[litwin]

Matityahu Samborskyi, son of the Chief Rabbi of Ukraine Moshe Azman, heroically died defending his Ukraine. Moscow thugs tell us now how Ukraine is "nazi"



​Eternal glory to hero and deepest condolences to his loved ones. We must never forget Matityahu sacrificed his life defending democracy and freedom , Heroyam Slava!

https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/18 ... 8076656854

[annatar1914]

Remind everyone that he was in the fascist Azov Battalion, fighting as a Bandera.

[litwin]

Remind everyone that he was in the fascist Azov Battalion, fighting as a Bandera.

rt.ru crap

the reality :
introduction : Mehdi Hasan Introduces You To Putin’s Favorite Fascist Philosopher Ivan Ilyin

any comment on this ?

[annatar1914]

rt.ru crap

the reality :
introduction : Mehdi Hasan Introduces You To Putin’s Favorite Fascist Philosopher Ivan Ilyin

any comment on this ?

Yes. There is a God. And He sees and judges, Banderite.

[Deutschmania]

Remind everyone that he was in the fascist Azov Battalion, fighting as a Bandera.

@annatar1914 , while I do not exactly altogether believe that Ukraine is in the right , as far as being a completely innocent victim in this war , what you have asserted about the slain Ukrainian Jewish soldier is simply not true . For one thing , he was conscripted , but also he was not part of the notorious Azov Battalion . Though , with that being said , even the Third Reich still forced men of some Jewish descent to fight in the Wehrmact , during World War 2 . And I have no doubt that , if I had been alive and of age , in Germany , at that time period , even though I as a pacificist would have been a conscientious objector , and am of some distant Jewish descent myself , I still would have been declared to have been "German blooded" , according to the Nuremberg laws , and therefore mandated to give military service , or else be sent to a concentration camp , and categorized as being either a political prisoner with a red triangle badge , or an asocial with a black one . This had been the stark choice presented to those of Jewish descent , either serve a regime that views you and or parts of your family with derision , or at least suspicion , or be deemed an enemy alien . And so , in spite of the long history of anti-Semitism in Ukraine , there will be a number of Jews in the Ukrainian military , and though I haven't been able to find any statistics , I would imagine that there would be Jews in the Russian military as well . I do know that there have been and continue to be politicians of at least some degree of Jewish descent within the various parties that are represented within the government , such as for just some examples , Pavel Grudinin , Alla Gerber , Mikhail Fradkov , Lev Schlosberg , Boris Spiegel , and Alexander Vinnikov .

Dozens of Jewish soldiers and civilians, together with many non-Jewish Ukrainians, gathered Thursday at Kyiv’s Brodsky Central Synagogue to bid farewell to the son of a prominent rabbi who died on the front weeks after being drafted into the Ukrainian — Dozens of Jewish soldiers and civilians, together with many non-Jewish Ukrainians, gathered Thursday at Kyiv’s Brodsky Central Synagogue to bid farewell to the son of a prominent rabbi who died on the front weeks after being drafted into the Ukrainian army.

Anton Samborskyi, 32, was the adopted son of Moshe Azman, one of two men who claim title as chief rabbi of Ukraine.

Speaking at the synagogue service — which was also attended by Israel’s ambassador to Kyiv, Michael Brodsky — Azman drew attention to the tragic irony of how Russia’s military invasion of Ukraine, which the Kremlin justifies falsely as an operation to free Ukraine from a Nazi junta, is killing many members of its national minorities, including Jews and Russians.

The Federation of Jewish Communities of Ukraine said in a statement that it has assisted in the burial of 47 Jewish soldiers fallen in combat since the start of the war. Speaking to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, the federation’s chair, Rabbi Mayer Stambler, estimated the number of Ukrainian Jewish soldiers killed in action to be in the hundreds.


Stambler said the federation is currently providing holiday meals and other support to 1,200 Jewish soldiers on the front and across Ukraine who have requested it.

In his comments at the funeral, Azman referred to Samborskyi as Moty, the short form of Matisyahu, the Hebrew name he and his wife gave the boy when he joined the family. According to the Federation of Jewish Communities, Samborskyi had been living in a Jewish orphanage up until then. Matisyahu was a Jewish freedom-fighter during the Maccabean revolt.


Ukrainian soldiers were among those attending the funeral of Anton Samborskyi, who died while fighting against Russia. (Marcel Gascon Barbera)

“I have received tens of thousands of words of sympathy and support,” Azman said in a social media post on Friday announcing a charity campaign in Samborskyi’s honor. “I read each and every one of them. Your warm words, coming from the heart, fill me with confidence in our victory over evil.

Samborskyi was drafted as part of the country’s mandatory conscription law, which allows authorities to forcibly recruit adult males between 25 and 60.

In a statement on social media in August, Azman revealed that his adoptive son was drafted into the army a week after the birth of his daughter in May. “After completing a quick course,” the rabbi added, he was “sent right away to the front.”

Samborskyi died when a missile fell near him in the Pokrovsk axis of the Donetsk region in Eastern Ukraine, where Russia concentrates its main efforts to seize Ukrainian territory.

In interviews, Ukrainian soldiers have decried the lack of training and physical readiness of many of the new recruits sent to the front in a rush to compensate for Russia’s overwhelming advantage in personnel. They requested anonymity because they were not supposed to speak to the press

Like many of their fellow citizens of all faiths and origins, male members of the Ukrainian Jewish community told JTA that they try to avoid certain areas of their cities out of fear of bumping into the military recruitment patrols. In both Dnipro and at a Jewish camp in western Ukraine this summer, Jewish leaders said men were participating less often in communal life because of the risk of conscription.

Specialized Telegram channels run by anonymous Ukrainians inform in real time about the presence of the patrols in specific areas of the cities, in order to help those vulnerable to mobilization avoid conscription...According to local reports, among those present was a representative of a foundation to support the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian army regiment with a history of displaying Nazi symbols. The battalion has sought to rebrand amid Russian efforts to paint its enemy as heirs to the Nazis. Samborskyi was not in the brigade, the representative said. https://www.jta.org/2024/09/13/global/kyiv-funeral-for-rabbis-son-killed-in-battle-showcases-jewish-contributions-to-ukraine-war-effort

[Deutschmania]

rt.ru crap

the reality :
introduction : Mehdi Hasan Introduces You To Putin’s Favorite Fascist Philosopher Ivan Ilyin

any comment on this ?

I have a few comments on this . First of all , all governments employ official state propaganda , and during war suppress enemy propaganda . This is unique to neither the German National Socialists , or Putin's United Russia ruled government in Russia . Secondly , your framing of Ivan Ilyan is inaccurate. He was not an all out unequivocal fascist ideologue . From the linked Wikipedia article ...

Ivan Alexandrovich Ilyin (Russian: Иван Александрович Ильин, romanized: Ivan Aleksandrovich Il'in; 9 April [O.S. 28 March] 1883 – 21 December 1954) was a Russian jurist, religious and political philosopher, publicist, orator, and conservative monarchist. While he saw Russia's 1917 February Revolution as a "temporary disorder", the October Revolution, in his view, marked a "national catastrophe". This conviction led him to oppose the Bolshevik regime.[1] He became a white émigré journalist, aligning himself with Slavophile beliefs and emerging as a key ideologue of the Russian All-Military Union. This organization firmly believed that force stood as the sole means through which the Soviet regime could be toppled. As an anti-communist,[3] Ilyin found himself initially sympathetic to Adolf Hitler but his critique of totalitarianism was not embraced by the Nazi regime. In 1934, his refusal to comply with Nazi directives to spread propaganda led to his dismissal from the Russian Academic Institute, stripping him of employment opportunities.[4] Financial support from Sergei Rachmaninoff in 1938 allowed Ilyin to remain in Switzerland albeit barred from work or political engagement.[5] This phase of restriction led him to delve deeper into studies encompassing aesthetics, ethics, and psychology.[6]

Despite battling chronic illness, Ilyin wrote over 40 books and numerous articles in Russian and German. His works predominantly revolved around religion and Russia, although he diverged from Vladimir Solovyov's ideologies, advocating a global theocracy with whom the Russian religious and philosophical Renaissance of the early 20th century is usually associated.[1] Instead, Ilyin championed a patriarchal model of governance for Russia, rooted on Orthodoxy and faith in the autocratic tsar, distinguishing between autocracy and tyranny.[7][8][9] His writings echoed calls for heroism and moral aristocracy,[10] while cementing his role as a proponent of Western Russophobia.11]

Remaining true to Right Hegelianism throughout his life, Ilyin explored themes of statehood, law, and power in world history.[12] He opposed federalism and neutrality,[13] and disdained Western analytic philosophy. As an ultranationalist, Ilyin was a critic of Western-style democracy, advocating instead for a government aligned with Russia's autocratic heritage.[14][15]

Ilyin's views on Russia's social structure and world history influenced some post-Soviet intellectuals and politicians, including Soviet dissident Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and Russian President Vladimir Putin.[16][17][18][19] ... He wrote in "On Fascism":

"The greatest mistake of fascism was the revival of idolatrous Caesarism. "Caesarism" is the exact opposite of monarchism. Franco and Salazar have understood this and are trying to avoid these mistakes. They don't call their regime "fascist". Let's hope that Russian patriots will think through the mistakes of fascism and national socialism to the end and not repeat them."[130][131]

A number of Ilyin's works[132][130] (including those written after the Italian and German defeats in 1945) advocated fascism.[133] "Italian fascism expressed in its own, Roman way the things that Russia had for centuries been standing on," he wrote in 1948. A year later Roman Gul accused Ilyin of antisemitism: "I still have among the clippings your pro-Hitler article where you recommend the Russians not to look at Hitlerism "through the eyes of Jews" and sing the praises of this movement!"[134][135] Ilyin would describe Nazis as those who had "walked the path of Anti-Christ."[15]

According to Timothy D. Snyder, Ilyin's ideas are a hodgepodge of German idealism, psychoanalysis, Italian fascism, and Christianity.[136] Some of his work has a rambling and commonsensical character, and it is easy to find tensions and contradictions.[137] Attempts to identify him as 'Putin's philosopher' by citing selective quotations from Ilyin are usually misleading.[138][139]

... in a somewhat sensationalist op-ed in the New York Times, Timothy Snyder attempts to discover the ideological foundations of the current Russian regime. In doing so, he exaggerates the influence on Putin of books by Ivan Ilyin, the ideologist of the Whites, the counterrevolutionary émigrés of the 1920s and '30s.[140]

Paul Valliere, professor of Religion, at Butler University, wrote "Like Hegel, Ilyin was a statist and a monarchist, but to deny that liberal values occupied a central place in his political thought is a mistake. For the same reason, it is a mistake to call Ilyin a "fascist philosopher". Ilyin's thought never manifested such signal features of fascism as populism, totalitarianism, racism, anti-Semitism, thuggery, or the politics of hysteria. One may criticize Ilyin severely for not recognizing the catastrophic vices of fascism from the start."[10] After the attack on Milyukov and Nabokov in 1922 he warned Struve against the extreme Markov.

Paul Robinson (University of Ottawa Faculty of Social Sciences), the author of the book "Russian Conservatism", points out if you want to find a fascist Ilyin, you can. But if you want to find a liberal one, you can do that too.[141] Ilyin considered that fascism had some positive characteristics, as well as some negative ones, but to be a Western European ideology and as such inappropriate for Russia.

Nevertheless, there are some problems with the approach used in the research on Il'in in "The Road to Unfreedom". Snyder uses quotes from the philosopher's work to show how Il'in's ideas fit into, or more accurately, provide a frame for Putin's regime. To accomplish this, he mixes Il'in's earliest works with very late ones. This is a very problematic choice, for Il'in, as Snyder has himself stated, drastically shifted his political opiniorens during his life. At the same time, serving the task of his book, Snyder in most cases gives no historical context to the quotes he provides and gives no explanation of where Il'in stands compared to other Russian-emigre thinkers of his time. This approach, I believe, causes misinterpretation in the worst case, or incomplete understanding of the legacy of Ivan Il'in in the best case.[

Thirdly , Putin has made overtures towards a negotiated peace . The problem is that it isn't on terms that Zelensky , and his government in Kiev , would ever find to be acceptable , and so this remains a non-starter . https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/russia-always-open-to-ukraine-peace-talks-putin-tells-china/ar-AA1qvKfN

[Yaqum]

First of all, all governments employ official state propaganda, and during war suppress enemy propaganda. This is unique to neither the German National Socialists, or Putin's United Russia ruled government in Russia.

Perhaps, but it just so happens that Russia’s official state propaganda is fascist in nature, and they employ it regardless of the war in peacetime as well. Russia isn’t even officially at war and faces no real existential threat. This propaganda only serves to prop up Putin’s authoritarian rule.

Secondly , your framing of Ivan Ilyan is inaccurate. He was not an all out unequivocal fascist ideologue.

It can most certainly be deduced from the article you posted that a lot of his ideas were fascist. At the very best, his ideology is a schizophrenic mess of incongruent ideas; not uncommon amongst modern Russian thinkers who try in vain to harmonize Russia’s monarchist and socialist past.

Thirdly, Putin has made overtures towards a negotiated peace. The problem is that it isn't on terms that Zelensky, and his government in Kiev, would ever find to be acceptable, and so this remains a non-starter.

The last supposed overture Putin made for peace demanded the complete surrender of all the remaining Donbass cities, as well as the two regional capital cities of Zaporizhia and Kherson, which effectively means abandoning over one million Ukrainians to the will of a fascist ethnocidal dictator. This would also mean surrendering the right bank of the Kherson region to Russia, which would open the way to Nikolaev and Odessa.

No country in the world would acquiesce to such a peace treaty.

[annatar1914]

@annatar1914 , while I do not exactly altogether believe that Ukraine is in the right , as far as being a completely innocent victim in this war , what you have asserted about the slain Ukrainian Jewish soldier is simply not true . For one thing , he was conscripted , but also he was not part of the notorious Azov Battalion . Though , with that being said , even the Third Reich still forced men of some Jewish descent to fight in the Wehrmact , during World War 2 . And I have no doubt that , if I had been alive and of age , in Germany , at that time period , even though I as a pacificist would have been a conscientious objector , and am of some distant Jewish descent myself , I still would have been declared to have been "German blooded" , according to the Nuremberg laws , and therefore mandated to give military service , or else be sent to a concentration camp , and categorized as being either a political prisoner with a red triangle badge , or an asocial with a black one . This had been the stark choice presented to those of Jewish descent , either serve a regime that views you and or parts of your family with derision , or at least suspicion , or be deemed an enemy alien . And so , in spite of the long history of anti-Semitism in Ukraine , there will be a number of Jews in the Ukrainian military , and though I haven't been able to find any statistics , I would imagine that there would be Jews in the Russian military as well . I do know that there have been and continue to be politicians of at least some degree of Jewish descent within the various parties that are represented within the government , such as for just some examples , Pavel Grudinin , Alla Gerber , Mikhail Fradkov , Lev Schlosberg , Boris Spiegel , and Alexander Vinnikov .

I'm of a part Jewish family myself.

https://lenta.ru/news/2024/09/12/syn-gl ... na-fronte/

I know what people killed Jews and others, and those who liberated the survivors:

They keep trying, as much as they dare. They get a foothold anywhere and with nuclear weapons....

[Deutschmania]

Perhaps, but it just so happens that Russia’s official state propaganda is fascist in nature, and they employ it regardless of the war in peacetime as well. Russia isn’t even officially at war and face no real existential threat. This propaganda only serves to prop up Putin’s authoritarian rule.


It can most certainly be deduced from the article you posted that a lot of his ideas were fascist. At the very best, his ideology is a schizophrenic mess of incongruent ideas; not uncommon amongst modern Russian thinkers who try in vain to harmonize Russia’s monarchist and socialist past.


The last supposed overture Putin made for peace demanded the complete surrender of all the remaining Donbass cities, as well as the two regional capital cities of Zaporizhia and Kherson, which effectively means abandoning over one million Ukrainians to the will of a fascist ethnocidal dictator. This would also mean surrendering the right bank of the Kherson region to Russia, which would open the way to Nikolaev and Odessa.

No country in the world would acquiesce to such a peace treaty.

I don't really use the term "fascist" to be simply a synonym for authoritarianism more generally . Even those who I would consider to be my mortal enemies , in terms of political alignment , I wouldn't necessarily label as being fascist . And there have been a select number of self described fascists on this forum even whom I have found myself to be in agreement with , to some considerable extent . And , considering that Russia does not have a just one party of power , without even a controlled opposition party , the largest loyal opposition party to United Russia , being the Communist Party of the Russian Federation , I would assert that Russia is not fascist. If Putin were really a fascist , then why would he share power with the likes of Communists , however possibly rigged the election results might be said to be ? Unlike in Ukraine , people are permitted to be Communists , and even stand for public office as such , in Russia . So as imperfect as Putin's Russia might be , at least it's not outright fascist . And lastly , as to what country would ever accept ceding land for peace , the answer would be Mexico . And not only did Mexico relinquish territory , it surrendered more than half of its size to the United States . And I would contend that , comparable to Texas , in relation to Mexico, if the people of the Donbass region wish to be independent of Ukraine , then in the interest of popular sovereignty , they should be allowed to do so , and even join together with Russia . To say otherwise would be to invalidate the United States itself , as the Mexicans didn't cross the southern border so much as the border wound up crossing them . The below referenced articles , although I don't necessarily entirely agree with all of the points made in each of them , illustrate the analogy between the two historical incidents.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/2014/03/23/was-polk-the-putin-of-1848/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/04/like-19th-century-us-putin-seized-separatist-claims-expand-his-empire/

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/cowboys-kalashnikovs-comparing-the-mexican-american-war-the-11345

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2022/05/24/ukraine-and-questions-of-just-war/

[Deutschmania]

I'm of a part Jewish family myself.

https://lenta.ru/news/2024/09/12/syn-gl ... na-fronte/

I know what people killed Jews and others, and those who liberated the survivors:

They keep trying, as much as they dare. They get a foothold anywhere and with nuclear weapons....

The Jewish Telegraphic Agency article , in the parts I didn't excerpt in the quoted section , also acknowledged what was reported in the Russian language article that you linked to , which I then had to run through Google Translate , in order to comprehend it. Only , as you might expect , the JTA , being American based , and perhaps somewhat biased in that regard , didn't include the quote from the Russian Chief Rabbi , Berel Lazar .

[Yaqum]

I don't really use the term "fascist" to be simply a synonym for authoritarianism more generally.

Neither do I. There are a myriad of reasons why Russia can be labeled a fascist state. It's a right wing, conservative, irredentist, authoritarian, racist, aggressive state with a victim complex and a fetish for symbolism and spiritual mumbo-jumbo.

Even those who I would consider to be my mortal enemies, in terms of political alignment, I wouldn't necessarily label as being fascist. And there have been a select number of self described fascists on this forum even whom I have found myself to be in agreement with, to some considerable extent.

I know that the word fascist isn't a slur. I'm using it to describe Russia's policies objectively. Thank you for making clear that you sympathise with some fascists. It makes me understand where you're coming from better.

And, considering that Russia does not have a just one party of power , without even a controlled opposition party , the largest loyal opposition party to United Russia, being the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, I would assert that Russia is not fascist. If Putin were really a fascist, then why would he share power with the likes of Communists, however possibly rigged the election results might be said to be?

I think the term loyal opposition is a contradiction in terms. I also think there's more to being a communist than just waving a red flag. They're an embarrassingly obsequious bunch to Putin and have no real power. In the following report you have a communist party member extolling Putin as a great personality akin to Peter the Great and Napoleon. This type of rhetoric is antithetical to Marxism-Leninism.

Putin opponents condemn regional elections in Russia a farce

Unlike in Ukraine , people are permitted to be Communists , and even stand for public office as such, in Russia. So as imperfect as Putin's Russia might be , at least it's not outright fascist.

It was also legal to be a communist in Ukraine before Russia's invasion. Ukraine claims that they've banned them not because they're communist but because they're in league with an invading force. Ukraine's communist party leader was one of the first to jump ship and escape to Russia after the invasion.

Nevertheless I will partly agree with you here that Ukraine has severely clamped down on left-wing parties since the invasion; understandable when taking their history into account, and authoritarian measures are to be expected under martial law when a country faces an imminent existential threat. However, I certainly hope they clean up their act after the war and adopt more democratic policies in line with western values in order to become part of the European Union.

In conclusion I fully understand you. It's at least possible to cosplay communist in Russia, whereas that's impossible in Ukraine.

And lastly , as to what country would ever accept ceding land for peace , the answer would be Mexico . And not only did Mexico relinquish territory , it surrendered more than half of its size to the United States.

Arbitrarily cherry picking examples from the far past and applying it to today's standards to excuse breaches of international law doesn't hold water. You can't defend slavery today by exclaiming that it was condoned yesterday. This type of reasoning is so infantile that it barely merits a response.

And I would contend that , comparable to Texas , in relation to Mexico, if the people of the Donbass region wish to be independent of Ukraine , then in the interest of popular sovereignty , they should be allowed to do so , and even join together with Russia.

The people of the Donbass were never given a choice, just like the Austrians were never given a choice during the Anschluss. Russia is levelling city after city in the Donbass as we speak.

To say otherwise would be to invalidate the United States itself , as the Mexicans didn't cross the southern border so much as the border wound up crossing them.

No, it wouldn't. You can't right every wrong of the past neither is it necessary in order to right the wrongs of today. In order to arrest someone for murder, we don't need to raise the dead and incarcerate every person who had gotten away with it. Using history to satisfy one's sensibilities incompatible with the current state of affairs is a cop out.

[litwin]

I have a few comments on this . First of all , all governments employ official state propaganda , and during war suppress enemy propaganda . This is unique to neither the German National Socialists , or Putin's United Russia ruled government in Russia . Secondly , your framing of Ivan Ilyan is inaccurate. He was not an all out unequivocal fascist ideologue . From the linked Wikipedia article ...

Thirdly , Putin has made overtures towards a negotiated peace . The problem is that it isn't on terms that Zelensky , and his government in Kiev , would ever find to be acceptable , and so this remains a non-starter . https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/russia-always-open-to-ukraine-peace-talks-putin-tells-china/ar-AA1qvKfN

Ivan Ilyin's ideology is the most frightening thing I've heard in years. It feels like 1984 was a parody of his vision, specifically. If a villain in a movie said the shit Ivan Ilyin said, I'd have dismissed it as cartoonishly, absurdly, over the top evil . AND Lev Gumilev claiming that the Mongol invasion of Muscovy was secretly masterminded by Jews is so unhinged and random that even Hitler would probably consider that theory to be nuts if he came across it


The Ideology of Putin's Moscow empire

[litwin]

I'm of a part Jewish family myself.

https://lenta.ru/news/2024/09/12/syn-gl ... na-fronte/

I know what people killed Jews and others, and those who liberated the survivors:

They keep trying, as much as they dare. They get a foothold anywhere and with nuclear weapons....

come and see made in 1984 , which means its commie propaganda . Everyone knows what NKVD bandits (PARISIANS) DID to Belarusians .


Belarusian old women speaks about NKVD bandits (PARISIANS) :

just read the comments

[Deutschmania]

Arbitrarily cherry picking examples from the far past and applying it to today's standards to excuse breaches of international law doesn't hold water. You can't defend slavery today by exclaiming that it was condoned yesterday. This type of reasoning is so infantile that it barely merits a response.



The people of the Donbass were never given a choice, just like the Austrians were never given a choice during the Anschluss. Russia is levelling city after city in the Donbass as we speak.


No, it wouldn't. You can't right every wrong of the past neither is it necessary in order to right the wrongs of today. In order to arrest someone for murder, we don't need to raise the dead and incarcerate every person who had gotten away with it. Using history to satisfy one's sensibilities incompatible with the current state of affairs is a cop out.

Slavery in the United States no longer exists though . So it would have legitimate moral standing to condemn slavery in other countries . But the territory that it seized from Mexico is still possessed by the United States . So therefore , as the Bible states , the United States is being hypocritical in denouncing Russian expansion as being illegal , by whatever arbitrary standard of international law it has conveniently come up with , while itself is still holding on to conquered land .

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:3-5&version=NIV

As for the referendum , while both Ukraine as well as other countries contest the legitimacy of it , as it was conducted after Russian military personnel had already entered the region , similar to in Austria by the way , there still might be popular support for independence from the government in Kiev . And Pres. Zelensky , as I have just now learned , has not ruled out holding his own referendum there . So we'll just have to see how this all may play out , as to the future status of the region in question .

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/20/russia-unfolds-annexation-plan-for-ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-does-not-exclude-holding-referendum-crimea-donbass-2021-12-10/

[Yaqum]

But the territory that it seized from Mexico is still possessed by the United States . So therefore , as the Bible states , the United States is being hypocritical in denouncing Russian expansion as being illegal.

America and Mexico are irrelevant to this discussion.

…by whatever arbitrary standard of international law it has conveniently come up with ,while itself is still holding on to conquered land.

America did not invent international law, neither is international law arbitrary.

[Yaqum]

Ivan Ilyin's ideology is the most frightening thing I've heard in years.

The Ideology of Putin's Moscow empire

I’m only halfway through, but this video is one of the best relating to the Ukraine-Russia war I have ever seen. Absolutely superb work. Thank you for posting.

[annatar1914]

come and see made in 1984 , which means its commie propaganda . Everyone knows what NKVD bandits (PARISIANS) DID to Belarusians .


Belarusian old women speaks about NKVD bandits (PARISIANS) :

just read the comments

No, what Banderite serfs and their Nemetsky masters did to Poles, Byelorussians, Jews, Roma, and other " Ukrainians".

But you know that already.

[Deutschmania]

America and Mexico are irrelevant to this discussion.


America did not invent international law, neither is international law arbitrary.

History is used to set legal precedent . For example , as I mentioned in a post in the thread as to whether Israel is committing genocide in Gaza , the reason why the German pilots who carried out the London Blitz were not prosecuted for committing war crimes was due in large part to such allied bombardments as that of Dresden bombing . https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4751819 Imperial powers , such as the United States , exercise geopolitical cultural hegemony in determining such things as so called international law , pursuant to the new world order . What other objective basis would international law have that all nations should be expected to abide by ? Even as the body of law in bourgeois liberal countries serves the interests of the ruling class , so does international law , in relation to imperialism , merely act to serve the interests of the plutocracy , against those of the proletarian nations .

[Yaqum]

If the people of the Donbass region wish to be independent of Ukraine , then in the interest of popular sovereignty , they should be allowed to do so , and even join together with Russia.

It's not only the Donbass that Putin is demanding, it's all of Kherson and Zaporizhia as well. Putin tries to take whatever he can get, regardless of the population's wishes, therefore discussing the demands of the Donbass people is a moot point. In Russia, you have to love Putin whether you like it or not.

History is used to set legal precedent . For example , as I mentioned in a post in the thread as to whether Israel is committing genocide in Gaza , the reason why the German pilots who carried out the were not prosecuted for committing war crimes was due in large part to such allied bombardments as that of Dresden bombing.

You seem incapable of sticking to the topic at hand.

Imperial powers , such as the United States , exercise geopolitical cultural hegemony in determining such things as so called international law.

No, that’s just what you want to believe. The Soviet Union participated in formulating international law during Nuremberg. America has broken international law many times and they’re not even a party to the Rome Statute, because international law would often not work to their cynical benefit, neither to Russia’s for that matter, neither to China’s.

What other objective basis would international law have that all nations should be expected to abide by ?

International law, as all law, exists to keep the world civilised, or at least try to, imperfect as it may be. Would you prefer the alternative, as in the law of the jungle?

Even as the body of law in bourgeois liberal countries serves the interests of the ruling class , so does international law , in relation to imperialism , merely act to serve the interests of the plutocracy , against those of the proletarian nations.

International law is beneficial to poorer nations, because they're quite often the victims. International law's weak spot is that it’s incapable of being always enforced because imperialist powers often break it to their benefit.

Putting aside all of this irrelevant rigmarole, let’s get to the final point.


My point is that invading other countries, conquering their land and committing all the mass murder and destruction that comes with it is unacceptable, uncivilised, barbaric, and criminal. I believe that you don't even need to insert international law into this equation to recognise the veracity of my position. They're also mostly ineffective, especially in the last century, as they seem to rarely accomplish their original intention.

You’re saying that mass murder and the theft of land is acceptable because of history. Correct?

[litwin]

I’m only halfway through, but this video is one of the best relating to the Ukraine-Russia war I have ever seen. Absolutely superb work. Thank you for posting.

agree, I´d recommend to everyone this video as well The Origins of Moscow Colonialism: From Pushkin to Putin by Prof. Dr. Ewa Thompson


Dr. Ewa Thompson, a professor of Slavistic at Rice University and the author of the book ‘Imperial knowledge: Muscovite literature and colonialism.

'Decolonization of Moscow empire is the only way to end its imperialism', And I don’t mean Putin´s imperialism, but Moscow imperialism in general , from Solzhenitsyn and Brodsky to Navalny and Dugin.