[Ixa]

"This worldwide conspiracy amongst the Jews for the overthrow of civilisation has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century"

The Guardian (London) Thursday, November 28, 2002,


Winston Churchill, exterminatio-nist, racist and anti-Semite was yet voted the "greatest Briton".

The Churchill you didn't know

Thousands voted him the greatest Briton - but did they know about his views on Gandhi, gassing and Jews...

[Churchill in favour of gassing 'lower grade' of races]:
"I do not understand the squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisonous gas against uncivilised tribes." -- Writing as president of the Air Council, 1919

[Churchill the racist]:
"It is alarming and nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a campaign of civil disobedience, to parlay on equal terms with the representative of the Emperor-King." -- Commenting on Gandhi's meeting with the Viceroy of India, 1931

[Churchill the racist]:
"(India is) a godless land of snobs and bores." -- In a letter to his mother, 1896

[Churchill in favour of exterminating lower grade of races]:
"I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place." -- Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937

[Churchills views on communist Russia, more extreme than Hitler's]:
"(We must rally against) a poisoned Russia, an infected Russia of armed hordes not only smiting with bayonet and cannon, but accompanied and preceded by swarms of typhus-bearing vermin." -- Quoted in the Boston Review, April/May 2001

[Churchill on the Irish spectre, horrid and inexorcisable]:
"The choice was clearly open: crush them with vain and unstinted force, or try to give them what they want. These were the only alternatives and most people were unprepared for either. Here indeed was the Irish spectre - horrid and inexorcisable." -- Writing in The World Crisis and the Aftermath, 1923-31

[Churchill wanted to sterilize the mental ill]:
"The unnatural and increasingly rapid growth of the feeble-minded and insane classes, coupled as it is with a steady restriction among all the thrifty, energetic and superior stocks, constitutes a national and race danger which it is impossible to exaggerate... I feel that the source from which the stream of madness is fed should be cut off and sealed up before another year has passed." -- Churchill to Asquith, 1910

[Churchill in praise of Adolf Hitler]:
"One may dislike Hitler's system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as admirable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations." -- From his Great Contemporaries, 1937

[Churchill condemns the Polish exile government]:
"You are callous people who want to wreck Europe - you do not care about the future of Europe, you have only your own miserable interests in mind." -- Addressing the London Polish government at a British Embassy meeting, October 1944

[Churchill handing over whole nations to Stalin]:
"So far as Britain and Russia were concerned, how would it do for you to have 90% of Romania, for us to have 90% of the say in Greece, and go 50/50 about Yugoslavia?" -- Addressing Stalin in Moscow, October 1944

[Churchill the anti-Semite]:
"This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States)... this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire." -- Writing on 'Zionism versus Bolshevism' in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 1920

Research by Amy Iggulden

[Person]

If I were a Briton, I'd still vote for him.

[Commidget 42]

Firstly, no one is perfect, not even the almighty Churchill. Everyone says things they don't mean, or that they said out of naitivity. Secondly, several of these points, while seeming bloody and cruel, are correct. The atomic bomb, for example, though a horrible weapon, was used in just cause- it can be proved that not only were they needed but also that they stopped much bloodshed (as the invasion of Japan that was the alternative option would have caused). Also, Hitler, while an evil man, was, by all accounts, a brilliant speaker and hypnotist, you can't refute that. ...and thirdly, I'd still vote for Churchill if I were of Britain at the time.



~C42

[clownboy]

Commidget 42 has it correct. In addition, a few of those ideas, that we now find repugnant, were considered scientific and political "truths" in the early 1900s.

The eugenicists were quite the talk of the town for a few decades. As were the anti-Zionists. Some of the statements were based on what was considered verified "fact" in Churchill's day.

That's just a small part of the problem caused by rewriting history to reflect current mores.

[Maxim Litvinov]

I agree care has to be taken when using such quotes.

We have had several threads on PoFo for instance, as to whether Stalin was anti-Semitic. No evidence nearly as damning as this Churchill quote, but plenty of feeble speculation.

We have had threads of people who said Lenin was evil, because they know he wrote some ruthless things during the Civil War.

But when, in future, people quote these to me as the basis of an argument, I will just quote back:
"I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place." Churchill.

btw - I deny the fact that Hitler was a brilliant speaker and hypnotist. *That* to me is rewriting history. Hitler spoke a bit like Howard Dean. Truly. For some people this delivery was a bit captivating and motivating, for others it was just a rant.

[Person]

btw - I deny the fact that Hitler was a brilliant speaker and hypnotist. *That* to me is rewriting history. Hitler spoke a bit like Howard Dean. Truly. For some people this delivery was a bit captivating and motivating, for others it was just a rant.

I don't even speak or understand German, and seeing him talk is captivating. His voice, facial expressions, and movement are what makes the speeches.

But when, in future, people quote these to me as the basis of an argument, I will just quote back:
"I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place." Churchill.

Your quote has three places where text is skipped. What's the complete quote?

[TROI]

m'eh all I have to say is that while Churchill is the corporal manifestation of Satan Kim Jong il is the greatest man ever in Ixabert's book.

I still salute Churchill, he may not of had the purest beliefs but he was still a great war leader.

[Al Khabir]

He might have been disagreeable in many ways, but he was necessary. There is no denying that.

[Commidget 42]

To Maxim: No doubt everyone has their own opinion of Hitler, and I respect yours, just saying that, hey, he managed to unite Germany in their time of need, right? From all I've heard, he shows all the signs of being a great persuader and speaker.
To Person: How'd you get your hands on that footage? Some/most of it, including the famous Nurembourg Rally, is locked away for its great persuasive power and its director forever banned from making films...though she's dead now... But yes, again only from word of mouth, I have heard that his speeches were brilliant in flourish and style as well as word, making a powerful figurehead even for those without comprehension of the German language, self included.





~C42

[Dragon.Knight]

How'd you get your hands on that footage? Some/most of it, including the famous Nurembourg Rally, is locked away for its great persuasive power and its director forever banned from making films...though she's dead now...
~C42

He is a very strong and persuasive speaker....in our history class, our teacher showed us the movie that your talking about, the name has slipped my mind. It's a promotional video and even though you cannot understand what he is saying it is very powerful the way he speaks it

[Maxim Litvinov]

Leni Riefenstahl. Triumph of the Will.

Hitler yelled. Clearly captivated himself. What he said was far from eloquent. Many middle class Germans would just turn off the radio, rather than listen to this ranter with a probable Austrian accent go on and on about the bloody Fatherland.

Why was he popular? Because he was economically successful. Because he promised a resurrection of the great German empire. People were quite happy to put up with having him make bizarre speeches when the economy was alright.

But if you served in the SS and are interviewed post-war, what are you going to say? If after the war you are asked why you supported Hitler what are you going to say? Oh - he 'hypnotised' me. He was charming and beguiling. His words were wonderfully eloquent.

Listen to the content of his speeches. Read a bit of Mein Kampf. His speeches weren't that good at all.

Mass audiences and regimented lines of soldiers like the type Riefenstahl shows are impressive. But the man's words themselves. Well, again with the same analogy -- while for some of the people in Howard Dean's audience the "I have a scream" speech pumped them up, for most watching it seemed like what it was - a screamed rant.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Churchill was indeed a pillar of reaction with many disagreeable characteristics, but this titan is arguably the savior of occidental civilization. He is, without a doubt, the greatest Briton ever. He towers above other great Britons such as Lord Nelson or the Duke of Wellington.

[Collective]

Churchill wasn't only a complete reactionary in his beliefs, he was an absolute bastard in practice. He used the army to kill workers on strike and had to be removed from government because he wanted to machine gun participants during the general strike. He was as useless in war, remember that little incident at Gallipoli?

The man is no hero. He's just part of the myth created by the British establishment around WW2. The defiant leader, the brave few and all that fiction. Never mind today he'd be a war criminal, he's a convenient figure to glorify.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

When people say openly that they admire Churchill, it sickens me. He was no better then Hitler.

[Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu]

m'eh all I have to say is that while Churchill is the corporal manifestation of Satan Kim Jong il is the greatest man ever in Ixabert's book.

I still salute Churchill, he may not of had the purest beliefs but he was still a great war leader.

And you call yourself a socialist?