Libertarian/An-cap candidate Javier Milei wins Argentina primary elections - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15283291
AP wrote:Argentine peso plunges after shaggy-haired rightist who admires Trump comes first in primary vote

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) — The Argentine peso plunged Monday after a shaggy-haired 52-year—old anti-establishment candidate who admires former President Donald Trump came first in primary elections that will help determine the country’s next president.

Javier Milei rocked Argentina’s political establishment Sunday by receiving the biggest share of primary votes for presidential candidates in the October general election to determine who leads a nation battered by economic woes.

Milei wants to replace the peso with the dollar, and says that Argentina’s Central Bank should be abolished, and that he thinks climate change is a lie. He has characterized sex education as a ploy to destroy the family and has said that he believes the sale of human organs should be legal and it should be easier for Argentines to own handguns.

Argentina’s government decided to devalue the local currency by 20% early Monday morning after the surprising Milei showing that turned Argentina into the latest country where voters have chosen an outsider candidate to express anger against the status quo. Two mainstream political coalitions have traded power for a decade in Argentina.

Operators were watching nervously Monday as the value of the peso also decreased in the parallel, or blue, market, dropping 12% by early afternoon.

Argentina requires that citizens vote, and 69 percent of the country’s 35 million voters went to the polls, each choosing candates for positions ranging from local councilman to president.

The major parties had contested races to be its presidential candiate. Millei was uncontested, and got a few points more than the candidates of parties that have dominated Argentine politics.


The result is important because of the bolded part.

This guy is pretty damn crazy, but this is the result of the exhaustion felt by many Argentinians resulting from decades of Peronism and a 3-digit inflation.

An example of his insanity:

#15284052
I have read , and heard somewhat about the 2023 Argentine General Election. Since Argentina , unlike the United States, has a parliamentary system , rather than presidential, it will all come down to who all can form a governing coalition. I do not really expect that Javier Milei will wind up being successful in getting enough votes for his party coalition lists to win outright, and I rather doubt that any other coalition parties would be willing and/or able to enter into a power sharing agreement with someone so hardline. And while I personally might prefer it if someone such as Myriam Bregman would prevail in garnering an outright majority of the votes, that doesn't seem to me to be very likely either. I believe that in all likelihood , the winner with be one of either three coalitions of parties , Union for the Homeland , Together for Change , or last and possibly least likely of all the right-Peronist We Do For Our Country .
#15295839
wat0n wrote:An example of his insanity:


I don't understand Spanish, but it looks like he is proposing to abolish half of Argentina's cabinet ministries. That is not necessarily a bad idea, but it is not a political philosophy.

One of the biggest historical conundrums of the 20th century was the economic decline of Argentina. It began the century as one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and ended it in chronic economic crisis and stagnation. This was all the more remarkable because unlike many of the nations that ended the century wealthy -- Japan, Germany, Italy, France, etc. -- Argentina escaped serious damage in war. It just seems to have suffered consistently incompetent economic management, along with widespread corruption.
#15295841
Truth To Power wrote:I don't understand Spanish, but it looks like he is proposing to abolish half of Argentina's cabinet ministries. That is not necessarily a bad idea, but it is not a political philosophy.

One of the biggest historical conundrums of the 20th century was the economic decline of Argentina. It began the century as one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and ended it in chronic economic crisis and stagnation. This was all the more remarkable because unlike many of the nations that ended the century wealthy -- Japan, Germany, Italy, France, etc. -- Argentina escaped serious damage in war. It just seems to have suffered consistently incompetent economic management, along with widespread corruption.

Their wealth in the early 20th century was based on essentially one export good - beef. The Great Depression in its main markets - Europe and the US - destroyed demand for that good, which destroyed the Argentine economy. They never seem to have recovered from that. Take-home moral: never base your economy on one export good. I know it seems like a good idea now, but….
#15295850
wat0n wrote:Argentina has a presidential system.

If they vote the president, then yes.

Germany for example doesnt, we dont elect our president. He gets elected by 500 arbritarily chosen people, the parliament plus some celebs.

The german president also holds no actual political power, thats the chancellor.

The whole system is really born out of our monarchy. The president replaces the already highly disempowered king.
#15295872
Negotiator wrote:If they vote the president, then yes.

Germany for example doesnt, we dont elect our president. He gets elected by 500 arbritarily chosen people, the parliament plus some celebs.

The german president also holds no actual political power, thats the chancellor.

The whole system is really born out of our monarchy. The president replaces the already highly disempowered king.


Milei was indeed voted in for President.

Although what you're saying isn't technically true. Israel had a brief period using a parliamentary system with direct election for the head of government.
#15295873
Potemkin wrote:Their wealth in the early 20th century was based on essentially one export good - beef. The Great Depression in its main markets - Europe and the US - destroyed demand for that good, which destroyed the Argentine economy. They never seem to have recovered from that. Take-home moral: never base your economy on one export good. I know it seems like a good idea now, but….


Nobody ever sets out to base their economy on 1 product or industry.

Some products and industries become globally competitive and they end dragging up the entire economy with them, and down when they lose that status.

Ideally, people are supposed to use the earnings to re-invest with acceptable(.ie non-negative) ROI's.

This is the most major issue all western economies now face, today.

There are no positive ROI's to invest in anymore. That does not mean that there is nothing an individual can make money on, of course there is, but there is literally no industry a government in the west can efficiently promote with subsidies where for every penny invested it actually gets something back. In the UK particularly, all such schemes have been in the negative for about 2 decades if I'm not mistaken, if not more.

This issue has been down to cheap money, globalisation, saturation, high taxation and corporate bloatedness, and laziness.

This is the biggest economic problem the west is facing today. It cannot make money work for the industrial benefit, any money given to industries are simply wasted even when the best intentions & people are behind them. So this has gone beyond greed is what I'm saying, it is no longer about minimising corruption for even with 0 waste on people, the industries are so saturated they simply hoover up the money without really increasing their productive output, penny for penny.
#15295878
wat0n wrote:The result is important because of the bolded part.

This guy is pretty damn crazy, but this is the result of the exhaustion felt by many Argentinians resulting from decades of Peronism and a 3-digit inflation.

An example of his insanity:



Bueno, afuera. That seems to be what is going to happen to him, when everyone is fired in the Argentine government and all his bullshit not thought out well policies hit the voting public in a few years.

Pendejo de derecha anarquista capitalista de mierda, AFUERA!! :lol: :lol:
#15295879
Fasces wrote:Libertarian is a generous title for a guy opposed to drug policy reform, homosexuality, and abortion.


That abortion issue is going to sink a lot of conservative politicians. They can get away with hardlines on drug policies, and being anti-gay, but abortion? A lot of women do not want unwanted pregnancies and the government sticks their noses in their private business. And also many men do not want to be paying for 18 years of child support for a one-night stand. It is going to be hard for them to push anti abortion without political backlash Fasces.
#15295881
wat0n wrote:The result is important because of the bolded part.

This guy is pretty damn crazy, but this is the result of the exhaustion felt by many Argentinians resulting from decades of Peronism and a 3-digit inflation.

An example of his insanity:



Peronism killed Argentinas economy from best in the world to ruin. Argentina is number UNO example why self-sufficiency, ignoring globalisation, creating a protectionist economy doesn't work compared to a fully globally open economy. Peronists are the populists compared to this guy, they justified all the economic ruin by swirling it as protection of the workers. Well how did that protection work for Argentina in total? Not only economically but also in regards to corruption and culturally?

Funny thing about Argentina, the economy in there was so good in 1910s and 1920s that when they asked for loans from American banks and asked what is the limit, the answer was that credit line to Argentina is unlimited.
#15295890
JohnRawls wrote:Peronism killed Argentinas economy from best in the world to ruin. Argentina is number UNO example why self-sufficiency, ignoring globalisation, creating a protectionist economy doesn't work compared to a fully globally open economy. Peronists are the populists compared to this guy, they justified all the economic ruin by swirling it as protection of the workers. Well how did that protection work for Argentina in total? Not only economically but also in regards to corruption and culturally?

The same reason why America and Europe is sinking economically now.

JohnRawls wrote:Funny thing about Argentina, the economy in there was so good in 1910s and 1920s that when they asked for loans from American banks and asked what is the limit, the answer was that credit line to Argentina is unlimited.

There is nothing "funny" or "magical" about it. Free markets work, government doesn't. It is scientific.
#15295895
Istanbuller wrote:The same reason why America and Europe is sinking economically now.


There is nothing "funny" or "magical" about it. Free markets work, government doesn't. It is scientific.


How are we sinking if we are the world most open economies? Europe a bit less with heavier regulations in some cases but we are still way more open compared to most Westen countries like Japan or Korea or the world in general.

If you compare just major economies that can't be tax havens then openess wise its America/Canada > EU > anybody else is 10 miles behind. Although it is a bit more complicated than just America/Canada > EU since we have more free trade agreements with the rest of the world compared to America lets say. I still think that we are 2nd due to heavy regulations in some cases which is a problem.
#15295907
Argentina's economy is about to skyrocket if folks embrace free- market economy.

JohnRawls wrote:How are we sinking if we are the world most open economies?

No, America and European countries are not open economies. Both America and Eıropeans oppose free trade. Protectionism. Anti-Globalism. Deecades of unblanatnt leftist governments. Taxing to death. Central command. Socialism. These are the reasons why America and Wsetern Europe is not going back to their glorious days in late 19th century and begining of 20th centry when America and Europe got rich for the first time.

The British Empire's number one export was capitalism. Declaration of Independence then followed it. American peasants wanted to be as free as British people.
#15295908
noemon wrote:There are no positive ROI's to invest in anymore. That does not mean that there is nothing an individual can make money on, of course there is, but there is literally no industry a government in the west can efficiently promote with subsidies where for every penny invested it actually gets something back. In the UK particularly, all such schemes have been in the negative for about 2 decades if I'm not mistaken, if not more.

This issue has been down to cheap money, globalisation, saturation, high taxation and corporate bloatedness, and laziness.

No, it's down to rent seeking. Larger and larger fractions of almost all advanced capitalist economies are based on extraction of economic rents -- returns obtained by legally depriving others of access to economic opportunity that would otherwise be accessible -- rather than production. Rents are derived from government-issued and -enforced privilege, and can't really be a basis for export industries: you can't export land titles, IP monopolies, or bank licenses -- unless you are the USA, and can back them up with military force.
This is the biggest economic problem the west is facing today. It cannot make money work for the industrial benefit, any money given to industries are simply wasted even when the best intentions & people are behind them. So this has gone beyond greed is what I'm saying, it is no longer about minimising corruption for even with 0 waste on people, the industries are so saturated they simply hoover up the money without really increasing their productive output, penny for penny.

That is not really the case. What has actually happened is that regulatory and tax environments have been tailored to favor privilege over production, so that the productive have to pay all the taxes, and rich, greedy, privileged parasites pocket all the value created by public spending in return for no contribution to its production.

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