Marxism is Oligarch Astroturf - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15130857
Wellsy wrote:I suspect the last article shared is simply a description of Stalins catastrophic ‘Third Period’.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057%2F9781403907226_2

The zig zagging of the USSR so abrupt and extreme as to give one whiplash seem often explained by domestic problems of the USSR.

Indeed. When he first came to power, Stalin was to the left within the Bolshevik leadership, and adopted a particularly aggressive foreign policy, continuing Lenin's policy of hoping that revolutions in the West would rescue the Soviet Union from its calamitous position. It was only when the Third Period failed so disastrously that Stalin veered rightward and started proclaiming the need for "socialism in one country" and launched the Five Year Plans to industrialise the Soviet Union. These policies were far more successful, though at a terrible human and political cost. Stalin saved the Soviet Union from imminent destruction, but at a price.
#15132575
Republics are oligarch Astroturf, or haven't you been paying attention?
#15136316
https://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/l/e.htm#legitimation
Legitimation literally means “to make lawful”, but social theory recognises that the processes by which an action is deemed “legitimate” are significantly broader than the legal system and are fundamental not only to the power relations in a society but to its relations of production, ideology and belief systems.

For example, by what means is a new scientific theory deemed “legitimate"? Is the author a “scientist” legitimated by an institution which in turn has been legitimated by the state? Has the theory been published in a “learned” journal, and “peer review"? Does the theory fit in with other theories which have been stamped as legitimate, and so on? On top of all this, the theory will never see the light of day without funding for the research in the first place, which involves a whole series of legitimation processes and overt social interests. Knowledge is today more commercialised than ever before

In this way, the social interests deeply penetrate a society’s whole conception of the world. This does not mean however that all knowledge is ideological and relative, for the social interests expressed in knowledge are themselves expressive of the real relations by which human beings engage with Nature. Criticism which discloses the social interests embedded in forms of knowledge and the processes of legitimation does not thereby destroy it but simply discovers the real, human significance of a given theory.
#15143760
Savva Morozov (1862 - 1905) was a Russian textile magnate and philanthropist. The Morozov family was the fifth-richest in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century.

Morozov and his nephew Nikolai Pavlovich Schmidt were significant financial contributors to the Bolshevik faction of the Russian Social Democratic Workers Party, including making payments to the newspaper Iskra.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savva_Morozov


Olof Aschberg (July 22, 1877 – April 21, 1960) - Swedish banker of Jewish descent, head of Stockholm bank Nya Banken (Nya Banken). From August 18, 1922 - Director-General of Roscombank, which was later transformed into Vnesheconombank. Aschberg was a leftist sympathizer and helped finance the Bolsheviks in Russia. In gratitude, the Bolshevik government allowed Aschberg to do business with the Soviet Union during the 1920s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Aschberg



Moneyed sympathisers like Armand, NA Shmidt and Savva Morozov supplemented ‘expropriations’ as a major source of funds for Lenin’s party

Leonid Krasin, a Bolshevik leader responsible for finances, wrote in his memoirs about the years from 1900 up until 1917: "[Among well-off people] it was considered a sign of good taste to donate money to revolutionary parties."
#15143764
@Sivad


Savva Morozov (1862 - 1905) was a Russian textile magnate and philanthropist. The Morozov family was the fifth-richest in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century.

Morozov and his nephew Nikolai Pavlovich Schmidt were significant financial contributors to the Bolshevik faction of the Russian Social Democratic Workers Party, including making payments to the newspaper Iskra.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savva_Morozov


Your link even mentions that Morozov could well have been ''suicided'' by others (and your Krasin you mention is a suspect!), and from what I hear that is even likely. It doesn't surprise me that Savva Morozov was a ''philanthropist''; he was a good ''Old Believer'' from a righteous family; frugal, industrious, generous to others in need, and honest.

It is only as we go deeper into this era and it's amorality that we find it hard to believe such people do sometimes exist.

Nor were he or others like him disloyal to the government of his nation nor the people thereof, from what i've learned.
#15143767
annatar1914 wrote:@Sivad




Your link even mentions that Morozov could well have been ''suicided'' by others (and your Krasin you mention is a suspect!), and from what I hear that is even likely. It doesn't surprise me that Savva Morozov was a ''philanthropist''; he was a good ''Old Believer'' from a righteous family; frugal, industrious, generous to others in need, and honest.

It is only as we go deeper into this era and it's amorality that we find it hard to believe such people do sometimes exist.

Nor were he or others like him disloyal to the government of his nation nor the people thereof, from what i've learned.


What does any of that have to do with the fact that one of the richest men in Russia was financing the Bolsheviks?
#15143770
Sivad wrote:What does any of that have to do with the fact that one of the richest men in Russia was financing the Bolsheviks?


@Sivad

But that's my point. There's suspicion that he wasn't actually financing the Bolsheviks. And that he was actually murdered by one. It's been a cottage industry in Russia in certain circles for more than 300 years now of attributing disloyalty to the ''Raskolniki'' or ''Schismatics'', as they call the ''Old Believers'' (which is not really a term they like to refer to themselves really, but preferable to other words).
#15143772
annatar1914 wrote:@Sivad

But that's my point. There's suspicion that he wasn't actually financing the Bolsheviks. And that he was actually murdered by one. It's been a cottage industry in Russia in certain circles for more than 300 years now of attributing disloyalty to the ''Raskolniki'' or ''Schismatics'', as they call the ''Old Believers'' (which is not really a term they like to refer to themselves really, but preferable to other words).


Nobody disputes the fact that both Morozov and Schmidt financed the Bolsheviks, that's just retarded denial on your part. All you people got is retarded denial because the facts are indisputable and the facts show that Marxism is and always has been oligarch astroturf.
#15143773
Sivad wrote:Nobody disputes the fact that both Morozov and Schmidt financed the Bolsheviks, that's just retarded denial on your part. All you people got is retarded denial because the facts are indisputable and the facts show that Marxism is and always has been oligarch astroturf.


@Sivad ;

Savva Morozov did not fund the Bolsheviks, at all, he was murdered by them because he didn't fund them, even though he got somewhat close to Maxim Gorky and to the man who likely murdered him, Krasin. He broke even those tenuous social ties after ''Bloody Sunday'' (because he hated violence and saw the massacre as a fake provocation), and he apparently got murdered in Cannes, made to look like a suicide. In fact there's one theory that he faked his death in order to get away from these people for good, and assumed the identity of one of his own cousins.

Point being, there's zero evidence Savva gave the Bolsheviks any money whatsoever. And ''Schmidt'' is not an ''Old Believer'' family name.

A lot of where you're getting this is actually from old Bolshevik propaganda ironically, and Nikonian Propaganda also, as I stated earlier.

EDIT; wow, a real sign, today being the commemoration of Saint Savva of Capoddocia, after whom Savva Morozov could well have been named.

Schmidt was somewhat connected to Savva in that Savva's sister was married at one point to Schmidt's father. He died under suspicious circumstances after almost being released from prison after the 1905 Revolution; he was apparently ''suicided'' before his imminent release. But Savva knew everybody in Russia practically, and these connection games are not all that productive. He was a decent man, I won't malign him.
#15143777
Sivad wrote:yeah and the Earth was created 6000 years ago...


@Sivad

Yes, he did not, and you haven't offered proof of that beyond the initial accusation that is usually been dished out about Savva Mozorov.

And the Earth is a bit older than ''6000'' years old. It is actually 7528 years old, although I suspect you might possibly disagree with that.

You know where a lot of these accusations you're getting often come from? From Anti-Semitic literature, that's where. Although as I mentioned some other people are thrown in for good measure.
#15143779
whatever, Morozov definitely funded the Bolsheviks. The guy was best freinds with Gorky, he was fucking Gorky's Bolshevik wife and hiding Krasin in his basement from the political police. Morozov was surrounded by Bolsheviks, he was partying with bolsheviks, he was fucking bolshevik actress bitches, he was funding bolshevik propaganda organs, and he got himself murdered by bolsheviks.
#15143781
annatar1914 wrote:the Earth is a bit older than ''6000'' years old. It is actually 7528 years old

You are going in the right direction but you are still a few years out there.

The Earth is 4.54 billion (+/- 50 million) years old.


:)
#15143790
ingliz wrote:
The Earth is 4.54 billion (+/- 50 million) years old.




This guy had to shoot off a science factoid, his command of 6th grade earth science trivia is what makes him pofo's top mind. :lol:
#15143793
Adolph Abramovich Joffe(10 October 1883 in Simferopol – 16 November 1927 in Moscow) was a Russian revolutionary, a Bolshevik politician and a Soviet diplomat

Joffe was born in Simferopol, Crimea, Russian Empire in a wealthy Karaite family, he used his family's fortune to support Pravda financially.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_Joffe
#15143795
Sivad wrote:a science factoid

Why should anyone take anything @annatar1914 says seriously if he's a young-earth creationist? Magical thinking is for children.

6th-grade earth science trivia

If what you say is true and your children only start being taught the basics in 6th-grade when they should at the very least have a nodding acquaintance with the scientific method long before that, it's no wonder your schools churn out simpletons.


:)
#15143806
ingliz wrote:You are going in the right direction but you are still a few years out there.

The Earth is 4.54 billion (+/- 50 million) years old.


:)


@ingliz

I disagree.

It's a matter of faith, and is also quite reasonable based on the evidence that few get the opportunity to see because it runs counter to the narrative. In any case, I'm not willing to get dragged into an argument on this because you're certainly not going to change your mind nor am I.
#15143811
@Sivad

whatever, Morozov definitely funded the Bolsheviks.


Proof?


The guy was best freinds with Gorky,


Savva Morozov was also friends with Fyodor Dostyoevsky and Tolstoy... And as I said, distanced himself from people like Gorky after the ''Bloody Sunday'' incident when he realized what these people were trying to do with him and his money.


he was fucking Gorky's Bolshevik wife


Proof?

and hiding Krasin in his basement from the political police.


:lol: Krasin likely WAS working with or for the Ohkrana, which is why he was ''suicided'' before he could get out of jail in 1907.

Morozov was surrounded by Bolsheviks


Morozov was surrounded by lots of different people, being the 5th most wealthy man in Russia at the time.

he was partying with bolsheviks


Same response as above.


he was fucking bolshevik actress bitches


If he was, it wasn't because of their politics.

he was funding bolshevik propaganda organs


You've made the old accusation but you haven't shown it.

and he got himself murdered by bolsheviks.


Aside from the theories that he wasn't really murdered, he was murdered because he wouldn't play ball, not because he was, otherwise they would have milked him dry and kept using him.
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