Colorado supreme court disqualifies Trump from state’s 2024 ballot - Page 12 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15300864
ingliz wrote:@wat0n

No, he did not.

The Confederates were disenfranchised until 1870, but it wasn't until the Expatriation Act of 1868 that the US even had a means for people to renounce their citizenship.


:lol:

The Expatriation Act of 1868 asserted the principle that foreigners have the right to renounce their prior allegiance , when taking up U.S. citizenship. It didn't address the right of U.S. citizens to do likewise .
The Expatriation Act of 1868 did not explicitly create any procedure by which a U.S. citizen might exercise his or her right to give up citizenship. Existing law — namely, the Enrollment Act of 1865 § 21[13] — provided only two grounds for loss of citizenship, those being draft evasion and desertion.[11][14] The Bancroft Treaties also had provisions that naturalized U.S. citizens would be deemed to have renounced their U.S. citizenship and resumed their original citizenship if they returned to their native countries and remained there for a certain period of time. Finally, in 1873, Attorney-General George Henry Williams wrote that "the affirmation by Congress, that the right of expatriation is 'a natural and inherent right in all people' includes citizens of the United States as well as others, and the executive should give to it that comprehensive effect." However, William's statement was mostly used to justify the denaturalization of naturalized U.S. citizens.[15] In general, a naturalized American who took up a position in the government or military of his native country was considered to have given up his U.S. citizenship and resumed his original one; however, naturalized Americans who did these same acts in other countries which were not their native countries were seen as having given up their right to U.S. protection, but not to U.S. citizenship itself. In particular, the State Department did not consider that mere establishment of non-U.S. domicile was sufficient grounds for revoking U.S. citizenship.[16]

There would be no legislation regarding grounds for loss of U.S. citizenship by native-born citizens until the Expatriation Act of 1907 (34 Stat. 1228).[11][14] Before then, the State Department and the courts seemed to agree that the only act which would cause a native-born citizen to lose U.S. citizenship was voluntary acquisition of citizen or subject status in a foreign state.[17] Even foreign military service was not necessarily held to result in loss of U.S. citizenship; the precedent pointed out by Thomas F. Bayard, Secretary of State during the late 1880s, was that the U.S. did not consider the French who joined the American Revolution to have thus acquired U.S. citizenship. Similarly, voting in a foreign election was not held as definitive evidence of intent to give up citizenship, in the absence of an express acquisition of foreign citizenship and renunciation of the U.S. one.[18] However, the Expatriation Act of 1907 and subsequent legislation would thenceforth broaden the number of actions which, if undertaken voluntarily, would be considered by the U.S. government to prove the intent to lose U.S. citizenship.[19] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_Act_of_1868#Early_policies

The idea of a man renouncing his citizenship , and thereby becoming a stateless person , did however form the premise of the fictional story "The Man Without a Country" .
Whether or not Donald Trump is guilty of committing treason comes down to whether he expressed incitement to sedition .

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/07/us-capitol-breach-sedition-legal-expert-says/6577765002/
, https://news.yahoo.com/jan-6-example-networked-incitement-140216230.html , https://www.csis.org/analysis/understanding-insurrection-and-sedition , https://law.onecle.com/constitution/amendment-01/41-seditious-speech.html

P.S. The only Confederates I know of who never regained their citizenship were the Confederados , who emigrated to Brazil , thereby taking on Brazilian citizenship.



#15300872
Tainari88 wrote:The GOP Republican party is having difficulty because the demographics are changing.


I don't know, at least Haley was beating Biden 51-34 in the last poll I read.

I also don't think this change in demographics is necessarily bad for the GOP. The Republicans could actually get a sizable support among Hispanics if they played their cards well, specially among religious ones. After all, abortion here is way, way less restricted than in much of Latin America. Something like Roe v Wade is extremely radical for Chilean standards.

Tainari88 wrote:BTW, Wat0n, I am studying Chilean history a lot. It is interesting. I do not know when I will finish the book I am reading on it. Mapuche is a big influence in Chile. The Chilean indigenous history with los mapuches is interesting too.


It is. You may also be interested in reading about the 1891 civil war and the construction of the Chilean state itself in the 1820s and 1830s. Also, about the War of the Pacific.

And also about Arturo Alessandri and Carlos Ibáñez del Campo.

Tainari88 wrote:Something distinctive about the Chilean mix of qualities. I always loved all the Chilean cultural things I have run across over the years. The language is interesting. Chilenismos. I had to get used to it. I had a friend from Chile I was friends with for years. She moved to NYC. She got a PhD in environmental science and creative writing too. Very bright girl. She had a son. I think she lives in Oregon now.


We got our own cultural and linguistic quirks. In fact, if you learn Chilean Spanish you can learn any type of Spanish.

Tainari88 wrote:Interesting how Chileans love Sandwiches a lot. Lol. They love all kinds of sandwichitos. Lol.


We do! And bread itself too. I miss Chilean bread.

Tainari88 wrote:Great seafood dishes. But they love mayonnaise a lot eh? Vinitos too.


Indeed, and also other dishes like pastel de choclo (corn pie) and Chilean empanadas. Thankfully you can find those in the US.
#15300919
wat0n wrote:I also don't think this change in demographics is necessarily bad for the GOP. The Republicans could actually get a sizable support among Hispanics if they played their cards well, specially among religious ones. After all, abortion here is way, way less restricted than in much of Latin America. Something like Roe v Wade is extremely radical for Chilean standards.


Yeah, I don't know why liberals are so keen to import all these reactionaries. They're setting up the US for Caudillo rule.

Oh look how racist I am. :lol:
#15300926
Rugoz wrote:Yeah, I don't know why liberals are so keen to import all these reactionaries. They're setting up the US for Caudillo rule.

Oh look how racist I am. :lol:


Meh, Trump is himself a caudillo wannabe.

I would, if anything, say it would turn the GOP away from caudillo rule if they appealed more to Hispanics and other nonwhite groups. Unless, of course, this is somehow anathema to their ideology as a party but honestly I don't think so, although there is a faction that sees this that way.

What I do know is that abortion won't be an issue for caudillos to base their bullshit on.
#15300938
wat0n wrote:Meh, Trump is himself a caudillo wannabe...

Like so many Latin American dictators that were brought to power by Bankster money.

Image
Which one will win the next election? Blue or Red?

This whole thread is another manufactured limited hangout with a tiny little Overton window sliver.

By debating the trials and tribulations of a jailed and banned candidate, you are ignoring the more important issue... that both candidates (and most of the rest) that are being offered to you are corrupt money-controlled gangsters.

Both Biden and Trump are crap candidates, and by defending Trump's right to stay out of jail, you are just defending one turd against the other turd. They should both be put in jail. And our systems need to be overhauled pronto.

Who gets to take America's people down the toilet with him after the next "election"?... is the only real debate here.

(Has anyone else noticed how excrement-scented America's entire political class is?)
#15300968
wat0n wrote:@QatzelOk Trump and Biden are not the same...

Neither are the wicked witch of the East and the wicked witch of the West.

Which one would you vote for, Dorothy? :lol:
#15301018
OK so in 2016 you had a lot of so called working class or lower class people, people who tended to have less education who were of European race switch from Obama to Trump. So the Liberals came up with 2 explanations.

1 This was all Putin's fault. There's virtually no money in the US elections. Hence Putin could step in, spend a few roubles and steal the election by buying a few facebook ads.

2 Trump is a White Supremacist Nazi who intends to reintroduce slavery. These former Obama voters have revealed their true colours, their just Nazi, White Supremacist Confederados,

These explanations were perfectly good enough to satisfy most Liberals. However there is a problem, so called Blacks and Latino lower class voters have been shifting towards Trump as well.
#15301023
@Rich

Lower-class Blacks and Latinos

Their motivation is no different from that of the so-called 'Red Wall' Brexit voter in the UK.

You fucked us, we'll fuck you.

They think they have nothing to lose.


:lol:
#15301030
Rich wrote:1 This was all Putin's fault. There's virtually no money in the US elections. Hence Putin could step in, spend a few roubles and steal the election by buying a few facebook ads.


Where are you seeing this? I haven't seen that anywhere. ARe you making shit up again?

Rich wrote:2 Trump is a White Supremacist Nazi who intends to reintroduce slavery. These former Obama voters have revealed their true colours, their just Nazi, White Supremacist Confederados,


Probably not reintroduce slavery, but he is a piece of shit that would have no problem creating a racial class system. Anything that keeps him in power, he would do. The mount of trash you like to make up is amazing.
#15301038
Rich wrote:...in 2016 you had a lot of so called working class or lower class people, people who tended to have less education who were of European race switch from Obama to Trump. So the Liberals came up with 2 explanations.

They had to explain this because their propaganda is designed to appeal to this demographic. But their platforms aren't.

1 This was all Putin's fault. There's virtually no money in the US elections. Hence Putin could step in, spend a few roubles and steal the election by buying a few facebook ads.

That the American public is so ignorant that they believed this, means that it is now possible to fool them ALL OF THE TIME. (How many boosters did you get before you were allowed to leave your house?)

2 Trump is a White Supremacist Nazi who intends to reintroduce slavery. These former Obama voters have revealed their true colours, their just Nazi, White Supremacist Confederados,

Yes, but the Democratic party have the same hidden platform so it doesn't matter which of the two mafia-funded grifters you vote for.

We are so gullible and lack any kind of community, so we are toast. Lies are our country's new gold standard on which to base our currencies. Uh-oh....
#15301294
wat0n wrote:...Haley seems to do better than most others (like De Santis).

The reduction of American politics into a horse-race where platforms are just marketing for gullible media viewers who know nothing about governance...

Nothing is more boring that discussing which asshole will win using demographics and poll numbers. Seriously. If I told you "an earthquake" has good odds of winning the election, would you vote for it?

Platform: 9.2 on the Richter scale, total destruction of *city redacted*

Earthquake is polling higher than any other candidate. By supporting Earthquake, you will look like a savvy political follower.
#15301339
Would a president who orders one of the country’s most secretive and lethal military units to assassinate his political opponents be protected from criminal prosecution?

That’s the question at the heart of an alarming exchange during today’s make-or-break hearing to decide whether Donald Trump should be immune from criminal prosecution over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. It arrived as all three judges in today’s panel expressed skepticism over the claim by Trump’s legal team that the ex-president is entitled to total immunity for his coup attempt—an argument that, if successful, would effectively end the special counsel’s election interference case before it goes to trial. But the response from Trump’s lawyer only appears to have underscored the deeply authoritarian risk posed by Trump’s reelection campaign. Here’s the exchange:

“Could a president order SEAL Team Six to assassinate a political rival? That’s an official act, an order to SEAL Team Six?” Judge Florence Pan asked.


Trump lawyer John Sauer dithered, invoking the founding fathers and what they would intend in such a situation.

“I asked you a yes or no question,” Pan interrupted. “Could a president who ordered SEAL Team Six to assassinate a political rival who was not impeached, would he be subject to criminal prosecution?”

“My answer is qualified yes. There is a political process that would have to occur under the structure of our Constitution which would require impeachment and conviction by the Senate.”

Judge: "I asked you a yes or no question. Could a president who ordered S.E.A.L. Team 6 to assassinate a political rival (and is) not impeached, would he be subject to criminal prosecution?"

Trump attorney says "qualified yes — if he is impeached and convicted first." pic.twitter.com/OJvEbRDznj

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) January 9, 2024

It’s hard to overstate the terrifying absurdity of the argument. Then again, this is the man who used his executive power to pardon service members who had been accused of war crimes. Though today’s question was an extreme hypothetical—a device often used by judges to test the logic of a legal argument—the response by Trump’s team was entirely consistent with what the former president has been openly running on. Trump has long teased plans to lock up his political enemies. He did it again just yesterday, floating the idea of having Joe Biden indicted if he returns to the White House.

As for wild authoritarian plans to use the military to kill his opponents, perhaps that would fit into his one-day dictatorship. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/01/trump-immunity-seal-team-6/


:eek:
#15301407
One thing that does not seem to be realised by many people is that although the Liberal media is highly distrusted by Republican primary voters, the Liberal media still has enormous power in setting the narratives around the candidates in the pre primary. From the time that the results of the mid terms came in in 2022, the Liberal media has had a relentless focus on portraying De Santis as an incompetent, unelectable loser.

Lets step back and remember. The Birther scandal or rumour was actually started by the Clinton campaign back in the 2008 primary. It was of course the Birther campaign that really brought Trump to national political prominence, as opposed to just being a reality TV celebrity. It was the Clintons that persuaded Trump to enter the 2015/16 Republican primary. Note in the pre primary of 2015 the Liberal media did its best to use its power it to set narratives to help Trump and to bring down Bush and later Rubio.

And then in 2016 there was this moment of horror, when Liberals suddenly started to think the unthinkable. Perhaps Trump could win. Everything must be done to stop Trump. And somehow in the aftermath of the 2022 mid terms we had come full circle. Liberals were again convinced that Trump was a guaranteed loser. That Trump was Democrat gold. That a Trump nomination in 2024 would guarantee an a cross the board victory for Democrats in November 2024.

And then in late 2023, we had another moment of horror, perhaps Trump could regain the Presidency in 2024.
#15301413
Rich wrote:
One thing that does not seem to be realised by many people is that although the Liberal media is highly distrusted by Republican primary voters, the Liberal media still has enormous power in setting the narratives around the candidates in the pre primary. From the time that the results of the mid terms came in in 2022, the Liberal media has had a relentless focus on portraying De Santis as an incompetent, unelectable loser.

Lets step back and remember. The Birther scandal or rumour was actually started by the Clinton campaign back in the 2008 primary. It was of course the Birther campaign that really brought Trump to national political prominence, as opposed to just being a reality TV celebrity. It was the Clintons that persuaded Trump to enter the 2015/16 Republican primary. Note in the pre primary of 2015 the Liberal media did its best to use its power it to set narratives to help Trump and to bring down Bush and later Rubio.

And then in 2016 there was this moment of horror, when Liberals suddenly started to think the unthinkable. Perhaps Trump could win. Everything must be done to stop Trump. And somehow in the aftermath of the 2022 mid terms we had come full circle. Liberals were again convinced that Trump was a guaranteed loser. That Trump was Democrat gold. That a Trump nomination in 2024 would guarantee an a cross the board victory for Democrats in November 2024.

And then in late 2023, we had another moment of horror, perhaps Trump could regain the Presidency in 2024.



You are babbling.

The Birther thing came out of the extremist Right wing fever swamps. The kooks absolutely loved it. It was a 2fer for them. They got to lie blatantly and outrageously, which they love. And they got to put their racism on display, which they also love.

I got very, very tired of the stupid.

"During Barack Obama's campaign for president in 2008, throughout his presidency and afterwards, there was extensive news coverage of Obama's religious preference, birthplace, and of the individuals questioning his religious belief and citizenship – efforts eventually known as the "birther movement",[1] by which name it is widely referred to across media.[2][3][4][5][6][7] The movement falsely asserted Obama was ineligible to be President of the United States because he was not a natural-born citizen of the United States as required by Article Two of the Constitution. Studies have found these birther conspiracy theories to be most firmly held by Republicans strong in both political knowledge and racial resentment.[8][9]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Ob ... y_theories
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