Tainari88 wrote:@Verv wrote:
I knew nationalism was crazy if taken to extremes. Nationalism is good for countries that have been abused and invaded, hated on and exploited by colonial powers who were throwing their weight around and wanting to take it all and disrespecting the people who were born in other nationalities and living in nations subject to power-abusive relationships.
But thinking your nation is the only one with something to offer and thinking other nations with less land, or people, or with unknown to you histories, and you think they are just nothing because only your nation and race, culture, language and point of view is worth something in human society is FALSE. A big LIE.
I had an issue with you in the past because I did see you as ethnocentric, nationalistic and narrow. Intolerant, and jumping to conclusions all day.
Never liked you because of that. I never liked white men from the USA that were super patriots, nationalistic, prejudiced, from conservative and right wing thoughts and full of thoughts about USA, USA and USA all day long.
For me? Ignorant men. Really.
I do not think about you in that negative way anymore. I used to. But not anymore. You changed. Maybe being a father, a husband, having responsibilities. Living in a culture that is not Anglo and American rah rah rah superpower shit all day has changed you for the better.
But it has changed you for the better.
I like you a lot now. It finally revealed who you probably always were deep down inside. A man of some depth.
And I always liked them. Men of depth. Even if they were not from my political column. If they are tolerant, respectful and analytical? I will like them.
This was a very awesome post to read - I did not respond right away due to lack of time, but I have really thought about it, and consider it a sort of actualization of my growth and the person I can become that I got such a nice compliment from an influential and respected poster.
I also get what you are saying - people who are poor and are suffering from inept leadership, which are all unfortunate byproducts of colonial governments and the messy decolonization process, they have some major issues with how they perceive themselves... I have heard Vietnamese people and African-Americans talk about these issues, and when I let myself listen, it has been very powerful. Specifically, hearing a friend tell me about how he felt learning that the "English" his grandpa spoke - the
only English he spoke, the only language he spoke as
wrong made him feel like he was from a backward people, and so when he spoke ebonics proudly and advocated its use, it was actually about
restoring dignity. Because
regional accents are valid. Why is a British accent with its own eccentricities posh and dignified, but his own is uneducated and ignorant? Only because of the pre-existing socieoconomic realities that they have faced
because they were slaves and then second-class citizens.... And so I also get that these things exist for Ukrainians who had their own regional accent that was other'd and not regarded as its own legitimate language, and how they also need to esteem themselves and their heritage, and not view it as some backwards, provencial place... But my advice, to everyone, is to not demean the Russians, or anyone at all, because there are very complicated issues facing all of these people...
And nationalism's lesson is that all peoples and groups have an inherent dignity just by existing... And it is right to exercise that to esteem your colleagues and your shared history. The nationalism can create a sense of "Do not tread on us," but it must at other points be a bridge...
Like how many African-Americans today see powerful parallels between themselves and Palestinians - and how much of the Latino world sees this, too!
... I have some ancestors who owned slaves - at one point, one of them owned a plantation so large that its territory was in two different states and completely unbroken. I read the will in which he identified specific slaves as going to specific people, and how some of them were given full names, but others were given names like "Old Joe," and... I had to stop and think about that... What would it be like for your ancestor to not be even acknowledged by a proper name in a legal document that transferred him to another person.
I then saw that some of his sons actually manumitted all their slaves and washed their hands of it because they felt morally repulsed by it... Slavery was not some distant thing that happened to someone else and was part of the 'natural course of history!' that you can write off... Even the people who were there were disgusted.
So, of course, the most natural thing for black Americans, and Latinos who are also of the descent of Native Americans and Africans who were subjected to their own systems of exploitation, are entitled not only to their pride, but to envisioning a better world not based off of the continuation of systems that treated their own ancestors as subhumans...
And we will always disagree on the details and I may continue to favor some very conservative things - but now I believe in things based solely on the word of God, which is for men and women of all races and can never be used to grant preferential treatment to any class, and my own understanding and logic and how I think to best serve the interests of people...
And so I have become interested in the idea of LA RAZA COSMICA because I heard someone analyze it from a Christian perspective: the Latinos are made up of all races, and all peoples, and as people marry into these communities, they can also become part of the cosmic race...
And this is the final, ultimate form of man - all peoples everywehre will continue to be mixed, and even those who are not Latino but living in Europe or Asia will continue this grand mixture of groups. The Latinos can be thought in a sense as 'the first of the last race' - the first people to transcend racial category by being composed of all races, with some members completely black or white or native, and many a mix, but whose racial identity is still unified by post-racialness... Which is the ultimate trajectory of all peoples, and the will of God...
But we can see that it was this way in the beginning: It is not that "all races are now grafted onto a single tree," we were always a single tree, a single race, but we just couldn't see it for so long... and it was a group of Latinos who restored our vision for us.