORENA are super wealthy people and corporations. Walmart is pissed because they taxed them to death in Mexico and so are the Ford Maquiladora of auto parts, and others. Taxed hard for the first time in their lives. They also froze funds of a bunch of Drug Cartels. Froze the money. They are threatening death and terroristic threats. But if they can't pay the hitmen because their fucking money is frozen? It is laughable.

Emma the widow of El Chapo is on TV talking about how her poor husband is locked up in Florence, Colorado in the SuperMax prison locked in a cell 23 hours a day and it is harsh and unusual punishment and her husband needs his rights to be respected. Human rights. Meanwhile, all those people El Chapo killed while he made nearly a billion dollars was never worried about.

The USA has a human problem. Humans who are corrupt who refuse to give up power, wealth or influence. So?

You either stop the fucked up USA first world consumer culture brainwashing mentality. Identify you are WORKING CLASS and Lower Middle Class. Not rich or a plutocrat. You got the same fucked up problem as other nations struggling with an elite who will not do jack shit for the lower classes. Organize yourself and kick ass with a third party.

Otherwise you will be faced with what happened in Chile in 1973. A strongman who is going to remain in power via powerful dummies who love violence for solving conflict for the next 25 years or so until people get tired of the strongman pig and go for a Leftist with democracy. Not some milktoast corrupt neoliberal like Biden. Get rid of those fucks. They never work.

That is what the answer is. Hard work. Confrontation and kicking ass. The solution.

A 3rd party would be wonderful.

[ingliz]

@skinster

So, the CPGB-ML asked its members to vote for the man ranked second in The Daily Telegraph's Top 100 most influential right-wingers poll in 2013, behind Prime Minister David Cameron.

[skinster]

I am amused my position on gender identity politics has upset you so much so that your MO these days is trying to attack me and always failing . Go and research everything you wish to complain about on CPGB-ML, me and other members are forever amused at the hate we get from libs like you and how butthurt you get because of us not going along with the lie that men can be women based on their feelings. Just a heads up, the other whiners have never got us to change our positions and you won't either. Do you think if I was concerned about being attacked for the party I'm in I would have shared it with you after being clear on my politics about transgender lunacy? I am proud of my party being one amongst a handful in the West that aren't radlibs.

Best of luck on your next go or the one after that or the one after that, since you definitely need it.

Back on topic:

[annatar1914]

A 3rd party would be wonderful.

@Rancid :

Most of the time when one US party has lost touch, a third party will arise as another party implodes. Then the third party takes first or second place, and the older party disintegrates into nothing. Thus in the 1850s the two parties were the Democrats and the Whigs. The Republican party formed out of smaller parties and the Whigs disappeared, a few becoming Republicans.

[ingliz]

@skinster

I've no interest whatsoever in changing your position. Your positions are the best laughs I've had for ages.

Please, keep them coming.

Nigel Farage...

[skinster]

Yeah, sounds like it. I saw you get emotional in the other thread. You've turned into a little whiny bitch ever since I started disagreeing with you on that topic and so you have to notify every single one of your posts at me like someone who got told no on a date and can't accept it, so instead opts for harassment and being a dick in general. You're not the first person I've come across who acts like this, but I will let you know since you're not subtle at all. Not every thread is about your obsession with me. This one is about U.S. politics and libs like you who have Trump Derangement Syndrome so maybe you should keep on topic and continue further whining in the gender-related threads which there are plenty of.

Back on topic:

[Rancid]

@Rancid :

Most of the time when one US party has lost touch, a third party will arise as another party implodes. Then the third party takes first or second place, and the older party disintegrates into nothing. Thus in the 1850s the two parties were the Democrats and the Whigs. The Republican party formed out of smaller parties and the Whigs disappeared, a few becoming Republicans.

A sustained 3rd party then.

[ingliz]

I saw you get emotional in the other thread.

I doubt it.

As for poking you, how else will I get you to tell me what your the CPGB-ML's laughable 'positions' are?

[skinster]

They have a website. Go off!

But stop derailing every thread, you bore. Make a separate one on CPGB alone if you wish.

Looks like somebody is going to announce running independent

[ingliz]

stop derailing every thread, you bore

You brought the CPGB-ML into this thread, not me, with your bullshit about Nigel Farage's bank account. A Coutts' account, by the way, that he didn't have the £3 million minimum deposit just sitting there to keep open (He must have had it at one time, though).

Trivia:

Coutts was the late Queen's bank and is now the King's.

[Tainari88]

A 3rd party would be wonderful.

A third party in the USA is going to take tremendous amount of work and dedication. It will be like hell trying to build a coalition out of a bunch of different interests parties. You could get the Ralph Nader Green Party in there, the Democratic Socialists of America that has been growing in membership by leaps and bounds, you could get a gay rights organization that is more radical. You can get freedom for women's rights parties, theocratic socialists, Antifa, Black Panthers and every rag tag group with a grudge against the two major establishment parties. They will not agree on a vast majority of issues. You can throw in your Andrew Yang and UBI and some liberalistic reformers but more radical. But the key is to hash out which issues are the most pressing and important for all of the parties. Identify that and then mobilize them and hit hard the small towns, middle sized towns, big cities, one by one. Working it hard. Grassroots hard. Reject corporate money outright. And just small donations. But organized. Go and open a platform and a channel that is inexpensive and hit it hard all the time with planned debates of interest that is hashed out among the diverse groups.

Then put candidates that are vetted very well up against the establishment party. People who are excellent debaters and are well educated and informed on the identified issues up for changing.

You then go again and again, hit them hard. Pound the pavement. Do not waste your time on districts that are all Republican MAGA people. Waste of time. Hit the undecided and the uninvolved and the ones who are frustrated. Go for them. Attack with the college campus public universities filled with young people needing relief from student loans. They alone are 40 million people.

You keep going and going. You then picket in front of the businesses and corporations identified funding these undemocratic assholes like BlackRock, and others. You do not let up. Call the executives in burned cell phones later constantly nonstop until they either give up data on their activities or make them paranoid about being associated with corrupt politicians. Pressure that is HARD TO TAKE. Make them sweat hard. The pressure over time will reveal them as either violent dictators willing to mass kill or they will run away from the issues and hide. Thus you neutralized their asses or you exposed them out in the open so you can field a direct hit with their lack of being able to lie constantly in public out of the problem. This includes confrontations on social media. Because they will come up with puppet sock accounts, fake bots and fake trolls trying to smear. The key is constant confrontation.

It is a long-term fight because the American public has allowed the casino capitalistic element and the fascists in the military and in GOP and corporate industries in the USA and big Banks, and investment firms to seize a deep-seated control of the entire apparatus. It is going to take what they should have been fighting a long time ago to resolve. Like a cancer. You allowed it to keep going without treatments and without attacking it to make it go away while it was manageable? Now it is going to be massive intensity to get it under control.

If you do not give it enough resistance the authoritarians will seize control. No doubt about that. Eventually, their dogged insistence on wanting to impose on the rest will prevail.

All you need for evil to triumph is for enough good people to not resist either in time or with enough force. That is reality.

[annatar1914]

A sustained 3rd party then.

@Rancid :

Funny, we had the Reform Party, and Donald Trump of all people swept in and deliberately destroyed that, back in the 1990s. Couldn't allow the Right, represented by Pat Buchanan, and the Left, represented by Lenora Fulani, get together on one ticket and succeed.

[Tainari88]

@Rancid :

Funny, we had the Reform Party, and Donald Trump of all people swept in and deliberately destroyed that, back in the 1990s. Couldn't allow the Right, represented by Pat Buchanan, and the Left, represented by Lenora Fulani, get together on one ticket and succeed.

A third party has always been feared in US politics. And the way they have combated it has always been making sure the third party never had enough money or people willing to lead it properly.

The lack of leadership is astounding.

Also, both parties are AGING. The death of Dianne Feinstein from San Francisco in her 90th year. That woman was still on the house floor with dementia and a severely impaired judgment factor...she still would not let go of power.

I happen to think you need to realize how intense leadership positions are in politics. No one should feel they got to stay in the hot seat for decades. It is ridiculous. You need to have some depth in the bench of political parties. A lot of competent people to take up the slack when the leaders are burned out. You cannot have these forever in the damn position politicians. Got to have people who study what went before but have more energy and good values and a good background.

I do not trust slick talkers who do not do much in terms of action. Got to rid the world of those people. It is difficult getting decent leadership that is energetic and also experienced enough to do it right.

[skinster]

Also, both parties are AGING.

The death of Dianne Feinstein

Somebody re-named her Not So Feinstein.

[Rancid]

I forgot who said this, but basically the issue of people in congress being super old is a symptom and not the cause of the actual problems. Basically, it's wealthy people that are unwilling to give up their power, and its easy for them to keep it, because they are wealthy and have power.

In short, it's really a class/wealth issue.

Also, these people are perfectly happy with us complaining about their age, because it misses the real issue (their wealth).

[SpecialOlympian]

RFK running as an independent is funny because the only people supporting him are loud, conservative voices and assorted cranks. He will peel off more GOP voters than democrats.

Also I’m sure at some point he will do something stupid like casually drop a hard R n-bomb or like bend over to Velcro his shoes and fart into the microphone because he’s just an inherently ridiculous person.

[QatzelOk]

He will peel off more GOP voters than democrats.

You are writing as if the two major parties are legitimate, and the third party is just a spoiler.

In fact, the two major parties are both owned by the same corporations now, and if the American people want to stop Fascism, they will have to look elsewhere.

Of course, the American people would have to be able to identify fascism before they can hope to stop it.

[skinster]

You are writing as if the two major parties are legitimate, and the third party is just a spoiler.

Dems always blame a third party whilst simultaneously pretending they're into democracy and never ever looking at why many have little to no interest in supporting their corrupt warmongering party. Latter can describe the other wing of the so bird too, before "Democratic" dorks start calling communists lovers of Republicans.

[skinster]

Ah, "the deplorables" line worked really well last time and totally did not backfire.

[skinster]

Ah, "the deplorables" line worked really well last time and totally did not backfire.


Bernie's had protesters arrested for holding placards of his own words.